Naturism and Irish beaches

normar · 23-01-2006 10:16pm

They're ba-ack........ Must be some buzz in dangling ones wobbly bits in the wind and sun to engender this much passion and almost missionary zeal. I'm off to get the hairdryer and heat lamp to see what all the fuss is about.

And wibbs is back too with his cynical and sneering attitude to the issue of Naturism. Well we suppose we will have to grin and bear it, but we would just like to remind him it's the lowest form of wit and tiresome.

Paul Ableman writes: "We have divorced ourselves from our instincts so conclusively that we are now menaced by their perverted expression. The blocked erotic instinct turns into destructiveness and, in our age, many thinkers have perceived that some of the most ghastly manifestations of human culture are fueled by recycled eroticism. Channelled into pure cerebration, the sexual instinct may generate nightmares impossible in the animal world. Animals are casually cruel and are usually, not always, indifferent to the pain of other animals. Animals kills for food or, rarely, for sport but they do not torture, gloat over pain or exterminate. We do. What's more, we can tolerate our own ferocity. What we cannot tolerate is our own sexuality."

An obsessive sense of modesty about the body often correlates with a reluctance to share healthy forms of touch with others.

Naturist. just like being naked and enjoy that state even more when in the company of other naturists. And genuine naturists do not seek to cause offence to anyone, to do so we would consider shameful.

Mick and Nora

Wibbs · 24-01-2006 11:12am

normar wrote:

And wibbs is back too with his cynical and sneering attitude to the issue of Naturism. Well we suppose we will have to grin and bear it, but we would just like to remind him it's the lowest form of wit and tiresome.

Grin and "bare" it eh? Now that's low. Anyway, this mouldering thread had run it's course for most. Now, months later, you come back again looking for "converts". Do you not think this seems strange to some people? Do you not think it seems a bit creepy, for want of a better word? As I said before, all this sounds to much like a "lifestyle" for comfort.

Paul Ableman writes: "We have divorced ourselves from our instincts so conclusively that we are now menaced by their perverted expression. The blocked erotic instinct turns into destructiveness and, in our age, many thinkers have perceived that some of the most ghastly manifestations of human culture are fueled by recycled eroticism. Channelled into pure cerebration, the sexual instinct may generate nightmares impossible in the animal world. Animals are casually cruel and are usually, not always, indifferent to the pain of other animals. Animals kills for food or, rarely, for sport but they do not torture, gloat over pain or exterminate. We do. What's more, we can tolerate our own ferocity. What we cannot tolerate is our own sexuality."

Hippy psuedo Freudian claptrap TBH. To ascribe "cruelty" to animals at all is anthromorphic and a tad old fashioned to say the least. The idea that in the halcyon(presumably naked) past we were unmolested by such destructive thinking is laughable. It's the fall of Adam story again. A lovely thought, but sadly unlikely. We're just another animal, naked or not. To blame the whole of human misery on some sort of blocked sexuality is a bit OTT as well. You do realise that animals kill each other on a regular basis for greater access to mates? Even so, to take from that quote the suggestion that we can regain such a fictitious Shangri La by walking about naked is even more naive and silly. You could equally argue, rightly or wrongly, that naturism shows an immature exhibitionist streak, like some six year old showin' his willy for shock value.

An obsessive sense of modesty about the body often correlates with a reluctance to share healthy forms of touch with others.

So now we're the unhealthy ones, because we don't feel the seemingly overpowering need to take our clothes off and "share" healthy forms of touch en masse? Riiiiight. Anyhoo, when did the touching start and what are you defining as healthy in the context of naturism?

rubadub · 25-01-2006 6:22pm

"sarcasm is the lowest form of wit" is the lowest, most witless comeback ever :v:

Nasty_Girl · 25-01-2006 6:57pm

I think that nudist beaches in Ireland would attract pervs to be quite and totally honest.

I worked on beaches for years and the amount of them crawling through the dunes was unreal.
Frightening even.

