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Changing the locks on a rented house

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  • 17-01-2019 4:28pm
    #1
    ChloeElla
    Registered Users Posts: 289 ✭✭


    We live in a rented property. The house was broken into last night - no sign of forced entry but some things were stolen, the downstairs was turned upside down and a house key was stolen. We contacted the rental agency first thing this morning and requested that the locks are changed. They just phoned back and said that they will not change them as they were changed before we moved in (almost 2 years ago) and the only way the house could have been broken into is if a tenants boyfriend / girlfriend stole a key, or we left doors open.

    Quite honestly I won’t sleep there knowing that someone else has a key. Can we just ring a locksmith and get the locks changed ourselves seeing as we don’t own the house?


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    #2
    Cash_Q
    Registered Users Posts: 1,920 ✭✭✭Cash_Q


    Sorry to hear about the break in. It's my worst nightmare.

    You could ring back and suggest that you will get them changed and cover the cost. I wouldn't go doing it without permission, as it is effectively restricting the landlord/agent from accessing to the property


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    #3
    Doop
    Registered Users Posts: 1,465 ✭✭✭Doop


    ChloeElla wrote: »
    - no sign of forced entry but some things were stolen, the downstairs was turned upside down and a house key was stolen.

    Sure if a key was stolen during the robbery you have to change the locks :confused:. Are you sure the agency is just saying they wont pay for the changing of the locks?

    If it were me I would have the locks changed pay for it myself and send a copy of the key to the agency.


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    #4
    Fol20
    Registered Users Posts: 3,623 ✭✭✭Fol20


    Doop wrote: »
    Sure if a key was stolen during the robbery you have to change the locks :confused:. Are you sure the agency is just saying they wont pay for the changing of the locks?

    If it were me I would have the locks changed pay for it myself and send a copy of the key to the agency.

    Your not able to do something like this without permission from the ll. Depending on ll, this would create a level of distrust between you and ll and i as a ll could force you to pay for my own locksmith to go out and replace it again at your cost. What the agency said might be correct and not tetinf to fob you off. Changing a lock on a door is a 5min job when you have access to it. I have a number of spare locks and rotate them between houses when people move out.

    Beat course of action here if ll is refusing to do it is to contact ll, offer to pay for it yourself and see what they say. Do not change locks without their permission though.


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    #5
    Doop
    Registered Users Posts: 1,465 ✭✭✭Doop


    Fol20 wrote: »
    Your not able to do something like this without permission from the ll. Depending on ll, this would create a level of distrust between you and ll and i as a ll could force you to pay for my own locksmith to go out and replace it again at your cost. What the agency said might be correct and not tetinf to fob you off. Changing a lock on a door is a 5min job when you have access to it. I have a number of spare locks and rotate them between houses when people move out.

    Beat course of action here if ll is refusing to do it is to contact ll, offer to pay for it yourself and see what they say. Do not change locks without their permission though.

    I'm sorry but personal safety is paramount and trumps all. If the tenant is attacked in their own home are you the landlord going to accept liability?

    You will note I did suggest the tenant pay for it themselves.

    Also the underlined section?? haha what planet are you on? you want to force a tenant to change a lock that was just changed even though they are offering you a key ...why? ...as a punishment? You really dont sound like a very professional 'll'.


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    #6
    Fol20
    Registered Users Posts: 3,623 ✭✭✭Fol20


    Doop wrote: »
    I'm sorry but personal safety is paramount and trumps all. If the tenant is attacked in their own home are you the landlord going to accept liability?

    You will note I did suggest the tenant pay for it themselves.

    Also the underlined section?? haha what planet are you on? you want to force a tenant to change a lock that was just changed even though they are offering you a key ...why? ...as a punishment? You really dont sound like a very professional 'll'.

    I wont be accepting liability, this is for the gardai to get involved to see what happens. Likewise if locks have been changed, and someone got into the house without force, this would raise my suspicions of how it happened.

    I am very professional however i have seen the other end of what can happen if not done properly. Thats why i didnt say it cant be done, i just said seek permission first and offer to pay so both come to agreement. Depending on ll, some might be fine with it. Some might request you use their guy to replace. its all dependent on the ll and how easy going they are. At the end of the day, its their property, not the tenants so they cant just modify the property without express permission.

    In my own case, i had a tenant that got their own "local" plumber in to fix a job when they should have told me first. This local plumber was refusing to offer a receipt and i got my own guy to go in and take a look only to find out he did more damage in excess of 500e. Not the same as a door but you get my drift. in the same vain as the OP issue, i have also had a tenant call me at 4 in the morning telling me someone was in the house as the front door was open. Police were called, i got the locked changed same day only to find out later that the tenants boyfriend forgot to close the door. I billed them for this.

    Always ask first.


