DCM 2019 - Mentored Novices Thread

Bananaleaf · 21-06-2019 8:00pm

I have a bit of a problem getting my head around miles. I have always counted in kms. Should I try to switch to miles though? Is the route marked in both miles and kms or just miles?

Thank you

DARK-KNIGHT · 21-06-2019 8:12pm

Hi lads been injured the last few weeks

Most i have ran is 5k

Do you think its too late to start training this week

Mr. Guappa · 21-06-2019 8:21pm

Bananaleaf wrote: »

I have a bit of a problem getting my head around miles. I have always counted in kms. Should I try to switch to miles though? Is the route marked in both miles and kms or just miles?

Thank you

It's entirely up to yourself. I switched to miles this time last year, it just felt easier as the distances grew. It took a week or two before it felt normal. Now I can't speak km at all, having being fluent before! I know Huzzah! works in km, as do plenty of runners.

The course is marked in miles, although I don't know if that makes too much difference. It's not something to stress over anyway, pick one and stick with it.

Bananaleaf · 21-06-2019 8:28pm

Also, was just wondering why the plan asks us to do hill sprints once in week 3 and never again? Am genuinely curious, so I hope it doesn't come across as me trying to be a smart alec.

I will be doing a half marathon in Achill during week2 of the plan. Therefore I have switched weeks 2 and 3 and plan to treat Achill as an LSR (although seeing as this is a race and may have a cut-off, I might just this once do it ever so slightly faster than LSR pace. Then again, I've heard it's one hilly mother, so maybe I won't be able!)

Should I keep the original plan for Wed of week2 of 1m warm up, 3m pace, 1m cool down and leave the hill sprints for week3? That is what feels like might be best as it sounds like I will be getting my fair share of hills in week 2 anyway.

Achill Half route : https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1iR-B4oEXFCiS7MAnQXBHDbNLw3VJW85D&ll=53.994019897547965%2C-10.025560000000041&z=13

Does anyone know if Google Maps has an option for letting you see the elevation map? Thank you

Mr. Guappa · 21-06-2019 8:37pm

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

Hi lads been injured the last few weeks

Most i have ran is 5k

Do you think its too late to start training this week

Hi DARK-KNIGHT, could you provide a little more detail on what you've done so far this year, maybe monthly mileage totals if you keep track?

Previously you said you were going to follow the same official plan as last year is that the 22-week beginner one on the DCM website?

ariana` · 21-06-2019 8:47pm

Bananaleaf wrote: »

I have a bit of a problem getting my head around miles. I have always counted in kms. Should I try to switch to miles though? Is the route marked in both miles and kms or just miles?

Thank you

I did my first in km and second in miles.... they both felt equally long

Mr. Guappa · 21-06-2019 9:32pm

Bananaleaf wrote: »

Achill Half route : https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1iR-B4oEXFCiS7MAnQXBHDbNLw3VJW85D&ll=53.994019897547965%2C-10.025560000000041&z=13

Does anyone know if Google Maps has an option for letting you see the elevation map? Thank you

I'll try and answer your post bit-by-bit if that's ok?

There is an elevation option somewhere on Google maps I'm pretty sure, although I don't think it's too detailed. On the phone at the minute so can't check.

It's easy enough to build the route yourself here, and check the elevation using the "mountain" button. Looks hilly alright!

ReeReeG · 21-06-2019 10:18pm

Bananaleaf wrote: »

Also, was just wondering why the plan asks us to do hill sprints once in week 3 and never again? Am genuinely curious, so I hope it doesn't come across as me trying to be a smart alec.

I think this question comes up often, so I wouldn't worry about looking like a smart alec

I'll answer as best as I can having read previous posts on this, and my own experience of hill sprints.

Hill sprints are often used to work on form or technique as well as being a form of speedwork, so one factor in having them at the start of the plan is (or could be) to assist in improving running technique. They are also a way of building strength in certain muscles.

