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Go-Ahead Dublin City Routes - Updates and Discussion
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https://www.goaheadireland.ie/drivers
The exact opposite is true. This page has actually been active for months now. They literally say to 'Drop in' anytime for an interview between 8 to 5pm if you have cat D. Fair to say they have needed, and still need, drivers.
They did have a page up for a while but then they said they had a large amount of interest and closed the application process off for new entries for a fair amount of time.
Then a while after they won additional work, such as the routes that are currently operated by Bus Eireann, they opened the applications process again. It could be that they are recruiting for these routes.
Also I seem to remember someone posting here that they were supplying drivers to help with the low emission bus trials, so if that is the case they'd need more drivers to replace them also.0 -
The 114 timetable is bizarre to say the least!
The last bus from Blackrock leaves at 11:45pm and yet the last bus from Ticknock leaves at 8:25pm (7.25 on sunday)
My guess would that the 20:45, 21:45, 22:45 and 23:45 114 departures will come in operating a 17 before then going back out to operate a 114 when they finish up in Ticknock they'll go back to the depot. The 17 and 114 are to share buses as far as I'm aware like the way the 45a, 75 and 63 all share buses in DL and the 184 and 185 share buses in Bray.0 -
A number of the timetables have been re-designed to work around DART times, it's there in black and white on the Go-Ahead website as well as the Transport for Ireland one.
Don't buy into that at all.
A Dart departs blackrock every 5mins in either direction. Northbound Dart depart xx:x1 every ten while southbound depart xx:x7 for the whole day. The 17 seems to chop and change every 1-3 hours from random morning departures to 04, 24, 44 mins past then onto 19, 39, 59 before going to 14, 34, 54 and then 9, 29, 49, and finally finishing up on a clock face. I don't see where any of this ties in with connecting to Dart. A clockface departure versus the x1 and x7 min Dart would at least give people a chance of making it onto a bus. Its also not a very user friendly timetable with all the changing of times. Even though there is a bus every 20mins or so you'll still need to keep checking as to what time its at.
Given they have timed a bus to depart 1 min before the next one terminates and all the chopping and changing suggests they are dealing with extremely tight margins.0 -
I seen a blue 2003 single decker training bus in Churchtown today with just the L plates on it.
The guy driving was so distracted with them all yapping and laughing he was coming to turn to the left but ended up turning right 1st in the straight ahead lane, no proper indication either and seen very similar yesterday on the same bus actually.
They need to get better training then that.0 -
The first 239 in the morning to Blanch will now leave 28 min later then before. I think this is pretty poor especially when they only released the timetables today ... Not much warning for people who usually get that bus0
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114 seems a little better, especially with the 18:50 from Blackrock, although optimistic in their timings.0
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punisher5112 wrote: »I seen a blue 2003 single decker training bus in Churchtown today with just the L plates on it.
The guy driving was so distracted with them all yapping and laughing he was coming to turn to the left but ended up turning right 1st in the straight ahead lane, no proper indication either and seen very similar yesterday on the same bus actually.
They need to get better training then that.
They can obviously find candidates to be able to pass the test. Remember GAI and DB recruits both take the same tests so obviously they can find candidates that are up to scratch and if their training wasn't up to scratch they wouldn't have drivers passing tests.
I have travelled on GAI buses and haven't noticed any difference in driving quality. I've also been out and about both driving and walking in area with GAI buses and no noticeable difference in standard. Only thing I have seen more of from GAI is more risky behaviour from the driver like letting people on and off at lights or where there is no bus stop.0 -
They can obviously find candidates to be able to pass the test. Remember GAI and DB recruits both take the same tests so obviously they can find candidates that are up to scratch and if their training wasn't up to scratch they wouldn't have drivers passing tests.
I have travelled on GAI buses and haven't noticed any difference in driving quality. I've also been out and about both driving and walking in area with GAI buses and no noticeable difference in standard. Only thing I have seen more of from GAI is more risky behaviour from the driver like letting people on and off at lights or where there is no bus stop.
Stephen 15 that's totally fine and that's your opinion I'm just stating what I see and have seen.