People j*cking off and drinking, I was even followed about 3 times.
They were mostly tourists.

I would certainly not feel comfortable and would fear for anyones safety, especially young teens.
They wouldn't even have to approach you on the beach but if they saw you later...
Especially in a society like Ireland where if a girl wears a short skirt "she's asking for it" (see thread on "ass grabbing" in After Hours for confirmation of this attitude)

I don't know, I could be way off and I don't mean to offend.
I would just worry, you never know who is watching you.

normar · 30-01-2006 2:57am

Nasty_Girl wrote:

I think that nudist beaches in Ireland would attract pervs to be quite and totally honest.
I worked on beaches for years and the amount of them crawling through the dunes was unreal.
Frightening even.
I don't know, I could be way off and I don't mean to offend.
I would just worry, you never know who is watching you.

We can understand from what N_G says above the reluctance of many people to be nude on a beach in Ireland (and presumably any other beach). Naturism is not for everyone. That's understandable, and we accept it fully. Naturists don't want to force or pressure anyone into being nude anywhere. We believe in letting people live their lives as best they can through tolerance and respect.

On the issue of Naturists attracting perverts all we can say is that this is not our fault. Perverts are attracted to all walks of life. We are like other groups in that we can't just give up being what we are, in our case naturists because of the activities of some unsavoury people. We have been on naturists beaches in Europe and the USA and on no occasion were we bothered by perverts.

I would certainly not feel comfortable and would fear for anyones safety, especially young teens. People j*cking off and drinking, I was even followed about 3 times.
They wouldn't even have to approach you on the beach but if they saw you later...
Especially in a society like Ireland where if a girl wears a short skirt "she's asking for it" (see thread on "ass grabbing....)

What you are describing is as we understand it a criminal offence. No one should feel afraid for their safety anywhere at any time. You don't say if the fear you felt happened on a naturist beach or not, but it wouldn't matter. Call the Guards or the police and have the matter dealt with. Grabbing anyones arse also constitutes an assault on the person and is also a criminal offence. Threatening and criminal behavour by anyone is an offence. It has nothing at all do with naturism. It should be dealt with by the full force of the law

Sorry N_G but we can't agree with you that

"in a society like Ireland where if a girl wears a short skirt "she's asking for it"

We believe that Irish people have developed a greater tolerance for others. That's not say that there no ignorant backward gobs out there, but in general we have progressed in our attituides to women. We hope so anyway.
Can we at least assure you that in the Irish naturist movement in common with naturists worldwide, we work to increase respect and acceptance for others in society and especially women.

Naturism is not for everyone and we accept that. But for those of us who choose to be nude, alone and in company because we enjoy it, should not be blamed for the activities of a criminal minority. Naturists respect and tolerate others, and naturally expect the same.

Find out more at http://www.esatclear.ie/~irishnaturist/ or by email at clubaquarius@gmail.com

Mick and Nora

normar · 03-02-2006 2:40am

It would be fair to say that discussion on these threads develop in their own way. We think it might be the right time to give a short summary of our position so far, as naturists, which might help explain some things.

The basic question we asked at the beginning was why Irish people who visit naturist beaches while abroad seem reluctant to visit Naturist tolerated beaches at home. We say tolerated because there are no official clothing optional beaches here in Ireland. We mentioned as well that this meant that Ireland was the only country in Europe not to have them and we thought this a pity. We made what was basically an appeal that Irish people who enjoyed naturism abroad should also be naturist at home, and wondered why this was rearly the case.

There were contributions suggesting that the weather was primarily the reason for this, and to a large extent this is significant. But the weather here during Summer is not that much different than in the UK. Yet there are a good number of naturist beaches throughout the UK and these are well attended in summer.

