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America is over for irish/europeans?

  • 08-11-2018 10:00pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 431 ✭✭mammajamma


    Its a broad title, but generally speaking has the allure of the United States just simply worn off Irish people by now (and by extension, most developed nations)

    Among younger nieces and nephews, their reaction to the United States is "no, not ever interested in going there". When I think back in time (not too long ago even), the united states was almost like a "must-do" for irish people, even if only for a holiday or a j1 kind of thing.

    Not bringing anything about left or right, or republican/democrat into it specifically, is it just simply that the United States is such a divided and broken place now?

    Even discounting the propaganda effect of the 80's and 90's, is it just seen as a washed up place now? Obviously our country has become wealthier over time, but I think theres more to it than that.

    Its the impression I get. I spent several years living there, and I can truthfully say I have no desire ever to go back. Not because of one particular government or anything, it just seems like such a hateful place to live now, everyone on top of everyone about every little bloody thing, everythings an "issue" and "problematic".

    Imagine the idea of rearing children there, eeesh! Anyone else have the same inkling, especially from younger people? Or completely different point of view?


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 16,100 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    Sheesh, hadn't heard that. Going over next August, for the first time. I hope it's still open...


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,421 ✭✭✭ToddyDoody


    mammajamma wrote: »
    Its a broad title, but generally speaking has the allure of the United States just simply worn off Irish people by now (and by extension, most developed nations)

    Absolutely not in the slightest, in my opinion.

    While people may not be travelling there to live like they once did, perhaps, there is no doubt in my mind that, like it or not, American culture / technology / imagination is more prevalent than it ever was.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,584 ✭✭✭Frank O. Pinion


    More important than most other things, causal sex in America is much better than in Ireland. Worth a visit for that alone.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,547 ✭✭✭Agricola


    If you were fairly well off, living on the west coast, nice climate, house, car, insulated from the Hunger Games type society they have there, it would be a good life. Would I go there with nothing but the American Dream™? Not a hope.


  • Registered Users Posts: 80,795 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn


    Tell that to the clowns watching The Kardashians and putting on Beverly Hills 90210 accents when they are actually from the posh part of Tallaght.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,048 ✭✭✭✭Grandeeod


    mammajamma wrote: »
    Its a broad title, but generally speaking has the allure of the United States just simply worn off Irish people by now (and by extension, most developed nations)

    Among younger nieces and nephews, their reaction to the United States is "no, not ever interested in going there". When I think back in time (not too long ago even), the united states was almost like a "must-do" for irish people, even if only for a holiday or a j1 kind of thing.

    Not bringing anything about left or right, or republican/democrat into it specifically, is it just simply that the United States is such a divided and broken place now?

    Even discounting the propaganda effect of the 80's and 90's, is it just seen as a washed up place now? Obviously our country has become wealthier over time, but I think theres more to it than that.

    Its the impression I get. I spent several years living there, and I can truthfully say I have no desire ever to go back. Not because of one particular government or anything, it just seems like such a hateful place to live now, everyone on top of everyone about every little bloody thing, everythings an "issue" and "problematic".

    Imagine the idea of rearing children there, eeesh! Anyone else have the same inkling, especially from younger people? Or completely different point of view?

    Well now, judging by this little forum in the scheme of things, the bolded bit is just like little old Ireland right now.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,969 ✭✭✭Assetbacked


    US is an example of unrestrained capitalism where morals are putrid, the people are self-absorbed and narcissistic beyond belief, inequality is astounding, racism is epidemic, intelligence is low on a wide scale and the beacon of depravity is lit bright.

    The greatest threat to world peace and should not be pandered to by our spineless, idiot politicians.


  • Registered Users Posts: 431 ✭✭mammajamma


    Grandeeod wrote: »
    Well now, judging by this little forum in the scheme of things, the bolded bit is just like little old Ireland right now.

    I get pissed off with a lot of American culture, especially having had to live in it for years. So its one of those semi-ironic things.

    I cant think of anything worse than Ireland becoming like America. American society is kicking up a ruckus BECAUSE of the problems it has allowed develop.

    The way I see it, its better to kick up a ruckus here BEFORE we have those same divisive problems. Ireland is always following the American lead in society, and its a disaster in the making. Theres still time to learn lessons from others mistakes.

    Some people, however, just cant see problems until they have already deeply rooted themselves. Its kind of maddening.

    But back on point, I still think the United States has fallen off a cliff in attraction for younger people here.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    Its not all that bad. Most americans are just good people trying to make the best life they can for their family, just like most countries. Its still a very popular place for irish to visit, most people I know went travelling all along the west coast of the US last summer (im in college)


  • Registered Users Posts: 431 ✭✭mammajamma


    US is an example of unrestrained capitalism where morals are putrid, the people are self-absorbed and narcissistic beyond belief, inequality is astounding, racism is epidemic, intelligence is low on a wide scale and the beacon of depravity is lit bright.