I am very experienced in this game and notice a lot.
I've had quite a few near misses and even had to show the instructors on numerous occasions that they should be moving over or giving more space as they tendvtp have them out very far and then driving at us.
Not all bad of course but I do feel they could be given more time and prepare them better.0 -
punisher5112 wrote: »Stephen 15 that's totally fine and that's your opinion I'm just stating what I see and have seen.
I am very experienced in this game and notice a lot.
I've had quite a few near misses and even had to show the instructors on numerous occasions that they should be moving over or giving more space as they tendvtp have them out very far and then driving at us.
Not all bad of course but I do feel they could be given more time and prepare them better.
I don't know what their trainers are like but they're actual passenger service buses seem mostly fine I don't why they're still out though as they haven't been recruiting B licence holders since the summer could be mechanics perhaps. I'm sure not all their drivers are good but the majority seem like with I'm sure your an excellent driver but that doesn't mean all your other DB colleagues are but yes I'd agree that most are excellent but that doesn't you don't get a few bad eggs.
Most drivers are excellent but sometimes you get a driver who likes to drive too fast so he can finish his shift quicker I'd assume or sometimes they drive ridiculously slow in order to waste time so they can probably finish their shift. Also some like to brake harshly or get caught napping at the light but that's a minority and I appreciate mistakes are made by everyone.
I do think it's great that GAI operated routes actually have a timetable that has to be kept to and drivers have to pull in and wait mid route if their early at a timing this needs to be rolled out to DB. Also in London buses actually have to keep a headway this should be rolled on cross city routes as DB seem to nothing to prevent bus bunching.0 -
I don't know what their trainers are like but they're actual passenger service buses seem mostly fine I don't why they're still out though as they haven't been recruiting B licence holders since the summer could be mechanics perhaps. I'm sure not all their drivers are good but the majority seem like with I'm sure your an excellent driver but that doesn't mean all your other DB colleagues are but yes I'd agree that most are excellent but that doesn't you don't get a few bad eggs.
Most drivers are excellent but sometimes you get a driver who likes to drive too fast so he can finish his shift quicker I'd assume or sometimes they drive ridiculously slow in order to waste time so they can probably finish their shift. Also some like to brake harshly or get caught napping at the light but that's a minority and I appreciate mistakes are made by everyone.
I do think it's great that GAI operated routes actually have a timetable that has to be kept to and drivers have to pull in and wait mid route if their early at a timing this needs to be rolled out to DB. Also in London buses actually have to keep a headway this should be rolled on cross city routes as DB seem to nothing to prevent bus bunching.
Bunching is inevitable.
Dublin city is so poor when it comes to bus priority as in there really isn't any.
Bus stops blocked or in no way adequate to even take one bus, vehicles parked anywhere and everywhere, bus lanes blocked, yellow box areas to allow buses out blocked or done so on purpose so bus can't get out.
Bus gate and bus only streets and turns used by anyone ....
So much could be done.0 -
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punisher5112 wrote: »Bunching is inevitable.
Dublin city is so poor when it comes to bus priority as in there really isn't any.
Bus stops blocked or in no way adequate to even take one bus, vehicles parked anywhere and everywhere, bus lanes blocked, yellow box areas to allow buses out blocked or done so on purpose so bus can't get out.
Bus gate and bus only streets and turns used by anyone ....
So much could be done.
Yes I agree that bunching is somewhat inevitable especially around peak times but that doesn't mean that something can't to mitigate it. London has still has bus bunching. For example I regularly see two or more 145s or 46as along the N11 corridor and this is off peak no reason why controller couldn't tell one of the drivers to pull in for five minutes and let the bus ahead move on and transfer the passengers on to the bus ahead if there's room.
I agree the city centre is a bit of a joke but bus shouldn't be bus bunching off peak in the suburbs.0 -
Anyone know if the 18 is switching to Go-ahead? I remember when this was all first announced the 18 was going to be one of the routes changing, in January 2019. But now there's nothing about it?0
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Good lord. I have done my bit of reading on the new 114 TT. I'm really scratching my head here in how to get around this stuff because the times going out for the night time departures from Rockview is absolutely stupid stuff. Residents who who want to go from Rockview are completely stuffed in getting any bus from 8:25pm from Monday to Satruday night & from early as 7:25pm on Sunday night.