The plan can be looked at in 3 stages, with the first stage being the lead in and introducing planned marathon pace miles, hill sprints, and strides, while starting to build the LR. The sprints and strides will help strengthen you before you move into the next stage where the focus moves to more frequent MP miles and increasing the LR, before finally moving back to more easy running to allow more recovery before the big day.

We'll talk more about actually running them when we're coming up to them on the plan, and maybe have a few tips from our own experiences.

Mr. Guappa · 21-06-2019 10:25pm

Bananaleaf wrote: »

I will be doing a half marathon in Achill during week2 of the plan. Therefore I have switched weeks 2 and 3 and plan to treat Achill as an LSR (although seeing as this is a race and may have a cut-off, I might just this once do it ever so slightly faster than LSR pace. Then again, I've heard it's one hilly mother, so maybe I won't be able!)

Should I keep the original plan for Wed of week2 of 1m warm up, 3m pace, 1m cool down and leave the hill sprints for week3? That is what feels like might be best as it sounds like I will be getting my fair share of hills in week 2 anyway.

I think you're over-complicating things a bit. Keep it simple - slot the HM in for the scheduled 10 miler and keep everything else pretty much as per the plan. Maybe adjust slightly before and after the HM, if you like - a mile or two less during week 2, and see how the legs are after Achill and adjust week 3 if necessary at the time.

What other races are you planning during the training block?

Bananaleaf · 21-06-2019 10:56pm

Thank you both for replying so quickly and so indepthly. ReeReeG, the stages of the plan makes a lot of sense. Mr Guappa, thanks for your advice, yes it does sound like I am overcomplicating it.

For the other races I tried to stick to what the boards plan has suggested, so I am doing the race series 10km and half. I cant do the FD 10mile so instead I am doing the Kilcock 10mile the week before it instead.

The only other deviation from the plan I have is our club 5km on 28th June. I'm open to advice from the experts on whether I should just run this easy in place of Thursday's easy 3mile or if I could race it? Would rather not mess with the plan too much so if it's best not to race it that is grand.

I know you have said it's good to ask questions but at the same time I'm aware that I'm asking plenty so thank you again

eabha19 · 21-06-2019 11:11pm

Hi, I'm a late starter here after having this thread recommended to me by a friend - I tried to read all the messages but gave up at page 8! I'm 44, running 3 years (after 41 years of complete inactivity!!), and this will be my first (and probably only) marathon. My race times are approx 24 mins 30 secs for 5k, 54 mins for 10k and 1hr 59 for half marathon. I run 4 times a week with club running mates:
Mon - tempo or hills (8-10k)
Wed - speed intervals (5-8k)
Saturday - LSR
Sunday - 6k recovery

I can't always make club nights and tend to just do an easy 6k jog with the dog when I miss Monday or Wednesday nights.

Have been working up mileage with running mates and we are up to 24kms (that was tough going!). I tore my achilles 20 years ago doing step aerobics (so I might have stretched the truth on the complete inactivity but it was close!) and have ongoing ankle and heel issues - the long runs really affect it and at the minute I'm sore and have been for 2 weeks or so. I know the exercises I need to do but don't always get them done.

My goal is 4hr 30 and really to run the whole thing, even if very slowly. I haven't chosen a plan but I find 4 runs a week a challenge so not sure I could manage 5, certainly not every week. I have a holiday coming up in the sun in a week and expect to only do a couple of short easy runs for those two weeks. My nutrition is not good - I like sugary, crappy foods and I eat way too much on Saturdays to reward myself for those long runs! But I kind of run to eat - is that not the point?

eabha19 · 21-06-2019 11:23pm

P.S. Did I see something earlier about a strava group - how do I join?

Mr. Guappa · 22-06-2019 7:31am

eabha19 wrote: »

Hi, I'm a late starter here after having this thread recommended to me by a friend - I tried to read all the messages but gave up at page 8! I'm 44, running 3 years (after 41 years of complete inactivity!!), and this will be my first (and probably only) marathon. My race times are approx 24 mins 30 secs for 5k, 54 mins for 10k and 1hr 59 for half marathon. I run 4 times a week with club running mates:
Mon - tempo or hills (8-10k)
Wed - speed intervals (5-8k)
Saturday - LSR
Sunday - 6k recovery

I can't always make club nights and tend to just do an easy 6k jog with the dog when I miss Monday or Wednesday nights.