    The greatest threat to world peace and should not be pandered to by our spineless, idiot politicians.

    Its lost control of itself, and I just don't see any reasonable way its going to get back on track. Extreme ways, maybe.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,031 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    In reality, "on the ground", everything is the same as ever. People say hello to each other, help people out and get along just fine for the most part. Yes, it seems that hateful opinions and incidents are on the rise but the vast vast majority of people are just normal folk going about their lives with no chips on their shoulders. I find people here way friendlier and open than in Ireland tbh.

    The US still has a lot more to offer people than many other countries in the world and that isn't going to change anytime soon


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,813 ✭✭✭Noveight


    If I remember correctly Louis Theroux did an insightful documentary on how half the population are medicated up to their eyeballs.

    Kinda takes the shine off the American Dream but it's still somewhere I'll visit in time.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,048 ✭✭✭✭Grandeeod


    Apologies folks. I really thought my bolded quote up thread was tuning in to the anti dole gang that frequent here.:D
    it just seems like such a hateful place to live now, everyone on top of everyone about every little bloody thing, everythings an "issue" and "problematic.

    Obviously having a night off and missing the comparison.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,700 ✭✭✭Mountainsandh


    wakka12 wrote: »
    Its not all that bad. Most americans are just good people trying to make the best life they can for their family, just like most countries. Its still a very popular place for irish to visit, most people I know went travelling all along the west coast of the US last summer (im in college)

    I went to the West coast twice, and would love to go back to discover other places there if I could afford it.

    There's more to America than all the bad stuff we see and hear about. I've found the people lovely and friendly, I love all the wacky-ness, the scenery, and ... yes... the patriotism (if you just look at the positive sides of it).

    I love that they celebrate people being their own eccentric selves.

    I know the flip side of all of the above (except for the scenery) is also America's downfall, it's very sad, but so far for me, it's not dampening my enthusiasm as a tourist.

    Not sure I'd like my children to go live there though, and don't think I'd like it either.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    US is an example of unrestrained capitalism where morals are putrid, the people are self-absorbed and narcissistic beyond belief, inequality is astounding, racism is epidemic, intelligence is low on a wide scale and the beacon of depravity is lit bright.

    The greatest threat to world peace and should not be pandered to by our spineless, idiot politicians.

    Why is everyone so harsh on the US? Especially on boards?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_homeless_population
    Homeless rate the same as every other first world country

    Inequality rate
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equality
    Worse than all EU nations but still better than many other non third world nations like china brazil argentina and chile

    Racism
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/10061025/Worlds-most-racially-intolerant-countries-mapped.html
    Less racist country than france, italy, poland, russia, finland

    Why does everyone care so much about USA? Obsessed with saying its the worst place in the world, when its betetr place to live than most places, even if youre a black gay poor woman, Im sure if most countries were so scrutinised in every worst aspect of their society by international media then most countries would looklike horrible countries filled with horrible people

    Case in point is that when that new brazilian president starts coming out with crazy notions and campaigns international media will barely care about it compared to how the world goes crazy for every insignificant tweet donal trump posts


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,761 ✭✭✭Effects


    when they are actually from the posh part of Tallaght.

    Firhouse?


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,034 ✭✭✭mad muffin


    I was in New York recently visiting my grandad. Couldn’t get over the state of the place. Potholes everywhere. Garbage piles everywhere. The stench of the place was overwhelming.

    Everything was dirty and rundown. I suppose when people want to pay minimal tax there’s not enough money for the upkeep and maintenance of the city.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,276 ✭✭✭kenmc


    If I never had to set foot in America again, I'd be fine with that. I did the J1 there, 95 I think, and numerous business trips since, could never imagine living there. Can't see myself ever going there voluntarily again. I could see myself living in China, India, Thailand etc much easier than ever living in America.

    Was in NJ and pa in june, and the first piece of fresh fruit I saw was in my kitchen when I got home.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,492 ✭✭✭ArnoldJRimmer


    Having lived here for the last seven years, I was going to comment that the Irish media is overly negative about the US, looks like a lot of posters on this thread are too

    Its really not that bad people. Like Ireland, it has its good and bad points. If you're willing and able to work, you can be successful (good thing). If you fall on hard times or become ill, not such a pleasant place (bad thing). There are still plenty of opportunities for young people here, both for work and having the craic.

