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Cyclists should be "taken out and shot"

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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 47,982 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    plus, i can just imagine the daily mail disappearing in a big cloud of ireful logic. they wouldn't know whether to run a 'WELCOME CLAMPDOWN ON HATEFUL CYCLISTS' or 'MEDDLING GOVERNMENT TRYING TO CONTROL SIMPLE THINGS LIKE CYCLING' headlines.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    I do think that while mol is engaging in his usual theatrics, he had a point

    You just can't consign car usage with a blasé " I'm done with cars - Owen keeghan " approach. You have to accept the are and will remain the majority mode of transport for people. You have to plan to integrate them into the city centre not exclude them.

    Dcc attitude to all electric cars for example is appalling compared to other CoCos ( and his old DL coco )


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,148 ✭✭✭✭Lemming


    Grandeeod wrote: »
    Why?

    There are reasons why we license motor vehicles. It's a bit obvious, as in Captain-Obvious obvious. There are also reasons why we restrict the age requirements in order to even apply for said licenses. Again, because it's all rather obvious. The requirement for motor insurance extends from all of the above due to the financial and legal implications of what may happen if a motor vehicle is not handled with sufficient care & attention.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,148 ✭✭✭✭Lemming


    BoatMad wrote: »
    I do think that while mol is engaging in his usual theatrics, he had a point

    You just can't consign car usage with a blasé " I'm done with cars - Owen keeghan " approach. You have to accept the are and will remain the majority mode of transport for people. You have to plan to integrate them into the city centre not exclude them.

    Dcc attitude to all electric cars for example is appalling compared to other CoCos ( and his old DL coco )

    The reason why MoL is p1ssing & moaning is because the bus lanes that taxis are eligible to use, are also designated cycle lanes in the absence of other cycle lane infrastructure. Thus those pesky cyclists are "getting in MoL's way" when he is abusing a taxi licence to dodge traffic.

    And he wants some free press for his company.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    Lemming wrote: »
    There are reasons why we license motor vehicles. It's a bit obvious, as in Captain-Obvious obvious. There are also reasons why we restrict the age requirements in order to even apply for said licenses. Again, because it's all rather obvious. The requirement for motor insurance extends from all of the above due to the financial and legal implications of what may happen if a motor vehicle is not handled with sufficient care & attention.

    I think most agree with the idea that insurance is nonsense. You might as well suggest walking should be insured

    Bycycles however should be registered and display such registration.


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 47,982 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    again, a $50 solution to a $5 problem. we'd just need to wait six months to find out how much maintaining such a system costs the country before it'd need to be scrapped again.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,910 ✭✭✭PeadarCo


    BoatMad wrote:
    Bycycles however should be registered and display such registration.

    How would that help road safety?

    Grand cyclists break the rules of the road but so does every other mode of transport. Given that the amount of deaths and serious injuries caused by cyclists are negligible why go through the cost of setting up and maintaining a database for it. The money would be far better spend on improved roads etc. Thats before you talk about decreasing both recreational and commuting usage of bikes and related health benefits.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,148 ✭✭✭✭Lemming


    BoatMad wrote: »
    Bycycles however should be registered and display such registration.

    And how might one do this in a manner that doesn't involve having sharp edges hanging off the edge of bicycles? And given that bicycles don't have VINs .... prove that registration number belongs to that bicycle.

    And again, what happens when the cyclist is under the age of eighteen? How to you legally register a bike to them?


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,460 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    I don't mind the idea of cyclists registration, however it would absolutely kill off Dublin Bikes, which I don't think would be a great thing. I'd be interested in knowing how many of those 600 fines were given to DB 'cyclists' as I have the feeling it'd be a high enough amount of them.

    Separately, it's still my belief that we need to change some of the rules for cyclists to create a consistent, yet reasonable, set that is safer for everyone - pedestrians are allowed the leeway to jaywalk, for example, because in most cases it is safe and reasonable.


  • Registered Users Posts: 935 ✭✭✭Roadhawk


    you know the government is trying to encourage more people to take up cycling - as it's easier in terms of traffic, and results in a healthier population, among other things.
    so they're not likely to introduce such rules, which would drive down cyclist numbers, and have explicitly said so iirc.

    i think the main issue with the idea of mandatory insurance is that it's a solution in search of a problem; how big an issue is it that cyclists currently *aren't* insured?