Have been working up mileage with running mates and we are up to 24kms (that was tough going!). I tore my achilles 20 years ago doing step aerobics (so I might have stretched the truth on the complete inactivity but it was close!) and have ongoing ankle and heel issues - the long runs really affect it and at the minute I'm sore and have been for 2 weeks or so. I know the exercises I need to do but don't always get them done.

My goal is 4hr 30 and really to run the whole thing, even if very slowly. I haven't chosen a plan but I find 4 runs a week a challenge so not sure I could manage 5, certainly not every week. I have a holiday coming up in the sun in a week and expect to only do a couple of short easy runs for those two weeks. My nutrition is not good - I like sugary, crappy foods and I eat way too much on Saturdays to reward myself for those long runs! But I kind of run to eat - is that not the point?

Hi eabha19, welcome to the thread!

The first thing that strikes me is that you don't have enough easy running in your weekly schedule. Tempos, intervals and hills won't prepare you for your first marathon, lots and lots of easy miles will. You might find too that as you take the paces easier, that 5 days a week becomes a possibility as you won't be as tired as you currently would be after your sessions. The McMillan calculator puts your current paces at roughly 6:30/km for easy runs, and 6:45/km for long runs.

Try and do as much as you can on holidays, an easy 5k every second day, with a longer run each week might be manageable?

If those exercises you talk about help clear your ankle and heel issues then I'd be doing them as often as your supposed to - the increased mileage over the coming months will take it's toll on the body.

Improving your nutrition is also very important. Less junk; more fruit, vegetables etc. This wil improve your recovery after runs, and give you more energy for the next run. We all have our indulgences, but improvements in this area will pay dividends.

Our Strava group is here: https://www.strava.com/clubs/523351. Click the link to join, then drop myself, ReeReeG or Huzzah! a PM with your Strava name and we'll accept you in.

Mr. Guappa · 22-06-2019 8:14am

Bananaleaf wrote: »

Thank you both for replying so quickly and so indepthly. ReeReeG, the stages of the plan makes a lot of sense. Mr Guappa, thanks for your advice, yes it does sound like I am overcomplicating it.

For the other races I tried to stick to what the boards plan has suggested, so I am doing the race series 10km and half. I cant do the FD 10mile so instead I am doing the Kilcock 10mile the week before it instead.

The only other deviation from the plan I have is our club 5km on 28th June. I'm open to advice from the experts on whether I should just run this easy in place of Thursday's easy 3mile or if I could race it? Would rather not mess with the plan too much so if it's best not to race it that is grand.

I know you have said it's good to ask questions but at the same time I'm aware that I'm asking plenty so thank you again

Thanks Bananaleaf!

I think you can race that 5k. I'd drop the Thursday run as you suggest, and push the LSR to Sunday to allow the legs recover. I wouldn't advise the same for everyone, but you are building nicely and it's early enough in the plan, so I think it's ok. This is based on the assumption that Achill will be a LSR, and not something faster.

MY BAD · 22-06-2019 8:17am

I'm only catching up with this thread now. Good luck to everyone taking part, your in great hands. I'm looking forward to see everyones progress over the next few months. Some day I'll dip my toe in marathon training

eabha19 · 22-06-2019 10:05am

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

Hi eabha19, welcome to the thread!

The first thing that strikes me is that you don't have enough easy running in your weekly schedule. Tempos, intervals and hills won't prepare you for your first marathon, lots and lots of easy miles will. You might find too that as you take the paces easier, that 5 days a week becomes a possibility as you won't be as tired as you currently would be after your sessions. The McMillan calculator puts your current paces at roughly 6:30/km for easy runs, and 6:45/km for long runs.

Try and do as much as you can on holidays, an easy 5k every second day, with a longer run each week might be manageable?

If those exercises you talk about help clear your ankle and heel issues then I'd be doing them as often as your supposed to - the increased mileage over the coming months will take it's toll on the body.

