Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VIII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

Quin_Dub · 02-07-2020 9:02am

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Great find. I'm awaiting my PhD in the post so I can understand it and be able to use it..

Does it translate into Senate and House majority projections?

That site has details on all the elections - Tends to focus on the "swing" ones , but they are all there

The background on all the Senate races is here

Carfacemandog · 02-07-2020 10:35am

nthclare wrote: »

Ah sure we'll see what happens, it's no big deal really.

I just prefer the republicans to be honest.

But on the basis of what? Like any policies or outlooks, or are you just more sold by the sound of the word republican or something?

looksee · 02-07-2020 11:01am

In fairness, if you are not really paying attention, the outspoken, me-first, gun-toting woodsman in the city, beautiful-people-preferred, take care of yourself and devil take the hindmost approach to life comes over better on action films than the cerebral, take care of people, everyone has rights character. Yes, I can see how you could have 'feelings' about parties if you judge them on the basis of what makes the best plot line.

sid waddell · 02-07-2020 11:28am

Gbear wrote: »

I heard a funny suggestion the other day on Al Franken's podcast.

There's a no age limit for SC justices, so nominate a toddler, and they'll be there for 70+ years! :pac:

Honestly, it's a load of despicable ignorant bull****.

The use of the cold war imagery bespeaks the absolute basement-tier level of political discourse in the US. The Never Trump Republicans bear a huge amount of the responsibility for the state of the planet, and the advent of Trumpism.

The idea that the problem is a giant evil monolithic empire in Russia is an incredibly convenient excuse for people who legalised bribery in the US, and for whom it suits to play up a narrative that it woz them that did it, when they run in the same oligarchic circles as Trump, and Putin's other cronies.

They're utterly despicable people, and I hope not only is Trumpism defeated, but all the schemes in propagating climate change, war-mongering, religious ignorance, racism and white supremacy, that those supposed honest brokers who are just reasonable people, dontcha'know, and can't be compared to the party they've opportunistically abandoned, are as well.

I don't disagree at all with your assessment of the people behind the Lincoln Project, or the bit about legalised bribery or the part these people have played in pushing the US to a position where Trump was the logical outcome. I thoroughly agree with it. I think they're horrible neo-liberals and neo-cons (neo-liberals and neo-cons are generally the same people in the US) and are indeed a large part of the problem.

It's a tricky one. In general I hate these sort of ads - but Trump is a fascist, and is in bed with Putin. It would be hard to make a credible case that any of the Lincoln Project ads are not actually describing the reality of the situation, in context. It would be hard to make out that Trump does not deserve to be eviscerated in the manner these ads are doing.

Russia, more than anybody, has pushed the phrase "the new cold war". And that is what they are waging. Putin's reign is based on the idea that "the west" is out to get Russia simply because they're Russian. Fake victimhood.

So both things are true. Russia is waging a new cold war, and the Lincoln Project are horrible people who are trying to absolve themselves of something that they played a large part in creating.

Biden I think has to largely run an Obama type campaign and offer an optimistic view of America. But the sheer evilness of Trump's regime also has to be highlighted.

Doesn't it?

So who highlights it, or should highlight it, and how? The Biden campaign themselves, or people who are not very nice themselves but are willing, on this occasion, to campaign for your ends?

Do you take all the help you can get, from whatever source, even an enemy of an enemy who will be your enemy again if you win?

The reality is these sort of ads are very effective.

But who's actually seeing them? It seems to me they're largely an internet based thing, I believe they're also being shown on television in the Washington DC area. But the Washington DC area and surrounding states is not where Biden has a problem. It's the swing states where he could have the problem.

Are these ads actually getting through to the people they need to be aimed at? It would seem they may not be.

aloyisious · 02-07-2020 12:53pm

Katrina Pierson, an advisor to the Trump campaign, still seems to be on the job after copying and passing on a meme that Congresswoman Ilhan Omar from Minnesota is a terrorist. The fact that Ilhan's a Muslim originally from Somalia just might have something to do with the campaign fine person's opinion. Seems she's also a bit teed-off with the make-up of the USSC after some members decision on abortion and believes Trump will improve it.