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    #7
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,625 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    If they fitted cheap cylinders last time (which is very likely), they can be forced open without damage by a process known as bumping. Extremely low quality cylinders can be raked, also leaving no damage. So the line about it having to be a key that opened it is nonsense


  • Options
    #8
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,160 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    Residential Tenancies Act 2004

    Obligations of tenants.
    16.
    ( l) not alter or improve the dwelling without the written consent of the landlord which consent the landlord—

    17.—(1) In section 16 —

    “alter or improve”, in relation to a dwelling, includes—

    ( a) alter a locking system on a door giving entry to the dwelling


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    #9
    Keatsian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 52 ✭✭Keatsian


    Claw Hammer wrote: »
    Residential Tenancies Act 2004

    Obligations of tenants.
    16.
    ( l) not alter or improve the dwelling without the written consent of the landlord which consent the landlord—

    17.—(1) In section 16 —

    “alter or improve”, in relation to a dwelling, includes—

    ( a) alter a locking system on a door giving entry to the dwelling

    That doesn’t really clear things up, because the lock has been compromised but the landlord is refusing to change it. I can’t imagine the intent of the legislation is to force a tenant to accept the property is secure after a key has been stolen.

    A lock with an unaccounted for key following a break-in is to my mind a defective lock - an item in need of repair. If a landlord refuses to repair something within a reasonable timeframe, the tenant is entitled to proceed with the repairs and seek reimbursement from the landlord.

    This is just my interpretation ofc and I’m no legal expert, but assuming I’d already reported the break in and stolen key to the Gardai, I’d go ahead and change the lock if the landlord didn’t immediately do so, and I’d want my money back afterwards.


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    #10
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    Keatsian wrote: »
    If a landlord refuses to repair something within a reasonable timeframe, the tenant is entitled to proceed with the repairs and seek reimbursement from the landlord.

    Where are you getting this from?


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    #11
    Fol20
    Registered Users Posts: 3,623 ✭✭✭Fol20


    Keatsian wrote: »
    That doesn’t really clear things up, because the lock has been compromised but the landlord is refusing to change it. I can’t imagine the intent of the legislation is to force a tenant to accept the property is secure after a key has been stolen.

    A lock with an unaccounted for key following a break-in is to my mind a defective lock - an item in need of repair. If a landlord refuses to repair something within a reasonable timeframe, the tenant is entitled to proceed with the repairs and seek reimbursement from the landlord.

    This is just my interpretation ofc and I’m no legal expert, but assuming I’d already reported the break in and stolen key to the Gardai, I’d go ahead and change the lock if the landlord didn’t immediately do so, and I’d want my money back afterwards.

    Based on what you just said that if a tenant damages something such as a washing machine or fridge - yes this can happen. If the landlord doesnt fix it within a certain timeframe the tenant can do it themself and seek the money back from the ll. Yes this can be done in certain situations however they will need to fight this with the RTB qnd you are running certain risks of having an awful relationship with your ll after it.


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    #12
    Keatsian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 52 ✭✭Keatsian


    4ensic15 wrote: »
    Where are you getting this from?

    It’s in the same act quoted above, in cases where failure to carry out the repairs in a timely fashion poses a “significant risk ... to the health or safety of the tenant or other lawful occupants of the dwelling”

    When a key for the front door is in the hands of a criminal who has already broken in once, I would certainly consider it a significant risk to the tenant.


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    #13
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    Keatsian wrote: »
    It’s in the same act quoted above, in cases where failure to carry out the repairs in a timely fashion poses a “significant risk ... to the health or safety of the tenant or other lawful occupants of the dwelling”

    Link?


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    #14
    Keatsian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 52 ✭✭Keatsian


    Fol20 wrote: »
    Based on what you just said that if a tenant damages something such as a washing machine or fridge - yes this can happen. If the landlord doesnt fix it within a certain timeframe the tenant can do it themself and seek the money back from the ll. Yes this can be done in certain situations however they will need to fight this with the RTB qnd you are running certain risks of having an awful relationship with your ll after it.

    Well, which would you rather risk, possibly maybe having an argument with the landlord, or staying in the house when you know that an intruder has a copy of the front door key?

    A landlord with any sense would be as eager to have the lock changed as the tenant; who wants a criminal having access to their property? However, it seems there is at least one landlord out there with no sense.


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    #15
    Keatsian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 52 ✭✭Keatsian


    4ensic15 wrote: »
    Link?

    No, look it up if you want to read it.


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    #16
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    Keatsian wrote: »
    No, look it up if you want to read it.

    You mean you are making it up.


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    #17
    Keatsian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 52 ✭✭Keatsian


    4ensic15 wrote: »
    You mean you are making it up.

    Yeah, anyone who doesn’t produce links on demand must be “making it up.”

    The name of the act is on here, and I’ve quoted verbatim from it, so it isn’t difficult to track down for anyone who is actually interested.


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    #18
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,436 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Keatsian wrote: »
    No, look it up if you want to read it.

    Generally speaking, the person who makes the claim needs to provide the link to back it up.


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