Disc vs Rim brake - a personal question

CramCycle · 06-03-2019 11:12pm #1

So after two crashes in quick suggestion, the bike is holding up, and I'll be racing on it for now but there are now a dent or two on it and the rear triangle appears tight. I am not worried about it but I think its time to bite the bullet and accept I may have to buy another bike sooner rather than later.
So I nearly bought one the other night, a Vitus ZX1, looked lovely but thankfully it sold before I got it as the more I read, the more I wavered on the fence. It was good bang for buck but I have never spent big money on a bike before, so taking more time seems wise.
I am at the minute, down to four bikes. One is from my local bike shop, a bit pricier than the other two, and very "aero" looking. I like it but alot of the bits are proprietary and part of me would be worried about getting too tied down with repairs if needed. I am having a test ride when the weather is better. This is my fourth choice. Cannondale SystemSix. Its free speed which is awesome.
The top two choices are essentially the same bike bar one major difference (and a few minor differences), one is rim brake, one is disc. Both are extremely light on paper. The disc version is about 0.5kg heavier but still lighter than anything I have ever had before. Both are highly customisable, to the point that, unlike the Cannondale, i would only have to change the bars after buying. These are the X Lite six from Rose. Downsides are that it is only in Black, positives are that it is as light as f*ck.
The other option is the Xeon CW Disc from Rose, the positives are that it is not Black, I can customise to the point that I would have to make no changes. The negatives are that it is a bit aero looking and a kilo heavier.

I suppose my major questions are, is it wiser to buy discs for future proofing, or the fact that I am saving the price of a set of wheels mean I am future proofing enough?

Deano12345 · 06-03-2019 11:56pm

"CramCycle wrote: »

I suppose my major questions are, is it wiser to buy discs for future proofing, or the fact that I am saving the price of a set of wheels mean I am future proofing enough?

If it was me, I’d invest in the disk frame now, I think it’s a new technology and the parts will get cheaper and lighter over time.

I have a rim and a disk brake bike and I feel like the performance is pretty similar, although they do ‘feel’ different to me when riding on them, I think it’s down to the weight of the disk. Once conditions aren’t ideal, the disk brake bike does brake much better.

The only reason I would get the rim bike would be if you already had spares etc that were rim specific, or if you do a lot of climbing where you would notice the extra weight.

I think the Systemsix is a great looking bike too haha!

CramCycle · 07-03-2019 12:23am

My other question would be what is the expected stable lifetime of a decent bike. My current one is just past four years but it has had four years of being battered and abused and only started to show signs of injury in the last few months, and regrettably all of those signs seemed avoidable if I had been a better owner.

The new bike will be locked up in work and only let out for racing and special occasions.

I do have loads of spares for the rim brake bike, in fact, I have my entire old bike for a start. It is alot cheaper so I could afford alot of spares as well.

There is also the other point, despite only coming in black, the Rose X Lite looks more like what I call a bike, the others look like machines, and I think that will weigh heavily on me in the long run as this will have to last awhile

Wishbone Ash · 07-03-2019 1:08am

CramCycle wrote: »

... is it wiser to buy discs for future proofing...

I just don't get this 'future proofing' thing with cycling. You're not buying a house. Rim brakes are not going to be banned within a year or so. You'll probably want a new bike in a couple of years anyway. Get discs if you want them - not because you feel you have to have them.

Deano12345 wrote: »

If it was me, I’d invest in the disk frame...

Where's the investment? The frame is hardly going to increase in value as it gets older.

CramCycle · 07-03-2019 8:07am

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

I just don't get this 'future proofing' thing with cycling. You're not buying a house. Rim brakes are not going to be banned within a year or so. You'll probably want a new bike in a couple of years anyway. Get discs if you want them - not because you feel you have to have them.

A fair point, future proof is incorrect. It's going to be the most expensive thing I own so at some point I may have to replace parts etc. with new but also high end parts. The concern may have been that the more high end group sets would move away from rim brakes in a few years but there is nothing at say they won't stay as is.

Where's the investment? The frame is hardly going to increase in value as it gets older.

Investment is the wrong word, would not decrease at a slower rate?

