Can Trump be stopped?

jaykay74 wrote: »

Do you think Pfizer who are in a multi billion dollar race against other vaccine manufacturers just held back on announcing they had made significant progress on the road to the vaccine ? That seems a bit of a mental angle to take to be honest.

Pfizer made an anouncement about 6 weeks ago that it had made progress with the vaccine but will not be giving any updates until after the election. They had no interest in playing politics

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

How did Bush senior handle it ? Did he deny defeat and launch hundreds of lawsuits? Or did he accept defeat and leave of his own accord.

Leaving because he runs out of support for denying thyroid result from his own side, isn’t leaving of his own accord. It’s leaving because hew forced out. What he’s doing, has never happened before in the US. A clearly defeated candidate refusing to accept the result, isn’t “leaving of his own accord”

he blamed his AG for inciting the riots in LA . Wonder what ever became of the lad

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

How did Bush senior handle it ? Did he deny defeat and launch hundreds of lawsuits? Or did he accept defeat and leave of his own accord.

Leaving because he runs out of support for denying thyroid result from his own side, isn’t leaving of his own accord. It’s leaving because hew forced out. What he’s doing, has never happened before in the US. A clearly defeated candidate refusing to accept the result, isn’t “leaving of his own accord”

Bush v Clinton wasn't even close, had Biden won by the same margin Trump would have little choice but to concede, but, it was close enough in a handful of states for him to drag this out. Don't worry he'll be out in January one way or another, what he's doing now is all for show. Btw I'm not a Trump supporter, just sick of all the hysteria that he's not going to go

Girly Gal wrote: »

Bush v Clinton wasn't even close, had Biden won by the same margin Trump would have little choice but to concede, but, it was close enough in a handful of states for him to drag this out. Don't worry he'll be out in January one way or another, what he's doing now is all for show. Btw I'm not a Trump supporter, just sick of all the hysteria that he's not going to go

but according to trump it was a landslide.

i love the ould i'm not a trump supporter but....

Girly Gal wrote: »

Just as Trump can't dismiss or disregard the 76 million who voted for Biden, you can't just dismiss the 70 million who voted for Trump as either fascist, stupid or not bothered caring enough, because they didn't vote how you liked, politics is made up of differing views. The vast majority of those 70 million are ordinary decent Americans who were either happy with what the Trump administration were doing or didn't like what the alternative offered, just because you don't agree with them doesn't mean you can dismiss them or shut them down, they have a right to vote how they like.

You can both sides two rational parties in a functional democracy, but not the Republican party and anyone else. We're not talking about FF and FG here. We're not even talking the Tories and Labour. This is Gemma O'Doherty in party form.

For one, Trump and the Republicans will disregard those 76m voters. They're doing that, and have been doing so for decades, in how they attack the franchise of those on the other side.

That the majority of those 70m voters were happy with what Trump was doing makes my point quite clearly.
They're perfectly happy voting for someone who obviously doesn't give a **** about them and spent his entire tenure stuffing his pockets at the expense of the public purse. The frequent racist statements, the holding children in cages, the willful attacks on democracy, the rule of law and the free press - none of that fazes them.

These people are either unaware of these facts, and thus ignorant enough to accept more or less anything, they're actively supportive of them, or they dislike them, but they're tolerant of them to achieve some other end.

It doesn't really matter what that end is. It could be the most virtuous end in existence, but it means they're happy with fascism if they believe it'll get them there. That should deeply concern anyone.

The rise of the far right has never been about an entire country just up and joining the Blackshirts one day. Hitler didn't have unanimous, unambiguous support, even among supporters of the Nazi party, but there's a reason why the Nuremburg defence isn't taken seriously, or why we have a phrase, "All it takes for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing".

The Republicans aren't all frothing at the mouth for the blood of minorities and nobody thinks they are. They're not evil. The problem is that they don't need to be for this Republican party to be come fully, nakedly fascist, if it's not already.

Girly Gal wrote: »

The narrative on here is that the Republicans are evil and the Democrats can do no wrong. The reality is much different, there's very little difference between the vast majority of them, it's just the extremists on both sides where the difference lies. It seems to be the nut jobs on both sides that get most of the air time.
Trump is a crass individual and I personally wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him, but, he did manage to capture a vote from people who either felt they weren't being represented or were disillusioned with the established candidates, don't think he cared a jot for them, just used them as a means to an end, it's what most politicians do, Trump just didn't bother to hide it like other politicians do.

