DCM 2019 - Mentored Novices Thread

Bananaleaf · 16-06-2019 10:23am

Slowmojo wrote: »

I know many of you will be reeling thinking I’m not able for DCM (1st marathon) but all I want to do is get around the course before they roll up the finish Mat and would be delighted to complete even if it takes 10 hours. Please don’t shoot down my dreams just yet!

I was actually thinking 'wow, how amazing it is going to be for this person in a few months when they have totally transformed their running and they can call themselves a marathoner!'

Fellow slo-mo here - welcome to the club!

Mr. Guappa · 16-06-2019 12:23pm

Slowmojo wrote: »

Right, time to introduce myself.

I’m slowmojo and I really and truly am a slow runner.

There was a time ~15 years ago when I could run fast and enjoyably. Then my mental health took a bit of a beating, which also affected my physical health, resulting in huge weight gain. Running went out the window.

I’ve come on leaps and bounds in the last while and my partner bought me an entry to DCM as a present to encourage me further. Still carrying a lot of extra kilos but they too will go eventually.

I haven’t much running done in the last number of years but will be slowly building back up to it. I’m not running 5K yet so both plans are a little beyond my scope yet. I have no times from races to go off so am just going out at a v slow pace (9:30 Km pace, yes other peoples slow mile pace is my KM pace!) but I’m delighted I’m able to get out there. I’m not working currently so have plenty of time on my hands and tipping away at it. I’m working through C25K and nearly there, still taking breaks but that’s ok as realistically I’ll be taking walking breaks in DCM too.

I know many of you will be reeling thinking I’m not able for DCM (1st marathon) but all I want to do is get around the course before they roll up the finish Mat and would be delighted to complete even if it takes 10 hours. Please don’t shoot down my dreams just yet!

I’ll be following along here although I won’t have much to contribute and I think I’m a slightly different case so not sure how much of the mentoring will apply but I’m determined to keep putting one foot in front of the other and getting out there.

Best of luck to all you speedy people!!

Welcome along Slowmojo!

I'm definitely not going to shoot down your dreams - you seem aware of the size of the task ahead, and you don't have unreasonable expectations when it comes to finishing times etc. Obviously, it's important to point out that going from a base of < 5k to marathon distance in less than 5 months is a mammoth undertaking. I would advise to have a secondary goal for this year just in case the marathon proves a step too far on this occasion.

What you've done so far is a huge win. Even thinking about completing a marathon is a huge step. Build gradually and consistently from where you are now and you can complete the 26+ miles come October.

To show that you wouldn't be alone on the day, I've taken a look at some statistics from last years race:
- 1,266 people finished the race in between 6 and 7 hours
- 450 people finished the race in 7 hours plus, with the final four crossing the line in 9 hours 15 minutes.

That's a hell of a long time to be on your feet! Do you think you could walk 26 miles? Do you think, with some training, that you could run/walk 26 miles? If you think it sounds achievable, then you can become a marathoner. It won't be easy, but it can be done.

Plenty of the tips and advice here will be relevant to you - none of us are elites, we're all just different levels of hobby joggers/runners trying to improve ourselves. Welcome aboard!

Treviso · 16-06-2019 2:30pm

Before I started running, the thought of chocolate milk repulsed me, even though I have a sweet tooth.
I tried it a few weeks back after a run and must say how nice and refreshing it was. Now I get a serious craving for it as I complete my last mile in every run.
I would recommend everyone to try it once again, if like me, you told yourself you didn't like it. It does a lot to help you recover if taken 30mins after your run

DBB · 16-06-2019 3:15pm

Slowmojo wrote: »

Right, time to introduce myself.

I’m slowmojo and I really and truly am a slow runner.

There was a time ~15 years ago when I could run fast and enjoyably. Then my mental health took a bit of a beating, which also affected my physical health, resulting in huge weight gain. Running went out the window.