Yourmama · 07-03-2019 8:22am

Test both and see which suits you better. I don't know these particular bikes myself so can't comment on specifics but make sure the position and comfort is what makes the bike suitable for you. As for disc brakes, I'm not a big fan of them. I owned a bike with discs for short period and I have to say I prefer rim brakes which are also lighter. Win-win. I'm back to ultegra rim brakes and I don't look back.

magicbastarder · 07-03-2019 8:50am

CramCycle wrote: »

My current one is just past four years but it has had four years of being battered and abused and only started to show signs of injury in the last few months

i guess you'd measure a bike's age in distance rather than years though?
and conditions used in too...

Raam · 07-03-2019 8:59am

Get the one which makes you happiest.

Raam · 07-03-2019 9:01am

We are also gonna need links so that we can judge you better harsher.

Chips Lovell · 07-03-2019 10:35am

For me, the main questions would be a.) are you going to race the frame and b.) do you, at any point, anticipate having to get a wheel change during a race.

If the answer to those questions is "yes", then I'd stick with rim brakes. If you were watching the races in Belgium at the weekend, you'll notice that the vast majority of riders were still on rim brakes. The Specialized teams were all on discs (presumably at Specialized's insistence) and any of those guys who flatted were getting a new bike off the car, not a new wheel. There were stories last year of pro-mechanics breaking out cordless drills to speed up wheel changes on thru-axle hubs. You're unlikely to get any of this on the side of a road at any race here.

Outside of that, my take is that if you're adding additional complexity to your set-up, you need to see material benefit. At the moment, I just see more expensive parts, that are more fiddly to maintain.

outfox · 07-03-2019 12:44pm

I wouldn't get too bogged down with the future proof thing. You'll race the new bike for a few years. Then your existing bike will be a wreck, and the new bike will become your daily steed, and you'll probably order a new new bike for racing. And so it goes on.

CramCycle · 07-03-2019 1:06pm

Baron de Charlus wrote: »

For me, the main questions would be a.) are you going to race the frame and

Only racing

b.) do you, at any point, anticipate having to get a wheel change during a race.

Not likely but not impossible, most likely get a flat and pull out, change the tube and roll in later.

If the answer to those questions is "yes", then I'd stick with rim brakes. If you were watching the races in Belgium at the weekend, you'll notice that the vast majority of riders were still on rim brakes. The Specialized teams were all on discs (presumably at Specialized's insistence) and any of those guys who flatted were getting a new bike off the car, not a new wheel. There were stories last year of pro-mechanics breaking out cordless drills to speed up wheel changes on thru-axle hubs. You're unlikely to get any of this on the side of a road at any race here.

All of the bikes, rim or discs are thru axle. Whihc begs the other question, is it hard or possible to convert QR wheels to be held by a thru axle fork/frame?

Looking more like the rim brakes now, the deciding factor now will be if my nice wheels are convertible to thru axle. I cannot find a solution online but my gut is telling me that if I can get a collar for the QR that widens it too the width of the thru axle, it should do the job. Does anyone know of anything like that, basically a piece with a 9mm diameter hole, and a 12mm or 17mm outer diameter and a lip, place it through both parts of the dropout and it will make the QR work as a thru axle, a lip on it as well to stop it slipping.

CramCycle · 07-03-2019 4:37pm

This is the bike that is now edging out the others. I thought it was thru axle but the pics on the left of the bike look like they might have QR skewers. Sent ROSE a mail to confirm but if someone else knows, that would be great.

https://www.rosebikes.ie/rose-x-lite-six-ultegra-2675765?product_shape=UD-Carbon%2FPiano-Black&article_size=57cm#

Maybe some brighter handlebar tape to take the dull black edge off it.

CramCycle · 07-03-2019 4:37pm

Actually, they look more like QR when you look at the pics on the left rear side.

Chumpski · 07-03-2019 4:51pm

If you are racing, I'd go disc only if you are ok with a puncture ending your race. As getting a disc wheel from neutral service will be tricky.

If you choose disc, consider tubeless tyres.

CramCycle · 07-03-2019 5:00pm

I have already been talked out of it by clubmates and posters here, rim brakes for the win. I also hated the sound of them last Saturday, sounded like lost souls who got stuck in purgatory calling for help as they forgot who they were, and what they were trying to escape from, it was an unpleasant noise. Luckily I had the sound of my super loud freewheeling to cheer me up

triggermortis · 07-03-2019 5:35pm

CramCycle wrote: »

Actually, they look more like QR when you look at the pics on the left rear side.

https://www.rosebikes.ie/rose-rc-fifty-carbon-road-wheels-2677928?product_shape=carbon&article_size=28%22%2F700C

They are QR, M9 and M10 sizes.