Gbear · 02-07-2020 1:52pm

sid waddell wrote: »

I don't disagree at all with your assessment of the people behind the Lincoln Project, or the bit about legalised bribery or the part these people have played in pushing the US to a position where Trump was the logical outcome. I thoroughly agree with it. I think they're horrible neo-liberals and neo-cons (neo-liberals and neo-cons are generally the same people in the US) and are indeed a large part of the problem.

It's a tricky one. In general I hate these sort of ads - but Trump is a fascist, and is in bed with Putin. It would be hard to make a credible case that any of the Lincoln Project ads are not actually describing the reality of the situation, in context. It would be hard to make out that Trump does not deserve to be eviscerated in the manner these ads are doing.

Russia, more than anybody, has pushed the phrase "the new cold war". And that is what they are waging. Putin's reign is based on the idea that "the west" is out to get Russia simply because they're Russian. Fake victimhood.

So both things are true. Russia is waging a new cold war, and the Lincoln Project are horrible people who are trying to absolve themselves of something that they played a large part in creating.

Biden I think has to largely run an Obama type campaign and offer an optimistic view of America. But the sheer evilness of Trump's regime also has to be highlighted.

Doesn't it?

So who highlights it, or should highlight it, and how? The Biden campaign themselves, or people who are not very nice themselves but are willing, on this occasion, to campaign for your ends?

Do you take all the help you can get, from whatever source, even an enemy of an enemy who will be your enemy again if you win?

The reality is these sort of ads are very effective.

But who's actually seeing them? It seems to me they're largely an internet based thing, I believe they're also being shown on television in the Washington DC area. But the Washington DC area and surrounding states is not where Biden has a problem. It's the swing states where he could have the problem.

Are these ads actually getting through to the people they need to be aimed at? It would seem they may not be.

I probably could've ended my post with the statement "BUT... if it works..."

I'm certainly all in favour of all the baddies turning on each other, but it is dangerous to perceive this moment as a case of bad people inflicting their badness on society, rather than the systemic issue that has allowed it to take place, and on a more petty level, it would be sickening to see the likes of George Will, Rex Tillerson, David Frum or whatnot, emerge out the far side with their reputations laundered.
I enjoy the Talking Feds podcast, but the host, Harry Litman, a former US Attorney and current law professor, thought that Bill Barr was going to be one of the "adults in the room" when he was brought in, and it shows just how despicable people who have already proven to be crooks have this appearance in political discourse of being reasonable. Barr didn't just turn 180 into a corrupt fixer under Trump. That's what he's always been.

They're part of a group who ultimately have broadly similar goals to the Trumpists, but they want to go about it more circumspectly, both because it's more effective, and because it allows them a veneer of respectability that allows them to continue to live in polite society, while simultaneously advocating war crimes and destroying the environment.

I almost hate them more, because Trump is almost like a force of nature. He's only barely sentient, and can't really be dealt with rationally. He's a sort of fascism idiot savant. The others are calculating, and have a more considered theoretical bedrock to their positions, that bespeaks a much higher degree of intellectual and moral bankruptcy.

Quin_Dub · 02-07-2020 1:56pm

Gbear wrote: »

I probably could've ended my post with the statement "BUT... if it works..."

I'm certainly all in favour of all the baddies turning on each other, but it is dangerous to perceive this moment as a case of bad people inflicting their badness on society, rather than the systemic issue that has allowed it to take place, and on a more petty level, it would be sickening to see the likes of George Will, Rex Tillerson, David Frum or whatnot, emerge out the far side with their reputations laundered.

They're part of a group who ultimately have broadly similar goals to the Trumpists, but they want to go about it more circumspectly, both because it's more effective, and because it allows them a veneer of respectability that allows them to continue to live in polite society, while simultaneously advocating war crimes and destroying the environment.

I almost hate them more, because Trump is almost like a force of nature. He's only barely sentient, and can't really be dealt with rationally. He's a sort of fascism idiot savant. The others are calculating, and have a more considered theoretical bedrock to their positions, that bespeaks a much higher degree of intellectual and moral bankruptcy.