I’ve come on leaps and bounds in the last while and my partner bought me an entry to DCM as a present to encourage me further. Still carrying a lot of extra kilos but they too will go eventually.

You, slowmojo, are a legend

I've so much admiration for anyone who can fight the battles you've fought, and come out the other side with fight in your heart to make things good again. You're an inspiration

Before I started running, the thought of chocolate milk repulsed me, even though I have a sweet tooth.
I tried it a few weeks back after a run and must say how nice and refreshing it was. Now I get a serious craving for it as I complete my last mile in every run.
I would recommend everyone to try it once again, if like me, you told yourself you didn't like it. It does a lot to help you recover if taken 30mins after your run

I've lactose intolerance, so although I love chocolate milk, if I want something similar, I've to mix a protein shake or hot choc powder into lactose-free milk

We keep hens, turkeys and geese. My post-run protein hit, without fail, is a fresh-as-can-be scrambled hen, turkey or goose egg. Like that, I actually find myself reeeeeally looking forward to it as I run the last bit home

skyblue46 · 16-06-2019 3:32pm

DBB wrote: »

You, slowmojo, are a legend
I've so much admiration for anyone who can fight the battles you've fought, and come out the other side with fight in your heart to make things good again. You're an inspiration

I've lactose intolerance, so although I love chocolate milk, if I want something similar, I've to mix a protein shake or hot choc powder into lactose-free milk
We keep hens, turkeys and geese. My post-run protein hit, without fail, is a fresh-as-can-be scrambled hen, turkey or goose egg. Like that, I actually find myself reeeeeally looking forward to it as I run the last bit home

Just to mention here that some brands of chocolate milk have the required 3 or 4:1 ratio of carbs: protein that has been commonly agreed to be best for food/drinks consumed within 30 minutes of finishing exercise....the earlier the better.

Having only protein or a predominantly protein food/ drink can actually inhibit the recovery process. Eggs which have approximately 1:6 carb: protein ratio are absolutely the wrong immediate post run snack on their own. They would need to be eaten with fruit and veg to increase the carb content of the snack. The higher levels of protein can be consumed in the hours after your run.

https://runnersconnect.net/what-is-good-to-eat-after-a-run/

Here is a simple enough explanation and a few snack ideas.

DBB · 16-06-2019 3:50pm

skyblue46 wrote: »

Having only protein or a predominantly protein food/ drink can actually inhibit the recovery process. Eggs which have approximately 1:6 carb: protein ratio are absolutely the wrong immediate post run snack on their own.

I will often eat my scrambled or poached egg with toast or a potato waffle, which I guess will bring the carb level up.
I wonder though, how does this square away with those who support a low carb/high protein/high (good) fat diet for endurance sports?

skyblue46 · 16-06-2019 3:59pm

DBB wrote: »

I will often eat my scrambled or poached egg with toast or a potato waffle, which I guess will bring the carb level up.
I wonder though, how does this square away with those who support a low carb/high protein/high (good) fat diet for endurance sports?

At a guess the amount that you would consume in that half hour window is quite a small proportion of the overall diet. It simply kick starts recovery.

Remember also that nutrients are very important for recovery too. Fruit and veg contain these aplenty, simple carbs like bread and pasta don't.

Mr. Guappa · 16-06-2019 5:29pm

ONE WEEK TO GO!!!

So, it is now just one week until the plans kick off. This is NOT the time to put the feet up and relax. Some of you have done a great job so far of building mileage and getting used to running 4 or 5 days a week - nice work! Others - not so much.

The marathon is a great day. Finishing the marathon is a fantastic achievement - but you cannot expect to run a marathon if you don't commit to the training. You'll be in for a world of hurt come October 27th.

I'm very concerned that some of you are not running regularly enough, and not running far enough. 2-3 miles twice a week will not make you a marathoner.
Some of you haven't logged any miles all week - what's the story there?