Even the morning departures on any day of the week are all over the place with this new TT. It is a bloody nightmare for both commuters & students alike.
Are the NTA not forgetting that there are hoardes of people coming in from the DART actually heading to Sandyford early in the morning. Anyone who is working on an executive grade in the Sandyford area will have to rely on limited bus services from Executive Express from Blackrock to Leopardstown in the mornings now more than ever. The demand for that route will be absolutely nuts come next Monday morning when going from Blackrock Station.
The current first bus from either Blackrock or Ticknock Hill on the 114 with Dublin Bus is at 7:10am.
The new 114 TT from this Sunday by the NTA offers the first bus on M-F's from Rockview at 6:10am & from Blackrock at 7:50am. In whatever way that this new TT is interpreted by the NTA. People will no way be happy with the outcome at all on the 114 if they have to rely on Taxis, lifts or drive up to work/school first thing in the morning if you can't get the 114 early on weekday mornings when departing from Blackrock Station.0 -
punisher5112 wrote: »Bunching is inevitable.
Dublin city is so poor when it comes to bus priority as in there really isn't any.
Bunching is not inevitable.
Late running is inevitable unfortunately, given the lack of traffic management as you have mentioned.
However the early running of the following buses is entirely the fault of the driver and supervisors who fail to regulate the operations.
Controllers should instruct drivers that the bus ahead is behind schedule and following buses should slow down and not run ahead of schedule.
What we have now in Dublin Bus is a free for all, reminiscent of the pirate buses of 1920s and early 30s.
The bus in front gets delayed because it has extra passengers boarding. The following bus gets close, so has very few passengers offering, thus speeds up catching the bus in front.
This is why on busy routes like the 46A, you often have three buses in convoy, leapfrogging at stops.
It means that you have two or three buses in twenty minutes, instead of a regular service, thus driving passengers into cars, or choosing DART or Luas.0 -
dublinman1990 wrote: »Good lord. I have done my bit of reading on the new 114 TT. I'm really scratching my head here in how to get around this stuff because the times going out for the night time departures from Rockview is absolutely stupid stuff. Residents who who want to go from Rockview are completely stuffed in getting any bus from 8:25pm from Monday to Satruday night & from early as 7:25pm on Sunday night.
Even the morning departures on any day of the week are all over the place with this new TT. It is a bloody nightmare for both commuters & students alike.
Are the NTA not forgetting that there are hoardes of people coming in from the DART actually heading to Sandyford early in the morning. Anyone who is working on an executive grade in the Sandyford area will have to rely on limited bus services from Executive Express from Blackrock to Leopardstown in the mornings now more than ever. The demand for that route will be absolutely nuts come next Monday morning when going from Blackrock Station.
The current first bus from either Blackrock or Ticknock Hill on the 114 with Dublin Bus is at 7:10am.
The new 114 TT from this Sunday by the NTA offers the first bus on M-F's from Rockview at 6:10am & from Blackrock at 7:50am. In whatever way that this new TT is interpreted by the NTA. People will no way be happy with the outcome at all on the 114 if they have to rely on Taxis, lifts or drive up to work/school first thing in the morning if you can't get the 114 early on weekday mornings when departing from Blackrock Station.
This is more than simple interpretation.
The NTA (and GAI under the transition clauses of the BAC 2014 DAC) have direct access to any and all records of these routes,particularly the Wayfarer validations,which will have provided them with very accurate data streams regarding commutes.
There are VAST amounts of Data,both real-time and historical,to allow schedulers and op's managers to seamlessly transition to new operators.
Recent experience shows that the Authority,apparently keen to minimise any element of BAC involvement,is quite prepared to allow GAI to take the flak from the inevitable Public reaction.
I'm uncertain how much longer GAI's senior management will play along with this strategy,as it does raise the prospect of longer running reputational damage to the parent group.