Improving your nutrition is also very important. Less junk; more fruit, vegetables etc. This wil improve your recovery after runs, and give you more energy for the next run. We all have our indulgences, but improvements in this area will pay dividends.

Our Strava group is here: . Click the link to join, then drop myself, ReeReeG or Huzzah! a PM with your Strava name and we'll accept you in.

Thanks for that - makes sense about the easy runs. I probably could manage a work lunch time easy run in addition once a week but I have found that I've been tired and was worried about overdoing it. Just back from 22k on a beautiful morning, still can't fathom adding another 20 to that but step by step...

pd79 · 22-06-2019 10:21am

Looking forward to starting boards plan next week, last 5 weekends I've done 10k lsr, and few 2/3 5ks midweek, should I have being doing longer run at weekend ?

ReeReeG · 22-06-2019 11:36am

pd79 wrote:

Looking forward to starting boards plan next week, last 5 weekends I've done 10k lsr, and few 2/3 5ks midweek, should I have being doing longer run at weekend ?

Not at all, you should be fine to get to the next step of 8 miles next weekend! You'll be adding 1 mile to one of the midweek runs by the looks of it which you'll be fine with too.
Hope you're excited!

Soulsun · 22-06-2019 11:42am

Progress report ðŸ˜

Plan start of week
Tue 5km - Done
Wed 5km - Injured
Thur 5km - Injured
Sat LSR 10km - 13km Done

ReeReeG · 22-06-2019 11:47am

Soulsun wrote:

Plan start of week Tue 5km - Done Wed 5km - Injured Thur 5km - Injured Sat LSR 10km - 13km Done

What was the injury Soulsun?? Was the thinking behind doing 13km today?

Soulsun · 22-06-2019 11:52am

ReeReeG wrote: »

What was the injury Soulsun?? Was the thinking behind doing 13km today?

toe tendon keeps inflaming
once rested it appears to get "better"
13km thinking was I need to make progress on LSR any advice and feedback welcome ReeReeg

Irishder · 22-06-2019 11:53am

Hi All,
Bit of a race report for the Waterford viking 1/4 marathon. On the sound advice of the mentors here i decided to switch from the half to the quarter marathon distance. Race started at 9 so woke at 7:00 to get breakfast into me, porridge and a slice of toast. Get my gear on and left the house at 8:00, drove into the parking harea where there was quite a que, finally parked up and got the bus to the start line at about 8:20. Bus's where very well organised and we were at the start line in plenty of time. Walked around used the toilet for the 4th time!! and at about 8:50 got into the starting pen and got ready.

Mile 1. 9:39 Min/Mile avg HR 151
Start was fairly congested went up narrow enough roads but suited me fine as helped me control the pace some what! Great atmosphere around the town and a real buzz about the place.

Mile 2: 9:30 Min/Mile avg HR 170
This was running down the quay so plenty of support and more room to run, also so my two kids and wife at the end of it so that gave me a bit of a buzz. feeling good.

Mile 3: 9:50 Min/Mile Avg HR 170
Saw the 2:10 half marathon pacers so decided to stick in behind them, very little support at this side of the bridge. Seemed to get very warm here as well.

Mile 4: 9:50 Min/Mile Avg HR 178
Still with the half marathon pacers but working really hard as its a climb for the whole mile.

Mile 5: 10:17 Min/Mile Avg HR 178
Slowed down a bit after the hill as it took a bit out of me. feeling ok and nice views crossing the second bridge.

Mile 6: 10:24 Min/Mile Avg HR 176
Tried to get my hear rate down a bit so slowed a little. this was along the greenway, feeling ok but looking forward to the finish.

Mile 7: 10:31 Min/Mile Avg HR 183
Fairly steep hill here as you exit the greenway, struggled a bit but kept going. They were giving out jelly beans but found it hard to eat as my mouth was as dry as Gandi's slipper. Think they helped when i got them down.

