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Healthy baby aborted at 15 weeks

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    #1532
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Crock Rock wrote: »
    If women want abortion on demand do you think it'd be acceptable to give men the equivalent of "opting out of fatherhood" even if the girl wants to keep the child?

    Men opt out of fatherhood all the time, the yanks even have a term for it 'deadbeat dad'.
    Are you suggesting a man should be allowed force a woman to have an abortion?


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    #1533
    Jim_Hodge
    Registered Users Posts: 10,432 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    Crock Rock wrote: »
    So casual sex and falls pregnant... Two friends or bf and gf... Should she be allowed to abort?

    How about a case of foetal abnormality inconsistent with life outside the womb? Can you accept abortion in this instance?


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    #1534
    Crock Rock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 616 ✭✭✭Crock Rock


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »

    To answer your question, you are aware women now have the choice to seek an abortion here since the referendum passed

    That's erroneous.

    Abolition of the 8th amendment did NOT legalise abortion.

    It allowed legislators to legalise it. There's nothing to stop future governments from restricting abortion on demand and only allowing it in the rarest of rarest of cases. Which would still be in line with the referendum results.

    Personally, I'd love to see this happen. All the lives that would be saved.


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    #1535
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    Crock Rock wrote: »
    That's erroneous.

    Abolition of the 8th amendment did NOT legalise abortion.

    It allowed legislators to legalise it. There's nothing to stop future governments from restricting abortion on demand and only allowing it in the rarest of rarest of cases. Which would still be in line with the referendum results.

    Personally, I'd love to see this happen. All the lives that would be saved.

    You willing to take in and raise all those saved lives? You willing to pay an increased tax bill for the care of thousands of unwanted children annually?


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    #1536
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Crock Rock wrote: »
    That's erroneous.

    Abolition of the 8th amendment did NOT legalise abortion.

    It allowed legislators to legalise it. There's nothing to stop future governments from restricting abortion on demand and only allowing it in the rarest of rarest of cases. Which would still be in line with the referendum results.

    Personally, I'd love to see this happen. All the lives that would be saved.

    No future government will ever do what you hope, that ship has sailed. Time to move and stop hoping to regain control of the bodies of others. Live your own live stop trying to control others, a sad and pathetic mindset tbh.


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    #1537
    Crock Rock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 616 ✭✭✭Crock Rock


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    Men opt out of fatherhood all the time, the yanks even have a term for it 'deadbeat dad'.
    Are you suggesting a man should be allowed force a woman to have an abortion?

    Who said anything of the kind?

    Besides, whether men do or not, it's still illegal and they can be chased for maintenance.

    Why is a woman who doesn't want to be a mother "pro choice" but a man who doesn't want to be a father "deadbeat"?


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    #1538
    Crock Rock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 616 ✭✭✭Crock Rock


    Jim_Hodge wrote: »
    How about a case of foetal abnormality inconsistent with life outside the womb? Can you accept abortion in this instance?

    All life is precious, no matter how long or short.


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    #1539
    uptherebels
    Registered Users Posts: 1,586 ✭✭✭uptherebels


    Crock Rock wrote: »
    My post WAS in jest. That's already been made abundantly clear.

    Besides, there's a big difference between a person who makes a conscious decision to steal or vandalise and an innocent child who did nothing but be conceived.

    If you don't want to be a mother, give your child up for adoption or fostering, there's plenty of women who'd crawl to Lourdes on broken glass to have that opportunity which so many people discard like an inconvenience.

    If you don't want to fall pregnant in the first place then even a 13-year-old would know how to prevent that from happening.

    You need to read up on the various forms of short and long term damage done to the human body from carrying a pregnancy to term and giving birth. It's not something someone should be forced to go through.


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    #1540
    Salary Negotiator
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,148 ✭✭✭Salary Negotiator


    Crock Rock wrote: »
    All life is precious, no matter how long or short.

    Except a home intruder.