    Mostly though, its a fcuking massive and diverse country, life is a lot different in Austin than the south side of Chicago for example. Or any of the rural areas in the midwest versus the east coast.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    mad muffin wrote: »
    I was in New York recently visiting my grandad. Couldn’t get over the state of the place. Potholes everywhere. Garbage piles everywhere. The stench of the place was overwhelming.

    Everything was dirty and rundown. I suppose when people want to pay minimal tax there’s not enough money for the upkeep and maintenance of the city.

    Going back to the 70s? Excellent, we'll get some great music and films soon!

    Seriously though the social and built infrastructure of the USA is in a parlous condition.


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  • Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ Daniel Whining Nitpicker


    Went to New York a few years back, absolutely hated it, no desire to return ever. The people are a large part of the reason why. Everybody was miserable and even more zombie like than Dublin.

    Everything was driven by money, again even more so than here.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,184 ✭✭✭riclad


    ireland is Booming ,why go to america to get an average job.
    IF you get sick and you don,t have good health insurance ,
    it,ll cost a fortune, to get medical care .
    At least in ireland , there are not mass shootings every month .
    There seems to be floods , hurricanes , every month in america.
    We have fast internet, cable tv , the only thing america has over ireland is good weather ,sunshine .
    American infrastructure ,roads ,bridges are neglected ,
    so they can give more tax cuts to the rich, and buy more nuclear weapons.
    America is more corrupt under trumps government,
    the laws are written for the rich and large corporations.
    one example, they passed a law so isps can sell anyones browsing history to advertisers .
    so f u to consumers privacey.
    it.s the land of the free , where people go to jail cos they cant pay for bail, or for just smoking hash .

    In the 70,s and the 80s, america looked great ,compared
    with ireland where we had 3 tv stations ,
    3 or 4 radio stations .
    Now we have fast internet, 100,s of tv stations and music streaming
    on phones .
    we have caught up with america in regard to tech and media.
    So why go there .
    Why support an extreme conservative with your dollars ?
    The average person is more free in ireland than someone in the us .
    I,m not saying its a bad country to live in, IF you have a good job and are earning a high salary .
    I,M not sure if the social structure or the economy or the environment in america can survive on another 5 years of trump government.
    There,s a limit of how much even the american government can borrow .


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,592 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    Totally agree OP, absolutely zero interest in going there


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,310 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    Been to a few spots and didn't like it. Nothing specific it just sets me on edge or something. That said i had a grand time in nyc


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,744 ✭✭✭irishguitarlad


    I'd like to visit and see the place but I would never live there, happy out on mainland Europe.




  • Nah, it hasn't ceased to exist overnight according to reliable sources.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 23 mikhail gorbachev2


    I would move to America tomorrow but all my commitments are in europe,
    maybe when retired go to Texas for 2 weeks on a ranch


  • Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    I go once a year on average, as do many friends.
    No-one I know have been discouraged because of the current administration.
    Wouldn't move there thought, Ireland is best.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,066 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    mammajamma wrote: »
    I get pissed off with a lot of American culture, especially having had to live in it for years. So its one of those semi-ironic things.

    I cant think of anything worse than Ireland becoming like America. American society is kicking up a ruckus BECAUSE of the problems it has allowed develop.

    The way I see it, its better to kick up a ruckus here BEFORE we have those same divisive problems. Ireland is always following the American lead in society, and its a disaster in the making. Theres still time to learn lessons from others mistakes.

    Some people, however, just cant see problems until they have already deeply rooted themselves. Its kind of maddening.

    But back on point, I still think the United States has fallen off a cliff in attraction for younger people here.

    I don't think the politics matter. As in I seem to get the impression that you're saying it's the whole tea party on one side and SJW's on the other. And it's those politics that I don't think matter too much.

    I'm just back from a month there, in California, and I would never move there. The people are generally very nice. I didn't see any of the culture war crap that people go on about online. There's so much poverty. I saw people who were obviously sick on the sides of the street. It struck me as a country that doesn't care. It's a place where the dollar rules above all else. If you happen to be well off you can have a good life but otherwise it's just horrible.
    It's weird though, even the tech people I worked with, who all own new teslas, thought they weren't well off. Silicon Valley is weird though. I know graduates who turned down 120k a year because they got offered more elsewhere. And yet there are people with minimum wage struggling to get by. I have no idea how locals actually afford to live there at all.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,942 ✭✭✭topper75


    Went to New York a few years back, absolutely hated it, no desire to return ever. The people are a large part of the reason why. Everybody was miserable and even more zombie like than Dublin.

    Everything was driven by money, again even more so than here.

    Why oh why oh why do Irish go to one of the eastern cities and think they have seen America?

    They are ludicrously unrepresentative of the rural interior. If you want to see America - go south or west, or ideally both. There is nowhere like it on earth. Mindblowing.


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