Finish was in the WIT center bit of a climb up to it but head down, Max HR here was 191 which i felt! A photographer got a lovely pic of myself and my 2 lads at the ends so hopefully i will see that somewhere

Great day and really glad i opted for the 1/4 marathon, dont think i drank enough water in the morning and its hard to get it into you on the course. Event was very well run but the only complaint is it is very hard for spectators to get along the course, once you pass mile 2 there is practically no support.
The finish was great with loads of food and drink available as well as a bouncy castle for the kids.

Not my fastest 10K but i had a fasted mile of 9:15 somewhere out there.

Really appreciate the advice of the mentors and really looking forward to starting into the plan next week.

ReeReeG · 22-06-2019 12:10pm

Soulsun wrote:

toe tendon keeps inflaming once rested it appears to get "better" 13km thinking was I need to make progress on LSR any advice and feedback welcome ReeReeg

How is it now after the 13km?

Ok, I thought maybe you were chasing some of the missed miles. But yeah, probably no harm in increasing the LSR that little bit if the toe tendon was definitely ok.

ReeReeG · 22-06-2019 12:12pm

Irishder wrote:

Great day and really glad i opted for the 1/4 marathon, dont think i drank enough water in the morning and its hard to get it into you on the course. Event was very well run but the only complaint is it is very hard for spectators to get along the course, once you pass mile 2 there is practically no support. The finish was great with loads of food and drink available as well as a bouncy castle for the kids.

Well done Irishder! Sounds like a nice race! Rest up now before getting into the plan this week

eabha19 · 22-06-2019 12:26pm

Hi, my weekly mileage at the moment is 40k plus and long run is up to 22-24k. Should I step back a bit to follow the plan or keep the mileage up? Am thinking of trying the boards plan although was going to swap out the strides/tempo runs for a track night with the club and just roll in with whatever they have planned for that night. Is there a boards 2019 sheet on that link or is the boards 2018 the one to follow?

Soulsun · 22-06-2019 8:49pm

ReeReeG wrote: »

How is it now after the 13km?

Ok, I thought maybe you were chasing some of the missed miles. But yeah, probably no harm in increasing the LSR that little bit if the toe tendon was definitely ok.

it is okay strangely

was I chasing miles no...but i was trying to make hay while the sun shines...

rizzee · 22-06-2019 8:57pm

Just finished the Dunshaughlin 10km in a PB of 52:03. Really surprised myself, I think I could get closer to the 50 mark with more preparation as I don't feel as bad as I thought! 28:39 at the halfway split too. Delighted. Going to enjoy the rest tomorrow and get cracking on the 18 week plan with everyone next week.

py · 22-06-2019 9:06pm

Curious to know if any of those prior marathoners changed their diet? or added anything to it? more protein?

Bananaleaf · 22-06-2019 9:18pm

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

Thanks Bananaleaf!

I think you can race that 5k. I'd drop the Thursday run as you suggest, and push the LSR to Sunday to allow the legs recover. I wouldn't advise the same for everyone, but you are building nicely and it's early enough in the plan, so I think it's ok. This is based on the assumption that Achill will be a LSR, and not something faster.

Thanks MrGuappa

Hopefully I am able to push on Friday and try for a good time. I'm awful nervous about it, it being my club race.

Achill will be a LSR. I'm thinking close to this pace https://www.strava.com/activities/2455484454 or possibly a fraction faster (like 5seconds per km faster)

Am sitting with a cup of tea now, planning the first weeks runs, where I'll do the LSR and strides, reading up on strides, watching videos on strides.... I really hope this enthusiasm continues :pac:

Singer · 22-06-2019 9:29pm

py wrote: »

Curious to know if any of those prior marathoners changed their diet? or added anything to it? more protein?

Marathon training just needs a reasonably balanced diet that includes protein and carbohydrates. It doesn’t particularly need a “healthy” diet - replacing your morning Coco-pops with organic chia pudding won’t really help you run faster. Losing a bit of weight can help of course, but dietary changes needs to be balanced against having the fuel to do the training. Overall I’d recommend no extreme changes, but some small lifestyle changes can help a bit.

DCM 2019 - Mentored Novices Thread

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