    Yes some members of the government want to see an increase in cyclists but not all. you are right to say that implementing a license or insurance is counter productive in increasing the numbers but logically it makes sense as a measure to increase the level of safety on our roads.

    The issue may not be big in comparison to other modes of transport but it is an issue. Surely insurance would be relevant in such incidents as the recent Phoenix Park collision? http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/cyclist-injured-after-collision-with-a-pedestrian-in-the-phoenix-park-has-died-34687597.html


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 47,982 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i think we should institute a system for cyclists where each one is assigned a mandatory identification code, consisting of a sequence of letters (though numbers would be allowed too, if that floats your boat) and a designation based on the typical storage location of said cyclist, to make it easier to identify them should they end up transgressing a law.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 47,982 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Roadhawk wrote: »
    Yes some members of the government want to see an increase in cyclists but not all. you are right to say that implementing a license or insurance is counter productive in increasing the numbers but logically it makes sense as a measure to increase the level of safety on our roads.
    y'see, this is what makes cyclists grind their teeth; we're so often faced with derisory or downright idiotic facilities for cycling, which increase the danger of cycling, and are then told that the primary means by which to increase safety is a tax or insurance on the cyclist.
    from the window i'm sitting at, i can see a cycle lane which has a traffic light sitting smack bang in the centre of it; and it's not an afterthought. it was built that way. if i was to use that cycle lane, i'd have to swerve onto a footpath to avoid the traffic light - which is a violation which earns an FPN!


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,472 ✭✭✭brooke 2


    Roadhawk wrote: »
    there is another thread relating to this topic in the Cycle forum. Just thought i would add my tuppence worth here too.

    However controversial MOL sounds, in my opinion, he is right. Cyclists are a menace in Dublin City. Between Aug 2015 and Jan 2016 nearly 600 fines were issued from the Gardai to cyclists breaking the law. The Gardai are short on resources so imagine how many are getting away without fines.

    It was hilarious listening to Eamon Ryan talking to Pat Kenny today, trying to tell him that cyclists don't go too fast in Dublin! Pat was not buying it.
    I happened to see Mr. Ryan on the news a few days ago - he was cycling along the Merrion Square side of Leinster House when he spotted the TV camera across the road, by the gates. He
    shot across in front of a girl who was cycling in the opposite direction, and in the path of an approaching pedestrian who had to sidestep Ryan as he braked hard. Ryan sheepishly nodded to the pedestrian who did not seem at all amused. The thought struck me if this is the inconsiderate way he normally carries on when he cycles, I am not surprised that he thinks that most cyclists are well behaved! :(


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,472 ✭✭✭brooke 2


    Grandeeod wrote: »
    I'll float this one.

    Every cyclist using a bike on a public highway should have passed a mandatory rules of the road test and have a registration number. Furthermore they should have insurance.

    And a bell!! ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,460 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    brooke 2 wrote: »
    And a bell!! ;)

    Bells are of little use these days between white earbuds and smartphone distraction syndrome.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,460 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    Roadhawk wrote: »
    Its very hard to prove who is at fault in situations like this. I mean if a pedestrian gets knocked down by a speeding car the driver is at fault unless the pedestrian dives infront of the car. Very sticky situation.

    True, the only thing for certain is that pedestrians should not be walking on well marked cycle paths. I still don't see what good the cyclist having insurance would have made though?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,012 ✭✭✭2RockMountain


    Grandeeod wrote: »
    I'll float this one.

    Every cyclist using a bike on a public highway should have passed a mandatory rules of the road test and have a registration number. Furthermore they should have insurance.

    I'll sink this one.

    How's that test / registration / insurance working out in terms of stopping drivers from driving dangerously?


  • Registered Users Posts: 935 ✭✭✭Roadhawk


    MJohnston wrote: »
    True, the only thing for certain is that pedestrians should not be walking on well marked cycle paths. I still don't see what good the cyclist having insurance would have made though?

    Maybe your right with the insurance. It would only make a difference at a financial level after an accident has happened.

    Are there any laws around pedestrians being allowed to walk in cycle tracks?


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,460 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    Roadhawk wrote: »
    Are there any laws around pedestrians being allowed to walk in cycle tracks?

    Would it make any difference? Here's what I see as a frequent cyclist and driver: pedestrians are by far the most likely out of three to cause danger to themselves, other pedestrians, or to other cyclists or drivers.