From what you are saying,the situation at Blackrock early next Monday morning could be quite serious,unless there is some form of plan "B",as yet unannounced ?
We have already seen,in the Bray area,a very real last-minute sticking-plaster response to hitherto accomodated School journeys,so perhaps this will materialize here too ?
From my own perspective,I fear the NTA are relying on their original BMO plan,which has been somewhat overtaken by events in national economic terms.
A less dogmatic Authority might have responded by altering the thrust of their BMO plan from a recession based model,to an expansionary one.
The simplest way to have achieved this would have been to leave the 2014 BAC route structure as it was,and instead to devise 24 NEW routes to be tendered.
This would have neatly avoided the "handover" issues and also opened up new connections to further integrate the Authorities BusConnects principle.
The Dublin region would easily have allowed for new Bus Travel opportunities,which,for example would have neatly sidestepped the internal historical CIE issues surrounding destinations such as Ashbourne,Naas,Dunshoughlin,Newcastle etc.
This form of expansion based BMO was strongly recommended by the multi-agency report submitted to Transport Minister Mary O Rourke way back in 1996/97,which recommended a Capital Bus Fleet expansion from 1000 to c.1,500 vehicles,with planned expansion annually of c 100 vehicles allocated on a % basis between Private Sector and CIE.
However,we are where we are,and the Authority appears very willing to remain aloof from the reality of stuff,such as the 17 predictions in order to maintain the sanctity of whatever scheduling programmes they currently prefer ?
Unless some saner counsel prevails,the current process could still go very awry.:(Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.
Charles Mackay (1812-1889)
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There are VAST amounts of Data,both real-time and historical,to allow schedulers and op's managers to seamlessly transition to new operators.
I think there are issues but I do think they are beginning to mitigate somewhat with the recent timetable revisions to the DL routes and the 175. Any major change to the way public transport services have been operated in Dublin have proven problematic this has been the case with Network Direct and more recently the introduction of Luas Cross City services and the introduction of 10 minute Dart service and revisions to other timetables with Irish Rail.Recent experience shows that the Authority,apparently keen to minimise any element of BAC involvement,is quite prepared to allow GAI to take the flak from the inevitable Public reaction.
I'm uncertain how much longer GAI's senior management will play along with this strategy,as it does raise the prospect of longer running reputational damage to the parent group.
It's hard to know but I'm sure they're prepared to suffer reputational damage considering the issues they have had with TfL contracted bus services and the issues at Southern Rail many of which are outside their hands.From what you are saying,the situation at Blackrock early next Monday morning could be quite serious,unless there is some form of plan "B",as yet unannounced ?
We have already seen,in the Bray area,a very real last-minute sticking-plaster response to hitherto accomodated School journeys,so perhaps this will materialize here too ?
We'll have to wait and see what the story is. We have seen extra departures and changes to timetables already on routes 45a, 59, 63, 75, 111 and 175 so if there's issues with 114 I could see changes being made fairly soon and with relative ease.
The issues in Bray were due to single deckers being allocated to the 184 but it appears that the 114 will be solely operated by double decker vehicles so I can't see capacity issues in relation to the size of the buses used. The reintroduction of single deckers was a good one in theory but it's been poorly implemented.
The buses seem to be of a poor standard of built qualityand have a lack of standing capacity aswell as being wheelchair unfriendly due to steep ramps and cramped wheelchair areas. They are also too long so can't operate routes which are suitable for single deck operation such as the 59 and it appears now the 161 aswell. They should have bought either full size single with a Volvo B8RLE chassis or midibuses similar to the Streetlites in currently in use on the 44b or a mixture of both.
The Streetlites they have are full length single deckers with a midibus engine and chassis that has been lengthened.A less dogmatic Authority might have responded by altering the thrust of their BMO plan from a recession based model,to an expansionary one.
The simplest way to have achieved this would have been to leave the 2014 BAC route structure as it was,and instead to devise 24 NEW routes to be tendered.
This would have neatly avoided the "handover" issues and also opened up new connections to further integrate the Authorities BusConnects principle.