There were other contributions that remarked about "perverts" who hung around such beaches put people off naturism. Again this is a legitimate argument and we can see how that would be difficult for some to put up with.
Our only answer we can offer to this issue is based on our own experience. These "perverts" just want to see sex. When they don't get to see it they soon loose interest and sloop off to where they came from. This is especially so when there are groups of naturists together on the beach enjoying the sunshine.
Other contributions mentioned about "naturists" being offensive and "in your face" and how this was not very nice. We agree fully. Real naturists do not seek to cause offence to anyone, and we would never tolerate this behavour from anyone.This is the reason we ask for proper designated beaches where naturism can be enjoyed. Designated beaches would be very clearly marked so that people would be aware that naked people may be seen there, and people could make an informed choice as to whether they wish to enter into the area of not.

We accept that naturism is not for everyone. There are people who would perish at the thought of being seen in the nude. Thats ok too and very understandable. But equally there are people who enjoy being naked especially in the company of other human beings who are naturists. It gives a very powerful sence of acceptance and confidence to those of us who practice it. There was one contributer who criticised us for what he believed was "promoting a lifestyle". Well yes. I suppose we are promoting a lifestyle. One which teaches tolerance, and acceptance of others, and of trying to be harmony with nature.

Finally we do not seek to go wandering naked around the streets of towns and villages in Ireland as suggested by one contributer. What we want is the right to enjoy being naked in nature and in the company of other likeminded people in areas where this is leaglly accepted. There is no shame in the nake human body. Naturists teach tolerance and acceptance for all people regardless of age, sex, creed or physical condition.
We were hoping that modern Ireland and it's people had moved towards this notion of tolerance and acceptance. We believe it has.

For more information see: http://www.esatclear.ie/~irishnaturist/

Mick and Nora.

JupiterKid · 15-04-2006 6:39pm

I don't consider myself a real natuist as I don't visit naturist resorts or clubs but I prefer to swim and sunbathe nude - it is a fantastic feeling of freedom and once you open your mind and stop equating nudity with sex the appeal of swimming naked becomes obvious. Swimming trunks are actually really stupid and uncomfortable. There is definitely a growing number of like minded people here in Ireland who believe that swimming nude is the best way to swim.

Some posters on this thread demonstrate exactly why Ireland is the ONLY country in all of Europe not to have a designated and legal naturist beach (and it has nothing to do with our weather). Much as we would like to think that we've socially modernised, Irish society is still very much dominated by both church-taught shame and guilt, the growing Anglo-American cultural influence of nudity=sex, and ideas are also moulded by the pornography and beauty industries. I see a survey showed the only 1 in 50 women are turly happy with their bodies - this is really sad and shows that we are being fed a pack of distorted lies about how we should live and look.

Naturism is actually the opposite of pornography - as there is nothing hidden or covered up, there is no message of temptation, secrecy and enticement that womens' bikinis, for example, convey. Continental Europeans have a much more mature and open-minded approach to nudity. In Germany, it is quite normal to swim in the nude and nobody sees any sort of problem with it.

Yes there are gawkers, pervs and other dodgy characaters that try to hang out at naturist places but these people are not welcome and their attraction to gawking and getting off is actually the result of prudery, body shame, ignorance and a general unhealthy hang-up about sex.

fly_agaric · 16-04-2006 5:25pm

normar wrote:

No we wouldn't. Nature has made us the way we are...natural and naked. It is as normal and natural for humans to be naked as it is for us to walk, talk, love, live and die.
Broaden your horizons and enjoy what is natural and normal.

We evolved in lowland regions in Africa, pretty close to the equator, with warm and predicatble weather throughout the year. All you'll really need is some kind of a willy protector for men who decide to chase after/run away from wild animals.

Our stone-age forebears wouldn't have lasted very long if they'd tried to survive without any clothes in Ireland.

"Naturism" in countries with climates like Ireland is not "normal" or "natural" but I see nothing wrong with having dedicated areas where people who are into this stuff can strip off when we get our week or so yearly allowance of weather which makes it non-masochistic to do so.:D

JustAnother · 19-04-2006 8:34pm

I suppose it's partly due to religious conservatism and partly due to people taking holidays abroad in countries that are much warmer than Ireland.