Indeed - You do wonder if their anger with Trump has more to do with Trump pulling back the curtain on the underlying reasons for what are pretty generic GOP activities rather than any anger at the actions themselves

They want him gone for "Saying the quiet part out loud" as it were.

funnights74 · 02-07-2020 1:56pm

It's laughable when he keeps saying what a tremendous job his administration has been doing,the numbers are insane, i would wonder what numbers would constitute a bad job.

Rjd2 · 02-07-2020 2:19pm

Gbear wrote: »

I probably could've ended my post with the statement "BUT... if it works..."

I'm certainly all in favour of all the baddies turning on each other, but it is dangerous to perceive this moment as a case of bad people inflicting their badness on society, rather than the systemic issue that has allowed it to take place, and on a more petty level, it would be sickening to see the likes of George Will, Rex Tillerson, David Frum or whatnot, emerge out the far side with their reputations laundered.
.

I've decided best to ignore all those never Trumpers making out like bandits in these times. I have told people in my own circle I don't want to see Project Lincoln videos because pretty much everyone involved in them has laid the groundwork for Trump and have shown little remorse. They will be on the Hailey bandwagon in a few years of treating Palestine like ****, and declaring undying love for trickle down economics.

Frum is the worst of them, played a huge role in selling the Iraq war, shown little remorse and was on TV baiting Bernie supporters calling them losers a few months ago.

Its deeply uncomfortable how much control these people and Jennifer Rubin wield over the party, hopefully with the likes of AOC and her crew unseating old and useless corporate Dems the party will move leftward enough these people will run for the hills. Its possible as unsurprisingly they all hated Bernie because he had the nerve to discuss the gross inequality in America.

sid waddell · 02-07-2020 3:23pm

Ghislaine Maxwell has been arrested by the FBI and will be charged with four counts relating to the sexual abuse of minors and two counts of perjury.

Press conference to be held by SDNY at 5pm our time.

I can't help thinking that this explains Barr's sacking of SDNY US Attorney Geoffrey Berman.

TomOnBoard · 02-07-2020 3:55pm

Quin_Dub wrote: »

That site has details on all the elections - Tends to focus on the "swing" ones , but they are all there

The background on all the Senate races is here

Jeez, that's an impressive site. Dunno how I missed it... I need to sit down and walk through the possible House and Senate seat exchanges in Nov. There goes Sunday!!

TomOnBoard · 02-07-2020 4:00pm

Gbear wrote: »

I heard a funny suggestion the other day on Al Franken's podcast.

There's a no age limit for SC justices, so nominate a toddler, and they'll be there for 70+ years! :pac:

Honestly, it's a load of despicable ignorant bull****.

The use of the cold war imagery bespeaks the absolute basement-tier level of political discourse in the US. The Never Trump Republicans bear a huge amount of the responsibility for the state of the planet, and the advent of Trumpism.

The idea that the problem is a giant evil monolithic empire in Russia is an incredibly convenient excuse for people who legalised bribery in the US, and for whom it suits to play up a narrative that it woz them that did it, when they run in the same oligarchic circles as Trump, and Putin's other cronies.

They're utterly despicable people, and I hope not only is Trumpism defeated, but all the schemes in propagating climate change, war-mongering, religious ignorance, racism and white supremacy, that those supposed honest brokers who are just reasonable people, dontcha'know, and can't be compared to the party they've opportunistically abandoned, are as well.

Sometimes in war, the enemy of my enemy is my 'friend'..

ZeroThreat · 02-07-2020 4:16pm

sid waddell wrote: »

Ghislaine Maxwell has been arrested by the FBI and will be charged with four counts relating to the sexual abuse of minors and two counts of perjury.

Press conference to be held by SDNY at 5pm our time.

I can't help thinking that this explains Barr's sacking of SDNY US Attorney Geoffrey Berman.

Despite his claims to the contrary, I'd say prince Andrew is sweating quite a bit right now....

Tchaikovsky · 02-07-2020 4:21pm

ZeroThreat wrote: »

Despite his claims to the contrary, I'd say prince Andrew is sweating quite a bit right now....