Use this next week wisely. If you are one of those running 4-5 times a week, and close to 20 miles per week, just keep that up this week - you're doing fine. If you are somewhere less than that - get running. Run more this week than you did last week. There's still plenty time left today to get some miles in - get the runners on and get out the door!

And keep it EASY. Any queries, concerns, thoughts - just ask!

ReeReeG · 16-06-2019 5:39pm

Mr. Guappa wrote:

Use this next week wisely. If you are one of those running 4-5 times a week, and close to 20 miles per week, just keep that up this week - you're doing fine.If you are somewhere less than that - get running. Run more this week than you did last week

But a sensible amount more, say 10%

rizzee · 16-06-2019 7:16pm

Managed 25km this week (7/8/5/5) and plan on 2 runs and a football session between tomorrow and Thursday, rest day Friday and Dunshaughlin 10km Saturday. Rest next Sunday and the 18 week plan begins

py · 16-06-2019 7:32pm

This week will be:

Monday: 5-10Km easy
Tuesday: 5Km easy
Wednesday: Rest, not even going to commute on the bike
Thursday: Docklands 5Km, run like hell
Friday: Rest
Saturday: Parkrun plus some more as part of a LSR
Sunday: Junior Parkrun

Doc76 · 17-06-2019 6:40am

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

ONE WEEK TO GO!!!

Use this next week wisely. If you are one of those running 4-5 times a week, and close to 20 miles per week, just keep that up this week - you're doing fine. If you are somewhere less than that - get running. Run more this week than you did last week. There's still plenty time left today to get some miles in - get the runners on and get out the door!

And keep it EASY. Any queries, concerns, thoughts - just ask!

I am running a bit over 20 mpw at the moment and feeling good... thinking I might switch from HH novice 1 to novice 2 or do a bit of a hybrid? Running very slow on easy runs which makes this seem possible and also might give me more confidence on race day having the extra mileage?

Ballybog · 17-06-2019 7:40am

Treviso wrote: »

Before I started running, the thought of chocolate milk repulsed me, even though I have a sweet tooth.
I tried it a few weeks back after a run and must say how nice and refreshing it was. Now I get a serious craving for it as I complete my last mile in every run.
I would recommend everyone to try it once again, if like me, you told yourself you didn't like it. It does a lot to help you recover if taken 30mins after your run

That's so funny Treviso, as my kids have chocolate milk as a treat and even the thought of if makes me shudder. But, seeing as everyone here is talking about it, I'll give it a go next weekend after my long(ish) run

Mr. Guappa · 17-06-2019 10:10am

Doc76 wrote: »

I am running a bit over 20 mpw at the moment and feeling good... thinking I might switch from HH novice 1 to novice 2 or do a bit of a hybrid? Running very slow on easy runs which makes this seem possible and also might give me more confidence on race day having the extra mileage?

Would you consider the Boards plan? It's pretty similar mileage and structure wise to the HHN2. There's an extra 2-3 mile recovery run (very gentle pace) of a Sunday alright on the boards plan.

jackc101 · 17-06-2019 11:12am

Hey all,
Not quite a novice but DCM would be my second marathon and I feel I have a huge amount to learn from all here. Was over the moon to finish Cork after failing to get to the start in 2018. Will be trying to get the tickets on 1 July (I was unsure if I'd every put the trainers on again after doing Cork

)

Have you raced before? 4:35 Cork marathon 02/06/2019
Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? No
How much training do you currently do ? I'm currently letting my body recover from Cork, so just ticking over, very gentle jogging every 2/3 days.
I followed the Hal Hidgeon Novice plan and it worked a treat for me (I stretched it out over more months to accommodate holidays and physio "breaks") I was a bit lackadaisical with the cross training in patches but my physio read me the riot act and I'm all the better for it but my poor ar$e from the bike...
What do you want to achieve? In order; finish, finish faster than Cork, break 4 hours (dream)
How many days a week can you train? And what plan do you intend to follow? Open to suggestion here (I'm an early morning runner, kids, etc...)
What is your biggest worry/fear/doubt Injury is always a concern, tried to train up to Cork 2018 and it was too much, too soon and had to reset to 2019. Nipped Plantar fasciitis in the bud with physio just in time this year
Why are you running this marathon? Keep up the health benefits, see if there is another marathon in the tank.