The theory is I'm guessing is that there is more demand for service increases on existing routes than there is for the introduction of new services. There is some logic to the thinking of Jarrett Walker appears to favour fewer routes operating more frequently rather than a large quantity of infrequent routes. So are you suggesting Go-Ahead should be operating 20 other new routes on top of operating new routes such as the 40e, 66e, 155 and 175.
I don't we need more routes apart from the ones already introduced but rather existing routes should be beefed up and other routes changed like what BC proposes.The Dublin region would easily have allowed for new Bus Travel opportunities,which,for example would have neatly sidestepped the internal historical CIE issues surrounding destinations such as Ashbourne,Naas,Dunshoughlin,Newcastle etc.
Are you suggesting Dublin city bus services should expand to the areas you mentioned? There is certainly demand for new journey being serviced but that could be done to some extent at the expense of existing inefficient bus routes and in addition to efficient bus routes and this could be done by changing current inefficient routes to make them more efficient.0 -
Bunching is not inevitable.
Late running is inevitable unfortunately, given the lack of traffic management as you have mentioned.
However the early running of the following buses is entirely the fault of the driver and supervisors who fail to regulate the operations.
Controllers should instruct drivers that the bus ahead is behind schedule and following buses should slow down and not run ahead of schedule.
What we have now in Dublin Bus is a free for all, reminiscent of the pirate buses of 1920s and early 30s.
The bus in front gets delayed because it has extra passengers boarding. The following bus gets close, so has very few passengers offering, thus speeds up catching the bus in front.
This is why on busy routes like the 46A, you often have three buses in convoy, leapfrogging at stops.
It means that you have two or three buses in twenty minutes, instead of a regular service, thus driving passengers into cars, or choosing DART or Luas.
You see the smarter DB drivers, whether they should or not, or are even allowed, when bunching happens, skip stops where no stopping bell is pressed, as they know the follow bus will pick them up. This used to be common enough practice from observation, although has become less and less, from observation.0 -
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You see the smarter DB drivers, whether they should or not, or are even allowed, when bunching happens, skip stops where no stopping bell is pressed, as they know the follow bus will pick them up. This used to be common enough practice from observation, although has become less and less, from observation.
I've had that happen to me a few times. It's happened with buses that follow similar but slightly different routes and it's not smart, it's a pain in the ass.0 -
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You see the smarter DB drivers, whether they should or not, or are even allowed, when bunching happens, skip stops where no stopping bell is pressed, as they know the follow bus will pick them up. This used to be common enough practice from observation, although has become less and less, from observation.
Often in these cases the bus would operate on a set down only basis displaying OOS this I believe was something which was ordered by controllers and was usually in order to keep the bus running on schedule rather than maintaining a headway or get the bus to the terminus in time for an outbound journey.
Routes like the 15, 27, 40, 46a and 145's priority should be maintaining a headway rather than keeping to a timetable.0 -
[QUOTE=Stephen15;109153543]Often in these cases the bus would operate on a set down only basis displaying OOS this I believe was something which was ordered by controllers and was usually in order to keep the bus running on schedule rather than maintaining a headway or get the bus to the terminus in time for an outbound journey.
Routes like the 15, 27, 40, 46a and 145's priority should be maintaining a headway rather than keeping to a timetable.[/QUOTE]
This is most definitely NOT acceptable.
It is not catered for,either in PSV regulations or in Contractual provisions and is most definitely a practice which needs to cease,and should never have been allowed develop in the first place.
Section 45 (8) of the RTA 1963 (SI 191/1963) imposes the following duty upon the conductor/driver of a large PSV in service..(8) He shall take all reasonable precautions to ensure that the means provided for indicating the route, the fares and the destination of the vehicle are clearly and correctly displayed and that any current time-table provided is available for inspection on demand.
In addition schedule 19 of the 2014 PSO contract also outlines the penalties applicable should a mis-scrolled bus be recorded by the NTA's Mystery Shopper contractors.
There is long established Service Control precedent in place for dealing with such issues,but all involve actual regulation by the supervisor,which in other functional systems,entails passengers being transferred to another vehicle.