Whether someone enjoys naturism is surely down to that person and not inevitable.

coffee_cake · 24-04-2006 2:10pm

Why don't you call yourself nudists? It's hardly got much to do with nature, only going around without clothes on.

In any case, I'm fine with it as long as they're out of the way. I don't want to see this when I'm walking or driving along, thanks.

Ag marbh · 24-04-2006 7:58pm

Big thumbs up for Naturism. I try get naked whenever I can, especially at house parties during the Summer. Tis a lovely feeling !

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 26-04-2006 5:24pm

If God wanted me to be naturist, I wouldn't have been born that way. And He wouldn't have sent me to the South of France and cured my psorasis (well, eased it a lot, anyway).

We're a nation of childish prudes here, end of story. We see/think nudity and we think not sex, but 'perverts'. I blame the catholic chruch and their successors, the Star/Sunday World.

The only environmental factor aiding our blubber is not the cold, it's bloody McDonald's We're fat because we eat too much.

And if it's too cold to go naked, how come it's warm enough to wear a speedo?

normar · 12-05-2006 1:52am

fly_agaric wrote:

"Naturism" in countries with climates like Ireland is not "normal" or "natural" but I see nothing wrong with having dedicated areas where people who are into this stuff can strip off when we get our week or so yearly allowance of weather which makes it non-masochistic to do so.:D

We mostly agree with the above. And with the weather so nice over the past two days.... repeat two whole days.... it was a real pleasure to be out on our favourite beach enjoying the sunshine on our bodies. The water is still freezing so we wait for another while to get in without going comatose.

Would be nice to see more naturists out enjoying the "lifestyle".
M+N

fits · 12-05-2006 10:55am

I like the idea of a nudist beach, often because a lot of men scared of seeing other mens dangly bits will avoid like the plague:D
I dont think they necessarily attract perverts, its very rude to stare, and I've found people to be very careful about where their eyes go. Also if you want to go on the beach, its only polite to go nekkid too! And single men do stand out, its mostly couples or groups that I've encountered.
Love the freedom of it, and the feeling of the sun on my skin I must say. And this doesnt make sense, but I actually feel less self conscious. My partner grew up on the continent and they were brought to nude beaches when they were in school, the naked body isnt stigmatised like it used to be here...
Have also tried out the baths in Baden Baden, and its absolutely lovely and so relaxing.

CoolGuy2006 · 12-05-2006 11:41am

I am moving to Germany soon and have spent alot of time there already. they certainly dont have a problem getting naked. My girlfriend regularly goes to a mixed sauna with her friends and she doesnt understand what my hangup with nudity is.

Its hard for me to explain it to her. Im not religious, i dont have any hangups with regards to the church. I have been naked outdoors a few times with her (In a lonely forest :-) and yes, its a great feeling.

I dont understand why you call yourselves naturists either. Wearing clothes is just as natural as not wearing clothes. Its like you suggest that we all live in an unatural way because we wear clothes.

wearing clothes is just as natural as being naked. Evolution has led us here, to be in this state. Its part of being Human, if we were to go naked all year we would all die. To survive naturally in Ireland we have to wear clothes.

At this present time, people who wear clothes should be called naturists. In Ireland anyway :-)

Also, even though i DONT have any religious hangups, I do like that fact that only my girlfriend sees me naked. In this day and age where everyone wants to know everything about you its nice to have something personal between the two of you. That might sound terribly old fashioned to most people here. Im a young guy, i promise :-)

Also, for those people who say that "We are born naked, its natural"
Yeah, but if you didnt have a blanket thrown around you and a incubator near by you would probably die. CLOTHES ARE A PART OF OUR NATURAL LIFE.