Doc76 · 17-06-2019 11:20am

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

Would you consider the Boards plan? It's pretty similar mileage and structure wise to the HHN2. There's an extra 2-3 mile recovery run (very gentle pace) of a Sunday alright on the boards plan.

Thanks I’ll take another look at that plan as would be nice to coordinate with others on this board. Initially I was intimidated by the distances of the LSRs but maybe could give it a go and scale back to HH2 LSRs if need be...

Ballybog · 17-06-2019 2:44pm

I'm still indecisive of the plan that I should be going ... I have a busy life (like all of us) with two kids, full time job with a long commute, so need to try to figure out who to fit it all in without causing too much havoc with the family

I'm leaning towards the Hal Higdon plan and have converted this to KM. However I had to switch things around a bit to fit the weekly fitness class in. Would you Mr Guappa take a look to make sure I have it all done correctly so I don't start with the wrong foot ?
How do I attach or show an excel here ?

DeepBlue · 17-06-2019 3:49pm

Ballybog wrote: »

How do I attach or show an excel here ?

When adding a reply you should see an "Additional options" panel if you scroll down the screen.
That has a "Manage Attachments" button. Click that and browse to your excel file to add it to your post.

Ballybog · 17-06-2019 3:55pm

Does this work, training plan in km attached (I hope !)

Mr. Guappa · 17-06-2019 4:21pm

Ballybog wrote: »

Does this work, training plan in km attached (I hope !)

Unless I'm overlooking something, you've just moved Tues->Mon and Weds->Tues? That seems fine to me.

I work shift and have to move around my runs a lot. The key is to keep the hard days apart. The hard days in your plan are the Saturday LSR, and the longest of the midweek runs (Wednesday on original plan). You've kept two clear days between those runs to allow sufficient recovery, so I'm happy with that.

People will always have to move runs around to accommodate work/life/occasions. In those instances, try and plan ahead where possible, and avoid stacking harder days on top of each other.

Ballybog · 17-06-2019 4:24pm

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

Unless I'm overlooking something, you've just moved Tues->Mon and Weds->Tues? That seems fine to me.

I work shift and have to move around my runs a lot. The key is to keep the hard days apart. The hard days in your plan are the Saturday LSR, and the longest of the midweek runs (Wednesday on original plan). You've kept two clear days between those runs to allow sufficient recovery, so I'm happy with that.

People will always have to move runs around to accommodate work/life/occasions. In those instances, try and plan ahead where possible, and avoid stacking harder days on top of each other.

Love it, thanks for the reply

Wasn't sure which sessions should be separated, but now that you said it, it makes perfect sense.

I tend to make things over-complicated, so I'm going to stick the runners on and go for a SLOW run

Mr. Guappa · 17-06-2019 4:26pm

Ballybog wrote: »

Love it, thanks for the reply Wasn't sure which sessions should be separated, but now that you said it, it makes perfect sense.

I tend to make things over-complicated, so I'm going to stick the runners on and go for a SLOW run

Enjoy

Supercell · 17-06-2019 4:47pm

This will be my third attempt to get to the starting line in the last three years.
Two years ago I go struck by a car a few days after doing my second longest run (18 miles), last year I tore a calf muscle doing a long run (self inflicted - had being doing calf raises too aggressively during the week before).
Earlier this year I was tipping along nicely until I tore a medial meniscus (when doing deep squats) in my left knee and had surgery a month ago to repair it..
My surgeon says no reason I shouldn't be able for DCM this year. I've just got back to running short (around 5k) distance in the last week and knowing how training has progressed before I'm confident i'll make it as long as the knees hold up, albeit significantly slower than before.

