Fetal calf/bovine serum - just when you thought dairy couldn't get any worse.

auspicious · 11-11-2019 6:45pm #1

For shame!

'The fetus must be alive during this operation, since blood starts clotting immediately after death, making extraction difficult. The article negates two claims: that underdevelopment dampens the pain, and that being cut off from the mother results in anoxia which acts as an anaesthetic. Both cases, undeveloped nervous system and anoxia, is more likely to increase the pain.'

https://www.new-harvest.org/the_use_of_fetal_bovine_serum_ethical_or_scientific_problem

https://m.facebook.com/VeggieNortherIreland/posts/1542886189089136

Lady Haywire · 11-11-2019 7:04pm

Why your focus on dairy? Nowhere does it say that it's just dairy cattle used and it's highly unlikely to be a farmer extracting it himself for shíts & giggles either. One could also argue the point that as the fetus wasn't going to survive once the cow was dead anyway, and it's going to be a useful product (it appears to be used in vaccines) then why not use it.
Of course a synthetic version would be much better- along the same lines as how pig insulin has now been changed to a synthetic version.

But fetal bovine serum (FBS), a blood byproduct of the meat industry, is a crucial building block for vaccines.

FBS also plays a huge role in biopharmaceuticals, also known as biologics, which have amazing potential. Made from sources such as living cells, tissue or FBS, they show promise for treating diseases like cancer or rheumatoid arthritis because they so closely mimic the human body’s own defense mechanisms. They can provide an ailing body with key proteins (such as antibodies), sugars or nucleic acids (including DNA and RNA). This new class of drug is also very popular, accounting for seven of the top 10 bestselling drugs.

http://newsroom.gehealthcare.com/zealand-company-truth-serum-biopharmaceuticals/

Also you're not supposed to send incalf animals to the factory, I definitely wouldn't. So don't assume it goes on everywhere.

auspicious · 11-11-2019 7:15pm

Ethical alternatives.

A number of chemically defined serum-free media formulations have been developed in the last two decades.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://scholar.google.com/scholar%3Fq%3Dfetal%2Bbovine%2Bserum%2Bethical%2Balternatives%26hl%3Den%26as_sdt%3D0%26as_vis%3D1%26oi%3Dscholart&ved=2ahUKEwjO0_634OLlAhVAVhUIHSt1B6EQgQN6BAgBEAE&usg=AOvVaw0HiM_YvMhKviwcnOaL-4Od&cshid=1573496213564

Lady Haywire · 11-11-2019 7:18pm

auspicious wrote: »

Ethical alternatives.

A number of chemically defined serum-free media formulations have been developed in the last two decades.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://scholar.google.com/scholar%3Fq%3Dfetal%2Bbovine%2Bserum%2Bethical%2Balternatives%26hl%3Den%26as_sdt%3D0%26as_vis%3D1%26oi%3Dscholart&ved=2ahUKEwjO0_634OLlAhVAVhUIHSt1B6EQgQN6BAgBEAE&usg=AOvVaw0HiM_YvMhKviwcnOaL-4Od&cshid=1573496213564

And that's great!

Still not sure why you're connecting it with dairy though. Scientists, yes. .

auspicious · 11-11-2019 7:33pm

Lady Haywire wrote: »

Also you're not supposed to send incalf animals to the factory, I definitely wouldn't. So don't assume it goes on everywhere.

On average 3pc of dairy cows, 1.5pc of beef cattle, 0.5pc of pigs, 0.8pc sheep and 0.2pc of goats in the EU are slaughtered during the last third of gestation, according to an expert judgement from the European Food Safety Authority (EFSA).

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/want-to-know-how-many-dairy-cows-are-in-your-county/

Being conservative and saying 400,000 dairy cows slaughtered a year in Ireland. 3% is 12,000 heavily pregnant cows slaughtered.

Lady Haywire · 11-11-2019 7:49pm

auspicious wrote: »

On average 3pc of dairy cows, 1.5pc of beef cattle, 0.5pc of pigs, 0.8pc sheep and 0.2pc of goats in the EU are slaughtered during the last third of gestation, according to an expert judgement from the European Food Safety Authority (EFSA).

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/want-to-know-how-many-dairy-cows-are-in-your-county/

Being conservative and saying 400,000 dairy cows slaughtered a year in Ireland. 3% is 12,000 heavily pregnant cows slaughtered.

I would really find it hard to believe that many dairy cows are slaughtered each year, considering there's only 1.5m in the country.Getting rid of almost a quarter of the national herd each year? Preposterous.