"Both Sides" is just rubbish. It's born of either bad faith or the moral cowardice of being unable to take a principled stance on anything. It's the politics of saying a stubbed toe is as bad as a brain hemorrage because they're both a form of damage.

As with everything, individuals, Republican and Democrat, will fall on a spectrum. However, when you look at what the mainstream of each party is, and the people who actually wield power within them, it becomes blindingly obvious that they're miles apart. Yes, there's a few black block types who get into scraps on the far left, but, 1, they're a tiny minority, 2, they're vastly less dangerous than the extremists on the far right, who routinely carry out terrorist attacks and kill people, and 3, they're absolutely miles from any power within the Democratic party.

Who's the elected extremist in the Democratic party? AOC? A milquetoast social democrat? While on the Republican side you have people who believe the ****ing Rapture is imminent. Or people who believe that there's a giant paedophile cannibal cult conspiracy that Donald Trump will save us from. People you'd be afraid to stand next to. Legitimately fanatical crazy people, who should probably be in a padded cell.

The difference between the two is that the extremists aren't a factor in the Democratic party or the greater progressive movement, while they're the mainstream of the Republican party.

I have a pretty healthy contempt for the Democratic party, pretty much across the spectrum, but they're absolutely no comparison. The Republican party are terrifying.

Girly Gal wrote: »

Bush v Clinton wasn't even close, had Biden won by the same margin Trump would have little choice but to concede, but, it was close enough in a handful of states for him to drag this out. Don't worry he'll be out in January one way or another, what he's doing now is all for show. Btw I'm not a Trump supporter, just sick of all the hysteria that he's not going to go

So Bush accepted defeat and that was the end of it?

This election is almost exactly the same margin by which Trump beat Clinton 4 years ago. How did she handle being beaten compared with how Trump is handling it?

He’ll go IF he’s pushed which is very different from going of his own accord.

He’ll almost certainly be forced out by loss of support to stay and deny the election result.

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

So Bush accepted defeat and that was the end of it?

This election is almost exactly the same margin by which Trump beat Clinton 4 years ago. How did she handle being beaten compared with how Trump is handling it?

He’ll go IF he’s pushed which is very different from going of his own accord.

He’ll almost certainly be forced out by loss of support to stay and deny the election result.

Of course Trump should have conceded, but, the idea you're pushing is that he'll be dragged out of office., which won't happen. At some point in the next few weeks he'll concede to save face. At that point he'll have already stoked up his fan base and made Biden's transition as difficult as he can.

Clinton was not the incumbent so had little leverage to do what Trump is doing, not that she'd do it anyway. Whether people like it or not Trump won the election legitimately in 2016, just as he has legitimately lost it this time.

Hunky Monster wrote: »

That's the very definition of playing politics.

Wow.

No its not.... all they said was they wouldn't be seeking authorization for it until middle to late November.

Hunky Monster wrote: »

I agree with you but if the announcement came in a few months time when Biden is in he would get ALL the credit.

I just find it strange it was announced days after the election.

Only if it was a US funded vaccine which Pfizers is not

jamule wrote: »

can they stop him playing golf or twittering, not sure he is doing fook all else.

At this stage I have zero problems with him playing golf. He can't do any damage out there. Retweeting election fraud conspiracy theories is another matter though.

jaykay74 wrote: »

Well, Moderna have made their big vaccine announcement today claiming 95% immunity. But you think Pfizer just sat on their 90% news until after the election. :pac:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/16/moderna-covid-vaccine-candidate-almost-95-effective-trials-show

I said this last week - if Pfizer were sitting on it and Moderna or J&J had beaten them to the announcement, they would have been sickened!

That 95% effective is based on a sample of 95 people, so don't get too excited. Pfizer's wasn't much different mind.

VinLieger wrote: »

Thats completely incorrect, there were 12000 people in the test, tbh i think youve literally read the data completely wrong as the 95 people who contracted Covid were in the Placebo group.

Yes, sorry, I didn't read it, I heard it on the radio while driving and obviously picked it up wrong.

At noon on January 20th, Trump will become subject to the same rules of conduct as the rest of us on Bookface, Twatter, and all the rest. He'll have his posting privileges revoked shortly thereafter, and will fade from relevance.