So to the questions! :

1)Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!) 10k 44:22 (Howth Fat Turkey 2018), Half 1:38:22 (Wicklow Gaol Break Half 2019)

2)Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? (No problem if you do) - No

3)How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.- every other day 5 k , but should hoping to be able to ramp up fairly quickly as my fitness not entirely lost from pre-knee op training.

4)What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time? Dream 3:40, realistically with the knee 3:59:59 will do!

5)How many days a week can you train? And what plan do you intend to follow? 4 days a week

6)What is your biggest worry/fear/doubt (if you have any!) in signing up? My other knee going! I've done the training before so know whats coming, if i get to the start line, I'll finish

7)Why are you running this marathon? Because I'm buggered if I'm giving up after being hit by a car and having knee surgery, i'll be trying again next year if I don't make it this time!

Sorbet · 17-06-2019 5:13pm

Conscious I haven't posted in a while so a quick question on the slow running that's been troubling me.......

When I took up running 12 months ago a few of us from work used to tear around at lunchtime as fast as we could, dropping each other as we went (not the most social running scene I know :rolleyes:) but I was able to work up to doing a sub 25 5k fairly easily - best Garmin clocked time was 22:24.

I'm now a much more evolved individual (!) and do nearly all my runs 6:00 min per km or slower (6:45 for the lsr). Really enjoying it and building distance which is the goal but I really feel that I'd have no hope of running 5K under 5 minutes a km (struggled failed today to hang on to some work colleagues who I don't always run with

).

Is this a normal experience when running slow for some time? Not necessarily a problem, I'm just a bit worried that when the time comes for me to up it to "planned marathon pace" that I won't have a faster gear. Or could it be that my LSR is not slow enough?

I should add, I'm not daring to question the benefits of running slow - I am a convert, just looking for some reassurance!

clickhere · 17-06-2019 5:26pm

Sorbet wrote: »

Conscious I haven't posted in a while so a quick question on the slow running that's been troubling me.......

When I took up running 12 months ago a few of us from work used to tear around at lunchtime as fast as we could, dropping each other as we went (not the most social running scene I know :rolleyes:) but I was able to work up to doing a sub 25 5k fairly easily - best Garmin clocked time was 22:24.

I'm now a much more evolved individual (!) and do nearly all my runs 6:00 min per km or slower (6:45 for the lsr). Really enjoying it and building distance which is the goal but I really feel that I'd have no hope of running 5K under 5 minutes a km (struggled failed today to hang on to some work colleagues who I don't always run with ).

Is this a normal experience when running slow for some time? Not necessarily a problem, I'm just a bit worried that when the time comes for me to up it to "planned marathon pace" that I won't have a faster gear. Or could it be that my LSR is not slow enough?

I should add, I'm not daring to question the benefits of running slow - I am a convert, just looking for some reassurance!

I have been doing the LSR the past few weeks and decided to do the park run last weekend. I was wondering like yourself if I could pick up the pace. I matched my PB which I set 5 years ago. Delighted with the time.

Mr. Guappa · 17-06-2019 5:41pm

Supercell wrote: »

This will be my third attempt to get to the starting line in the last three years.
Two years ago I go struck by a car a few days after doing my second longest run (18 miles), last year I tore a calf muscle doing a long run (self inflicted - had being doing calf raises too aggressively during the week before).
Earlier this year I was tipping along nicely until I tore a medial meniscus (when doing deep squats) in my left knee and had surgery a month ago to repair it..
My surgeon says no reason I shouldn't be able for DCM this year. I've just got back to running short (around 5k) distance in the last week and knowing how training has progressed before I'm confident i'll make it as long as the knees hold up, albeit significantly slower than before.

So to the questions! :

1)Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!) 10k 44:22 (Howth Fat Turkey 2018), Half 1:38:22 (Wicklow Gaol Break Half 2019)

2)Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? (No problem if you do) - No

3)How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.- every other day 5 k , but should hoping to be able to ramp up fairly quickly as my fitness not entirely lost from pre-knee op training.