Here's the national kill numbers. Each of those 1.5m dairy cows has a calf, which is reared for beef, not to mention the beef cattle. Even if factoring in mortality & exports, the numbers wouldn't tally up to 400k. I'm sure there's a way of finding out but throwing out numbers and blaming one sector is nothing but hyperbole.
https://statbank.cso.ie/multiquicktables/quickTables.aspx?id=adm01

auspicious · 11-11-2019 7:52pm

Maybe my figures aren't exact, and most of that 3% happens in countries other than Ireland, and they weren't known to be pregnant, and it was a mistake to send them to slaughter, and yes some farmers feel bad.
The fact remains it still happens. It still happens because people buy meat and milk etc.
3% of millions is a lot.

Lady Haywire · 11-11-2019 7:56pm

auspicious wrote: »

Maybe my figures aren't exact, and most of that 3% happens in countries other than Ireland, and they weren't known to be pregnant, and it was a mistake to send them to slaughter, and yes some farmers feel bad.
The fact remains it still happens. It still happens because people buy meat and milk etc.
3% of billions is a lot.

If they were taking this FBV for no good reason, I'd agree with you. But as it appears to be done for the greater good (even if an alternative exists- perhaps it's not as good) then there's reason for it.

auspicious · 11-11-2019 8:29pm

Lady Haywire wrote: »

I'm sure there's a way of finding out but throwing out numbers and blaming one sector is nothing but hyperbole.

Yeah I'd say it's closer to 120/130,000.

auspicious · 12-11-2019 12:20am

- New Zealand-

While the practice is legal, an industry whistleblower says it frequently causes unnecessary suffering, as the pregnant cows are confined in trucks or left standing for long periods.

Some even gave birth in transit or at the yards, a breach of animal welfare regulations. Pregnant cows are not supposed to be transported in their last month of gestation...

...some farmers may legitimately have miscalculated a cow's pregnancy...

... And that cow has already given her life to produce milk, I just don't see how they justify it. I think it's an appalling practice...

...Each calf heart produces about 300ml. Farmers are believed to receive about $50 extra per harvest...

... the uterus containing the foetus is cut from the cow's body after it is killed and hung on a hook...

... we're not talking about non-sentient beings. We're talking about animals that can feel pain and distress, and also have the capacity to feel positive emotions...

... [ Ministry for Primary Industries ( new Zealand ) ] said welfare regulations would be strengthened into law on October 1 to make calving within 24 hours of going to the meatworks punishable by fine or infringement.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12113527

Snails pace · 12-11-2019 8:45pm

Is this practice happening in Ireland as we speak of ?

auspicious · 12-11-2019 10:05pm

--The 30 countries where FBS is collected all have in common their freedom from the major contagious viral diseases of cattle, such as Foot and Mouth Disease (FMD), Rinderpest, Peste des petits ruminants, and Rift Valley Fever.-- see first attachment

--Serum is the centrifuged fluid component of either clotted or defibrinated whole blood.--
--Bovine serum is a by-product of the meat industry. Bovine blood may be taken at the time of
slaughter, from adult cattle, calves, very young calves or (when cows that are slaughtered are
subsequently found to be pregnant) from bovine fetuses.--
pdf
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.serumindustry.org/documents/sera20110511_000.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjai67oyOXlAhUMUcAKHcbxBcUQFjAAegQIAhAB&usg=AOvVaw0mZz-cLeVgSOVPjcNHv_A9

gozunda · 14-11-2019 1:39am

auspicious - In the absence of a sythenthic alternative - I presume you would be against human vaccinations made using this?

And no I'm not defending the practice of using calves etc - just wondering where you stand on the issue of the vaccines manufactured from this type of serum.

auspicious · 14-11-2019 8:57am

''The results indicate that some of these sera had growth promoting capabilities comparable or superior to that of FBS. Additionally, these alternative sera supported long-term (30 passages) growth of tested cells and exhibited plating efficiencies comparable to that of FBS.

These FBS alternatives are more readily available, cost less, and are associated with less ethical concerns, thus making them attractive alternatives to FBS in cell culture systems.'

Competing interests: The authors have declared that no competing interests exist....

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0178960

auspicious · 14-11-2019 3:10pm

gozunda wrote: »

auspicious - In the absence of a sythenthic alternative - I presume you would be against human vaccinations made using this?

And no I'm not defending the practice of using calves etc - just wondering where you stand on the issue of the vaccines manufactured from this type of serum.

Vaccines are important no doubt and I'll hope you agree this source to formulate them is wholly abhorrent. But in certain cases needs must unfortunately.
As there are alternatives available we should all endeavour to highlight the issue wherever possible and push the pursuit of ethical standards.

Lady Haywire · 14-11-2019 8:25pm

I literally knew nothing of this happening until you said it here, I've also worked in a meat factory. Irish farmers more than likely don't know about this, plus AFAIK we're not being paid for it.

Fetal calf/bovine serum - just when you thought dairy couldn't get any worse.

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