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    #1541
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    Crock Rock wrote: »
    All life is precious, no matter how long or short.

    So you would force a pregnant woman to carry a doomed pregnancy and make an infant live a pain-filled few days hooked up to machines while its parents are forced to watch it die? What kind of fcking sadist are you?


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    #1542
    Crock Rock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 616 ✭✭✭Crock Rock


    kylith wrote: »
    So you would force a pregnant woman to carry a doomed pregnancy and make an infant live a pain-filled few days hooked up to machines while its parents are forced to watch it die? What kind of fcking sadist are you?

    An abortion would be more painful for the child.

    Besides, sometimes the child may survive. You never know.


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    #1543
    Loafing Oaf
    Registered Users Posts: 16,006 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    Crock Rock wrote: »
    That's erroneous.

    Abolition of the 8th amendment did NOT legalise abortion.

    It allowed legislators to legalise it. There's nothing to stop future governments from restricting abortion on demand and only allowing it in the rarest of rarest of cases.

    There's also nothing to stop a future government re-outlawing contraception or divorce. And no reason to think any of these actions is remotely likely


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    #1544
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    Crock Rock wrote: »
    An abortion would be more painful for the child.

    Besides, sometimes the child may survive. You never know.

    99.9% of abortions are performed before the foetus is capable of feeling pain. The .1% are tragic cases.

    Children without brains tend not to survive.


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    #1545
    pjohnson
    Registered Users Posts: 23,151 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    kylith wrote: »
    Children without brains tend not to survive.

    Well with some of the nonsense the "pro-life" spout I'm not so sure tbh.

    Or maybe they only loose it at puberty after the childhood phase.


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    #1546
    Jim_Hodge
    Registered Users Posts: 10,432 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    Crock Rock wrote: »
    An abortion would be more painful for the child.

    Besides, sometimes the child may survive. You never know.

    You certainly never seem to know. At least I now know where you stand.

    A bit of compassion wouldn't go astray.


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    #1547
    Crock Rock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 616 ✭✭✭Crock Rock


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    The pregnancy whilst it exists is part of her body, your attitude is one of extreme ignorance tbh.

    It's IN her body, not part of her body.

    Is the dinner you ate today in your body or part of your body?


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    #1548
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Crock Rock wrote: »
    Who said anything of the kind?

    Besides, whether men do or not, it's still illegal and they can be chased for maintenance.

    Why is a woman who doesn't want to be a mother "pro choice" but a man who doesn't want to be a father "deadbeat"?
    It simply boils down to one over riding fact, no matter how much whataboutery you engage in. It's her body and her choice. It really is that simple any argument to the contrary is simply a desire to control another fully developed human being.


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    #1549
    pjohnson
    Registered Users Posts: 23,151 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    Crock Rock wrote: »
    It's IN her body, not part of her body.

    Is the dinner you ate today in your body or part of your body?


    Christ. Do you think your dinner has an umbilical cord?


    The lack of sex education in Ireland is embarassingly clear at times :pac:


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    #1550
    Crock Rock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 616 ✭✭✭Crock Rock


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    It simply boils down to one over riding fact, no matter how much whataboutery you engage in. It's her body and her choice. It really is that simple any argument to the contrary is simply a desire to control another fully developed human being.

    And the human being she's trying to kill inside of her?


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    #1551
    amdublin
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 20,649 CMod ✭✭✭✭amdublin


    I really wish people (yep Crock Rock, I'm talking about you) would just go away and mind their own business.

    I'm not interested in your sex life, your personal life, and what you do with your pregnancy or not. Stay out of mine, and other women's, lives and choices please.

    Mind Your Own Business duuuuuude


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    #1552
    Quantum Erasure
    Registered Users Posts: 8,162 ✭✭✭Quantum Erasure


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    It simply boils down to one over riding fact, no matter how much whataboutery you engage in. It's her body and her choice. It really is that simple any argument to the contrary is simply a desire to control another fully developed human being.

    it's not *just* her body though, is it? I mean that's the WHOLE point of the debate, isn't it?