GAI,it should be noted,also fell foul of the regulation early on in the Bray/Dun Laoighre area,whereby passengers were decamped onto the roadway to await a folowing service,this is equally unacceptable,as the service being regulated must always conduct an actual transfer of passengers to the supporting vehicle.
Both companies really need to get their regulation systems back into fit-for-purpose mode,as this O/O/S (In Service) is definitely NOT a desireable method to be following.Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.
Charles Mackay (1812-1889)
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Just a general question on RTI displays at bus stops. Do they display information for Dublin Bus services only or are they supposed to include times for Go-Ahead services too ?0
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I was referring to buses where the route was identical eg 145 etc. In your scenario it is a pain in the ass and is weird they would not operate as normal unless the driver presumed (incorrectly) that the route variation was not where people wanted to go.AlmightyCushion wrote: »I've had that happen to me a few times. It's happened with buses that follow similar but slightly different routes and it's not smart, it's a pain in the ass.
The ones I was thinking of where not displaying OOS, they still had the route number but were pretty full and had an empty bus or two only a minute behind. Either way it done the job regardless, they only stopped for dropoffs (but would collect if someone was there, but passed by if there were people waiting as there was a bus with more space behind.Often in these cases the bus would operate on a set down only basis displaying OOS this I believe was something which was ordered by controllers and was usually in order to keep the bus running on schedule rather than maintaining a headway or get the bus to the terminus in time for an outbound journey.
Routes like the 15, 27, 40, 46a and 145's priority should be maintaining a headway rather than keeping to a timetable.
Maybe they should have had OOS but they were still doing pick ups if they did stop, although the driver would often tell people there was a bus behind if they only dropped of one or two.
I haven't seen it in ages though so maybe no longer happens.
Agreed on the 145 and 46A etc. which is what i presumed they tried to do, hence why they had empty turnarounds at UCD etc. To clear space for when buses were full.0 -
NUTLEY BOY wrote: »Just a general question on RTI displays at bus stops. Do they display information for Dublin Bus services only or are they supposed to include times for Go-Ahead services too ?
Both GAI and DB services. Also BE services in some locations.0 -
Can anyone inform me as to what the current state of play is, regarding the future of the 44B?
The BusConnects report says
Options for this mostly rural area to be examined as part of the
overall consideration of consultation feedback.
Have there been any developments on this matter?
Thanks0 -
NUTLEY BOY wrote: »Just a general question on RTI displays at bus stops. Do they display information for Dublin Bus services only or are they supposed to include times for Go-Ahead services too ?
the new RTPI app also includes Luas stops so can be monitored as well0 -
Seen single deckers running the 161 today and other ones apparently doing the route for I presume training and familiarization. The color scheme looks great on the single deckers I think.0
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Seen single deckers running the 161 today and other ones apparently doing the route for I presume training and familiarization. The color scheme looks great on the single deckers I think.
Interesting I was under the impression that the 161 was to be operated by double deckers according to a GAI tweet anyway.0 -
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There are some great changes coming as part of this phase.
At a glance:
Route 17 - Gets a big increase in departures especially on Sunday where it’s up from 8 departures per day to almost 30. ...
This is extremely disappointing if true and nothing like the increased frequency touted a couple of pages back. The late evening and Sunday service on this route is a joke. Has there been a scale back of plans due to lack of drivers or something?Route 17 Blackrock to Rialto via University College Dublin (UCD) & Dundrum
Route 17 will continue to operate every half hour and serves the following key locations along its routing: Blackrock DART Station, UCD campus, Dundrum, Nutgrove, Terenure, Kimmage, Dolphin’s Barn and Rialto. There are additional morning peak departures on Monday to Friday and one additional morning and evening departure on Sundays.Timetables now online
https://www.transportforireland.ie/go-ahead-ireland/
Liking the 220 and 239 new timetables
Well, I'm delighted to see that the new 17 timetable does in fact see significant frequency increases as KD345 stated it would last week - every 20 mins Mon-Sat up to 6pm and every 30 mins evenings and Sunday.
Its very odd how the press release statement segment about this route on the Go-Ahead Ireland website is blatantly incorrect. Anyway, this is going to make my Sunday travels in particular much easier.0
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