So dont be confused when you see people looking at you on a beach in Ireland, its just human nature to look at something you dont see everyday, People outside without clothes

I also think its a big joke to blame the church. Its modern day media thats the problem. Most advertisments, movies and music videos try to shove sex down our throats. Always using as much of the naked body to suggest something sexual. You cant blame people for having these thoughts when they see a naked person or why they would put nakedness and sex together. This could also put people off the idea of stripping off.

fits · 12-05-2006 12:50pm

coolguy, is your girlfriend german? My boyfriend is, und ich spreche nicht deutsch auch:)

I dont call it naturism, and I dont understand why they make such a big deal out of it. Its just sunbathing and swimming naked, and it feels nice...

Its really not a big deal.

CoolGuy2006 · 12-05-2006 3:17pm

fits wrote:

coolguy, is your girlfriend german? My boyfriend is, und ich spreche nicht deutsch auch:)

I dont call it naturism, and I dont understand why they make such a big deal out of it. Its just sunbathing and swimming naked, and it feels nice...

Its really not a big deal.

Hey Fits, yeah my Girlfriend is German :-)

normar · 12-05-2006 11:56pm

fits wrote:

I dont call it naturism, and I dont understand why they make such a big deal out of it. Its just sunbathing and swimming naked, and it feels nice...
Its really not a big deal.

As naturists we agree with you that it's no big deal. The whole purpose of the thread was to try and convince more Irish naturists to practice the lifestyle here in Ireland when the weather is suitable. And we again would like to say to those who are thinking about trying out naturism to go ahead and give it a go. It's enjoyable and especially in the company of others.

As to why it's called Naturism we don't know. It's also called Nudism which may be more accurate. To us it's simply a name, and just like the rose every naked body would look just as natural by any name.

M+N

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 12-05-2006 11:59pm

normar wrote:

As naturists we agree with you that it's no big deal. The whole purpose of the thread was to try and convince more Irish naturists to practice the lifestyle here in Ireland when the weather is suitable. And we again would like to say to those who are thinking about trying out naturism to go ahead and give it a go. It's enjoyable and especially in the company of others.

As to why it's called Naturism we don't know. It's also called Nudism which may be more accurate. To us it's simply a name, and just like the rose every naked body would look just as natural by any name.

M+N

Right, I'm gonna stick my head out here and say it: I'm a single bloke. Problem in a nutshell. Been to Cap d'Agde, loved it, gone naked in Denmark, not a problem, but here, I'd be self-conscious about that more than anything.

normar · 13-05-2006 12:11am

Ikky Poo2 wrote:

Been to Cap d'Agde, loved it, gone naked in Denmark, not a problem, but here, I'd be self-conscious about that more than anything.

This is interesting. You went to naturist beaches in these places without a problem but here in Ireland you would be self- conscious about it. Why?

Sometimes I get the impression that there is something funny about this country, ......like it's haunted or had an evil spell cast upon it...or something

Just be yourself and enjoy it.

,

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 13-05-2006 12:15am

normar wrote:

This is interesting. You went to naturist beaches in these places without a problem but here in Ireland you would be self- conscious about it. Why?

Sometimes I get the impression that there is something funny about this country, ......like it's haunted or had an evil spell cast upon it...or something

Just be yourself and enjoy it.

,

No, slef-conscious about being a single bloke. Abroad, there was a much wider mix of people and attitudes are more open, and not just abotu the actual nudity

normar · 13-05-2006 12:27am

Ikky Poo2 wrote:

No, slef-conscious about being a single bloke. Abroad, there was a much wider mix of people and attitudes are more open, and not just abotu the actual nudity

OK I..P..2,

That's a fair point and well made.
Maybe our attituide to the naked human body is changing. We would like to think it is.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 13-05-2006 12:31am

normar wrote:

OK I..P..2,

That's a fair point and well made.
Maybe our attituide to the naked human body is changing. We would like to think it is.

i think so, but unfortunately, too slowly. A lot of my art revolves around nudity and getting models is horrendously difficult! Would love to go back to Cap D'Agde aith a holdall full of bodypaint...

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 13-05-2006 12:46am

...another problem with getting people out is information?