Unless Ghislaine gets suicided too.

ZeroThreat · 02-07-2020 4:26pm

Tchaikovsky wrote: »

Unless Ghislaine gets suicided too.

Tbh that was the first though that crossed my mind when I read about her arrest on this thread, but I didn't want to put the mockers on it...

Inquitus · 02-07-2020 4:27pm

sid waddell wrote: »

Ghislaine Maxwell has been arrested by the FBI and will be charged with four counts relating to the sexual abuse of minors and two counts of perjury.

Press conference to be held by SDNY at 5pm our time.

I can't help thinking that this explains Barr's sacking of SDNY US Attorney Geoffrey Berman.

From what I have seen in the news, on Panorama, on Netflix documentaries etc. it seems she was more than knee deep in Epstein's carry on, so it is hard to see how she doesn't end up serving some serious time over this. Obviously throwing Andy under the bus potentially gives her an out, so as others have mentioned if I was Andrew, I would be shítting myself!

Hopefully justice is done, because both Andrew and Ghislain seem to have committed some heinous crimes, and regardless of their status, they should pay the penalty for what they have done!

Quin_Dub · 02-07-2020 4:30pm

Tchaikovsky wrote: »

Unless Ghislaine gets suicided too.

It's not like it hasn't happened to a Maxwell before...

TomOnBoard · 02-07-2020 4:46pm

ZeroThreat wrote: »

Tbh that was the first though that crossed my mind when I read about her arrest on this thread, but I didn't want to put the mockers on it...

This announcement has all the hallmarks of a negotiated arrest, i.e. a packaged deal including agreed charges, likely pleas, possible terms of an incarceration including her personal security etc. She's probably given loads of depositions already, so that her knowledge of the criminality of others has been committed to video, thereby negating the value of her being 'suicided'. If the FBI follows previous form, she's been turned by now, and has spilled the beans already. How far and wide those beans will spread is anyone's guess at this point, but it ain't gonna be pretty.

On the other hand, I could be totally wrong, and she's been arrested while hiding out disguised as a Nun in a convent somewhere, and she'll be toast by Monday!

Carfacemandog · 02-07-2020 5:27pm

Tchaikovsky wrote: »

Unless Ghislaine gets suicided too.

Surely not. She'll be under the watchful eye of William 'Trumps legal bodyguard' Barr like Jeffrey Epstein before her when he was the highest profile prisoner in the US justice system. What could possibly go wrong?

sid waddell · 02-07-2020 6:30pm

TomOnBoard wrote: »

This announcement has all the hallmarks of a negotiated arrest, i.e. a packaged deal including agreed charges, likely pleas, possible terms of an incarceration including her personal security etc. She's probably given loads of depositions already, so that her knowledge of the criminality of others has been committed to video, thereby negating the value of her being 'suicided'. If the FBI follows previous form, she's been turned by now, and has spilled the beans already. How far and wide those beans will spread is anyone's guess at this point, but it ain't gonna be pretty.

On the other hand, I could be totally wrong, and she's been arrested while hiding out disguised as a Nun in a convent somewhere, and she'll be toast by Monday!

And I would guess it will be "negotiated" so as not to spill the beans on anybody really important, ie. anybody or any country, the involvement of whom/which would have serious political implications.

Guy:Incognito · 02-07-2020 7:07pm

What is this he's on about now?

https://twitter.com/Acosta/status/1278686560226086913?s=19

The dead people are "bad lives" or what?

looksee · 02-07-2020 7:32pm

No, its clear from the full context that its the life of the virus he is talking about. Its a stupid analogy, but he isn't talking about killing anyone. There is enough stuff to accuse him of without inventing stuff.

moon2 · 02-07-2020 7:56pm

looksee wrote: »

No, its clear from the full context that its the life of the virus he is talking about. Its a stupid analogy, but he isn't talking about killing anyone. There is enough stuff to accuse him of without inventing stuff.

When taken in context the response is bad as it's even more rambling than usual.

The positive reading of it is that he simply is uninformed and so cannot give a coherent response. The negative reading would be that he's incapable of understanding what's going on.