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    #1553
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    Crock Rock wrote: »
    And the human being she's trying to kill inside of her?

    Do you think people who are forced to be mothers make particularly good parents?
    Do you not see the irony in the fact that you’d trust someone who does not want to have a child (to the point that they’d seek an abortion) with the responsibility of caring for a precious newborn baby, but you wouldn’t trust them to make a choice about their own body, their own life and their own future?
    The mental gymnastics are at an Olympic standard here.


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    #1554
    Crock Rock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 616 ✭✭✭Crock Rock


    amdublin wrote: »
    I really wish people (yep Crock Rock, I'm talking about you) would just go away and mind their own business.

    I'm not interested in your sex life, your personal life, and what you do with your pregnancy or not. Stay out of mine, and other women's, lives and choices please.

    Mind Your Own Business duuuuuude

    Mind my own business because children who might have DS or a cleft palate are killed because they're not perfect for the mother?

    Imagine they had such a laissez-faire attitude when people were killed for less in Nazi Germany.


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    #1555
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    Quantum Erasure wrote: »
    it's not *just* her body though, is it? I mean that's the WHOLE point of the debate, isn't it?

    While it depends on her body to be nourished, survive and thrive to the point where it can live independently of her, it absolutely should be up to her what happens to it.

    The downplaying of the sacrifice of pregnancy here is astounding. It’s a HUGE ask, to expect someone who neither wants to be pregnant nor to have a child to go through it just to placate someone else’s moral superiority. Christ, it’s a huge sacrifice even when the pregnancy is wanted.
    It’s in no ones best interests to force situations like that.


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    #1556
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    Crock Rock wrote: »
    Mind my own business because children who might have DS or a cleft palate are killed because they're not perfect for the mother?

    Imagine they had such a laissez-faire attitude when people were killed for less in Nazi Germany.

    Neither of which can be diagnosed before 12 weeks so that’s absolute hyperbole on your part, more fake news.


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    #1557
    pjohnson
    Registered Users Posts: 23,151 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    Crock Rock wrote: »
    Mind my own business because children who might have DS or a cleft palate are killed because they're not perfect for the mother?

    Imagine they had such a laissez-faire attitude when people were killed for less in Nazi Germany.
    Can you confirm if you think dinners have umbilical cords?


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    #1558
    Crock Rock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 616 ✭✭✭Crock Rock


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    While it depends on her body to be nourished, survive and thrive to the point where it can live independently of her, it absolutely should be up to her what happens to it.

    The downplaying of the sacrifice of pregnancy here is astounding. It’s a HUGE ask, to expect someone who neither wants to be pregnant nor to have a child to go through it just to placate someone else’s moral superiority. Christ, it’s a huge sacrifice even when the pregnancy is wanted.
    It’s in no ones best interests to force situations like that.


    Can we lower the proverbial shields for a sec Susie and may I ask you something?

    What, in your opinion, should be the term limit for abortion on demand?


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    #1559
    amdublin
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 20,649 CMod ✭✭✭✭amdublin


    Crock Rock wrote: »
    Mind my own business because children who might have DS or a cleft palate are killed because they're not perfect for the mother?

    Imagine they had such a laissez-faire attitude when people were killed for less in Nazi Germany.

    You have a very low opinion of women and couples who obtain abortions.

    Just go away wouldya


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    #1560
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Crock Rock wrote: »
    It's IN her body, not part of her body.

    Is the dinner you ate today in your body or part of your body?

    It depends solely on her body to survive up to the point of viability.

    The rest of your post is not worthy of a reply.


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    #1561
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Crock Rock wrote: »
    Mind my own business because children who might have DS or a cleft palate are killed because they're not perfect for the mother?

    Imagine they had such a laissez-faire attitude when people were killed for less in Nazi Germany.

    Yep mind your own business it's not your body and noone will consult with the likes of you before they make what is for most is a very hard decision .


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