4)What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time? Dream 3:40, realistically with the knee 3:59:59 will do!

5)How many days a week can you train? And what plan do you intend to follow? 4 days a week

6)What is your biggest worry/fear/doubt (if you have any!) in signing up? My other knee going! I've done the training before so know whats coming, if i get to the start line, I'll finish

7)Why are you running this marathon? Because I'm buggered if I'm giving up after being hit by a car and having knee surgery, i'll be trying again next year if I don't make it this time!

Welcome back Supercell! Sorry to hear about your most recent knee issue - I had noticed the lack of activity on strava alright.

I'm sure at this stage you know what advice is coming - SLOW WAY DOWN

You run everything at far too fast a pace. Trust the plan. Trust the advice. Slow Down.

You have the speed to run a cracking marathon. Do things right and it will be third time lucky.

ByrneDCMbrian · 17-06-2019 8:12pm

Hi folks was only told about this yesterday so sorry for the late reply Brian

Yes I've race before: 5km is 22:10, 10km is 46:38
Half is 1:44:27 all new pbs this year
3 marathons done Dublin twice and Manchester quickest was 4:38 and other 2 where just under the 5hrs mark

Since November last year I've been training 4 days a week which I'm still doing between 25/ 35 miles a week depending on distances .

Hoping to go 4 hrs for this year DCM feel like I can went out last week and did 13 miles @ 8.40 per mile and felt very comfortable.

I'm going to go with the the boards 2019 plan.feel I can keep up with that

The biggest fear I have is I fall apart after 20 miles which has happen all 3 times. But this year feels different as have training plan I use to just go out the door and run which was the best approach.
I'm running this to prove to myself I can go under the 4 hrs

Thanks for reading and good luck everyone

kyomi · 17-06-2019 9:39pm

Hi everyone, just an update on the week's training. After running last week's LSR a bit too hard and suffering for it in subsequent days, I eased off a bit by skipping a day's training and making the rest of my runs very easy. I did 12 miles yesterday at over 10 min/mile and felt fine afterwards, so I'm back to normal and ready to face this week's training. Did 31 miles in total last week.

I ran the parkrun on Saturday by heart rate for the first time (usually when I do it slowly I'm looking at pace rather than heart rate). I found it much more difficult to keep my heart rate within the aerobic zone than I generally do on my easy runs, probably because of all the people around me and the temptation to overtake! I kept having to slow down. But I managed to do it and all three miles were around 9 minutes, which is a big improvement for me (when I first started running by heart rate, I would have been running at more than 10 minute miles to stay within the aerobic zone).

This week is a step-back week for me, with 23 miles planned in total. I'm doing the Pride run on Friday and all the other runs will be easy.

DeepBlue · 17-06-2019 10:03pm

Just a query about easy pace. I'm currently running (or at least trying to run) my easy runs at about 2 mins/mile slower than PMP. I got this pace from tinman's calculator.

But the boards plan says to run your easy runs 45s to 1 min slower than PMP.
My easy pace is about 10.15 -10.05 min/miles while PMP would be about 8.10 -8.05 (estimated).
Should I be speeding up my easy runs or staying as I am?

skyblue46 · 17-06-2019 10:25pm

DeepBlue wrote: »

Just a query about easy pace. I'm currently running (or at least trying to run) my easy runs at about 2 mins/mile slower than PMP. I got this pace from tinman's calculator.

But the boards plan says to run your easy runs 45s to 1 min slower than PMP.
My easy pace is about 10.15 -10.05 min/miles while PMP would be about 8.10 -8.05 (estimated).
Should I be speeding up my easy runs or staying as I am?

If there is that much difference then your planned MP doesn't tally with your past race times. What time did you input to get your easy pace? Where is the 3:30 ish target coming from?

DCM 2019 - Mentored Novices Thread

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