Igotadose · 02-07-2020 8:04pm

sid waddell wrote: »

And I would guess it will be "negotiated" so as not to spill the beans on anybody really important, ie. anybody or any country, the involvement of whom/which would have serious political implications.

I wouldn't be so certain of that. I expect we won't hear anything for awhile as she's interviewed. There'll be a dribble of information at best; the investigators do this to make the guilty parties sweat. Then, one by one they start turning up the pressure through leaks. One sings, then the others start chiming in, no one wants to be last to sing.

02-07-2020 8:59pm

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Jeez, that's an impressive site. Dunno how I missed it... I need to sit down and walk through the possible House and Senate seat exchanges in Nov. There goes Sunday!!

I usually use https://electoral-vote.com
It's worth reading more or less daily. It has lots of background and unlike a lot of places they caveat most results where it's needed. They're a bit too centrish-Democrat leaning for my liking but I've been reading it for over 15 years at this stage which feels very strange to say about anything on the internet. :P

Itssoeasy · 02-07-2020 10:18pm

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

What is this he's on about now?

https://twitter.com/Acosta/status/1278686560226086913?s=19

The dead people are "bad lives" or what?

That quote doesn't make any sense. It's a word salad.

Sonics2k · 02-07-2020 10:20pm

I am genuinely, truly and excited to see people try and defend this one. I personally have veered away from calling Trump a Nazi, despite the slew of Nazi supporters he has. I figured he was just some old jackass without outdated views, but not actually looking for the Nazi vote directly.

https://globalnews.ca/news/7130932/trump-nazi-eagle-logo-america-first/

https://twitter.com/ProjectLincoln/status/1278484113918431232

Now yes, one can argue that the Yanks love to use an Eagle on all their motifs, however this one so closely resembles the Nazi symbol it's insane.

Penn · 02-07-2020 10:53pm

Sonics2k wrote: »

I am genuinely, truly and excited to see people try and defend this one. I personally have veered away from calling Trump a Nazi, despite the slew of Nazi supporters he has. I figured he was just some old jackass without outdated views, but not actually looking for the Nazi vote directly.

https://globalnews.ca/news/7130932/trump-nazi-eagle-logo-america-first/

https://twitter.com/ProjectLincoln/status/1278484113918431232

Now yes, one can argue that the Yanks love to use an Eagle on all their motifs, however this one so closely resembles the Nazi symbol it's insane.

It really gets to the point where you could call some of them coincidences, but not all of them. Collectively, there are so many subtle nods to Nazi ideology or white supremacy symbolism that it just can't be coincidental.

Who are the people making these decisions though, because in fairness I doubt Trump himself is anywhere near this stuff.

Carfacemandog · 02-07-2020 10:53pm

Pretty telling that the eagle in us insignia usually has the flag as its chest/breast, while that one is perched atop as the nazi one was (the standard German one isn't either): https://www.google.com/search?q=us+eagle+badge&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwj5t9PVxa_qAhWmSEEAHWmnCvEQ2-cCegQIABAA&oq=us+eagle+badge&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQA1AAWABgxpcBaABwAHgAgAEAiAEAkgEAmAEAqgELZ3dzLXdpei1pbWc&sclient=img&ei=7lX-XvmIGKaRhbIP6c6qiA8&bih=718&biw=412

There are more important things like covid and the latest bout of Russian subservience to worry about, and more interesting things like how long until Ghislaine Maxwell gets suicided under Trumps watch as Epstein was, and not just the fact that Berman's firing at the SDNY may well have been related to this case (Trump and Barr tried - and failed - to replace him with a crony), but that the same SDNY was the ones who were prosecuting Trump and Epstein for child rape back in the 1990s: https://cdn.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/Johnson_TrumpEpstein_Lawsuit.pdf

But yeah, between the nazi eagle and $88 baseball's on the same day, it's not an accident. I'd bet good money there's an Easter egg for the number 14 in there somewhere too.

Water John · 02-07-2020 11:08pm

Greg Abbot Govn'r Texas makes wearing masks mandatory.

Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VIII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

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