Where to go without having to join a club (which doesn't allow simgle male members) how people there are and so forth...

I don't mean, by the way, I'd be self-conscious because of my situation, just of being the ONLY one in that situation. Especailly if there were families present. Aborad, there was a much better mix of men/women couples/singles in 'public' places as opposed to clubs.

fits · 13-05-2006 11:43am

Did anyone see the late late last night? Not hard to imagine why people feel discouraged from going nekkid here. The guy who wrote the holy blood and the holy grail was getting ridiculous comments by text. He was being called a heretic amongst other things because he questioned a few things in the bible. Gosh the people defending him sounded totally brainwashed to me... Anyway it is this attitude which still prevails amongst a lot of people in this country, and quite frankly, these people find nudity sinful and offensive. This is why I dont think I'd strip off in Ireland unless it was a very private cove.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 13-05-2006 2:13pm

fits wrote:

Did anyone see the late late last night? Not hard to imagine why people feel discouraged from going nekkid here. The guy who wrote the holy blood and the holy grail was getting ridiculous comments by text. He was being called a heretic amongst other things because he questioned a few things in the bible. Gosh the people defending him sounded totally brainwashed to me... Anyway it is this attitude which still prevails amongst a lot of people in this country, and quite frankly, these people find nudity sinful and offensive. This is why I dont think I'd strip off in Ireland unless it was a very private cove.

A little off topic, but it's more the media these days than religion. Look at the amount of sensationalism in the tabloids

DOLEMAN · 13-05-2006 11:25pm

pork99 wrote:

I have on one occassion attempted cheat the weather in order to enjoy unfettered naturism by going au naturel in the Tralee Aqua Dome. Needless to say an unpleasant scene ensued with members of an Garda escorting me off the premises, court appearance, bound over to keep the peace etc. The whole apparatus of this state's repressive prudery was deployed against me.

All I can say is if people don't want their brats to ever see a healthy 19 stone man as God made him they probably should keep their wretched offspring locked in sheds and cellars until they reach the age of 21.

So you went to this place where people bring their kids to have fun, you stripped off in front of the kids, got arrested, and somehow you are in the right?

This has nothing to do with prudery or needing to lock children in cellars like you suggest. This is about you doing something totally inappropriate in front of children (and adults.)

I'm all on for naturist areas, but not the extreme being naked around unsuspecting kids. There's something very very creepy about that...

normar · 13-05-2006 11:56pm

fits wrote:

....... Anyway it is this attitude which still prevails amongst a lot of people in this country, and quite frankly, these people find nudity sinful and offensive. This is why I dont think I'd strip off in Ireland unless it was a very private cove.

We believe that attitudes are changing in Ireland. Slowly perhaps, but changing none the less.
What we would like to know is if you would strip off on a naturist Beach outside of Ireland? If the answer is yes then this means sadly, those who see nudity as sinful and offensive have beaten you. You might not agree but it seems like that from what you said.

What Naturists want is to have a recognised place of our own where we can enjoy being naked without offending.
Every other European country has leglislated for, and enjoys this right, except Ireland and it's time this changed. :mad:

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 14-05-2006 12:18am

normar wrote:

We believe that attitudes are changing in Ireland. Slowly perhaps, but changing none the less.
What we would like to know is if you would strip off on a naturist Beach outside of Ireland? If the answer is yes then this means sadly, those who see nudity as sinful and offensive have beaten you. You might not agree but it seems like that from what you said.

What Naturists want is to have a recognised place of our own where we can enjoy being naked without offending.
Every other European country has leglislated for, and enjoys this right, except Ireland and it's time this changed. :mad:

Agreed, you win. Now all I need is good weather duriong the weekend

normar · 21-05-2006 10:11pm

There is a very good (and fair) article in today's Sunday Independ 21/05/06 on this subject of Naturism.
It suggests as we do that there is an increasing interest in it in Ireland ans of course internationally. We are glad it's getting some serious national prominance and debate.

Naturism and Irish beaches

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