    I cycle on OCS daily, and while buses and taxis can be careless or just generally block the flow of lots of other modes, pedestrians are the ones who always make me nervous. Not because I think I'll hit a pedestrian, but because they frequently walk across the street without looking, or even after looking and just ignoring whatever is coming. And while 99% of the time I am able to stop in time or swerve to avoid them, I'm worried about that 1% of the time where it's too wet and I'll slide under the wheels of a bus, or more likely just fall off the bike and wreck myself because of them.

    As a cyclist, you're constantly aware (or should be) that you're easily the most vulnerable thing on the move (pedestrians might be softer and squishier but they're moving slowly and separated from the vehicles, vehicles have little to worry about but bigger vehicles), and it doesn't help to be constantly told that *you* are the menace.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,887 ✭✭✭traprunner


    brooke 2 wrote: »
    And a bell!! ;)

    A loud shout is far more effective. So it should be law that all cyclists can shout. It would also limit the number of cyclists by ruling out a minority i.e. non verbal people.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 935 ✭✭✭Roadhawk


    traprunner wrote: »
    A loud shout is far more effective. So it should be law that all cyclists can shout. It would also limit the number of cyclists by ruling out a minority i.e. non verbal people.

    Well you know what they say, empty barrels make the loudest noise :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    Grandeeod wrote: »
    I'll float this one.

    Every cyclist using a bike on a public highway should have passed a mandatory rules of the road test and have a registration number. Furthermore they should have insurance.

    I'll tell my seven year old nephew :rolleyes:

    The cost of administering, never mind policing, such a scheme would far far exceed any revenue raised.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    Grandeeod wrote: »
    Every cyclist using a bike on a public highway should have passed a mandatory rules of the road test and have a registration number.

    Define A Public Highway.


    How would you implement a rules of the road test on cyclists who can't read? i.e. young children.
    Who would pay for the test?
    What penalty would apply to children under the age of criminal responsibility cycling safely on a cycle track without doing a test?
    What likely improvement in road safety outcome would implementing a test give?
    What likely reduction in cycling numbers would such a proposal have?
    Have you quantified the increased healthcare costs a state imposed barrier to cycling would create?
    How would a cyclist from abroad complete a test? Would there be a test centre on the bridge over the Foyle between Strabane and Lifford?
    What about on Inis Oirr, where cyclists hire bikes to explore the island. There's no cops there.

    Most of the same questions can be asked about registration numbers.

    Would you need to wear a helmet applying for the test? Or just a fluorescent top?
    What about unicyclists?
    Have you a strong opinion about the use of Flickers? 3 wheeled scooters, Heeleys?


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 47,982 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    maybe we could limit bikes to 25kph, unless a competency test has been passed?


  • Registered Users Posts: 935 ✭✭✭Roadhawk


    Jawgap wrote: »
    I'll tell my seven year old nephew :rolleyes:

    The cost of administering, never mind policing, such a scheme would far far exceed any revenue raised.

    Maybe the administration from Irish Water could manage it :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    Roadhawk wrote: »
    Maybe the administration from Irish Water could manage it :D

    Now yer talkin!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    Roadhawk wrote: »
    Maybe the administration from Irish Water could manage it :D

    Doubt it - they're geared up and directed towards a different problem.

    I've never understood motorists who display animosity / resentment / contempt for cyclists - if anything it makes more sense to make sure the city is as cycle friendly as possible.

    The more friendlier it is, the more people will leave the car and take a bike - the more road space will be freed up.
    This next image was created by the Cycling Promotion Fund earlier this year. It shows how much road space a group of people take up using cars, a bus, bikes, or standing in a group:

    cycling%20promotion%20fund.jpg


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,761 ✭✭✭cdebru


    Grandeeod wrote: »
    I'll float this one.

    Every cyclist using a bike on a public highway should have passed a mandatory rules of the road test and have a registration number. Furthermore they should have insurance.


    And pedestrians ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 935 ✭✭✭Roadhawk


    Jawgap wrote: »
    cycling%20promotion%20fund.jpg

    And no cycle lanes in these photos, Oh dear ;)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 935 ✭✭✭Roadhawk


    cdebru wrote: »
    And pedestrians ?

    Debatable...although a road user, no vehicle is used by a pedestrian. More grounds to focus on the cyclist.


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