Nice looking wheels - not that the bike isn't good looking either

lennymc · 07-03-2019 8:05pm

If you a closer look at the system six let me know. I'll probably be at lucan gp.

CramCycle · 07-03-2019 8:45pm

lennymc wrote: »

If you a closer look at the system six let me know. I'll probably be at lucan gp.

Cheers, alas it looks like I won't make the Lucan GP bar some underhanded trickery and flat out lies to the family. Have seen the one in the LBS and he said I can take it home for a day when the weather improves but I appreciate the offer. It looks better in real life than in photos IMO. I think the Rose is where I am going though.

Plastik · 07-03-2019 10:03pm

Some nice Italian options for the budget on Salden

https://www.saldenbikes.com/bianchi-aria-aero-ultegra-disc-9.html
https://www.saldenbikes.com/bianchi-oltre-xr3-105-disc-9.html
https://www.saldenbikes.com/colnago-c60-chorus-11sp-187778.html
https://www.saldenbikes.com/wilier-110air-alabarda-campagnolo-193720.html

CramCycle · 10-03-2019 11:33pm

Plastik wrote: »

Some nice Italian options for the budget on Salden

https://www.saldenbikes.com/bianchi-aria-aero-ultegra-disc-9.html
https://www.saldenbikes.com/bianchi-oltre-xr3-105-disc-9.html
https://www.saldenbikes.com/colnago-c60-chorus-11sp-187778.html
https://www.saldenbikes.com/wilier-110air-alabarda-campagnolo-193720.html

Two I can rule out, gone off the discs.

Think I am going to go for the Rose. Despite the annoyance about the weight being 300g heavier online than advertised, it makes it race legal. I have a set of wheels to return to Wiggle that takes the sting out of it.

C3PO · 11-03-2019 6:37pm

Just ordered a new disc only frame for the winter/training bike. Love the Ultegra hydraulic disks on my Kinesis GFTi - can't see myself buying another rim braked bike!

sann · 11-03-2019 8:38pm

CramCycle wrote: »

Two I can rule out, gone off the discs.

That I am going to go for the Rose. Despite the annoyance about the weight being 300g heavier online than advertised, it makes it race legal. I have a set of wheels to return to Wiggle that takes the sting out of it.

I was very close to buying the rose this week but it is that extra weight that i know its going to be that turned me off.
Thank and the white logo. Small complaint in fairness. Decided the Canyon for 2200 at 6.9kg was a better option. I will prob order a set of giant slrs which are about 1400g. That will end up bringing the price up around the same money as the rose.
It was a close call between them in fairness but I decided to go with the canyon.
I'm sure that Rose is going to be a fabulous bike as well.

CramCycle · 11-03-2019 10:15pm

I went for the Rose. Will colour in the white logo in my club colours, swap the bars for narrower ones (I prefer 38 or 36 cm) and put some handlebar tape with a bit more pop, too much black otherwise.

sann · 11-03-2019 10:20pm

CramCycle wrote: »

I went for the Rose. Will colour in the white logo in my club colours, swap the bars for narrower ones (I prefer 38 or 36 cm) and put some handlebar tape with a bit more pop, too much black otherwise.

Best of luck with it.
I'm sure it will look even better in the flesh.
How long will you have to wait for it?
I'm refreshing my tracking page all day to see if there is any update.

CramCycle · 11-03-2019 10:25pm

sann wrote: »

Best of luck with it.
I'm sure it will look even better in the flesh.
How long will you have to wait for it?
I'm refreshing my tracking page all day to see if there is any update.

Claiming four weeks

CramCycle · 09-04-2019 12:30pm

CramCycle wrote: »

Claiming four weeks

So assembly date is booked for the 11th, so I presume Monday is the day for arrival.

CramCycle · 09-04-2019 12:31pm

lennymc wrote: »

If you a closer look at the system six let me know. I'll probably be at lucan gp.

Sorry I didn't look, I had already bought mine so didn't want to annoy myself. Seen the Yellow one underneath a Lucan rider.

CramCycle · 24-04-2019 5:29pm

Claimed weight 6.4kg
Actual weight: 6.6kg (on the nose with a calibrated lab balance)

Includes bottle cages and bolts which the specs don't, so in reality, only 150g off the claimed weight. First outing tomorrow. Ordered new narrower bars for her, will order new handlebar tape come payday. The logos look like they just might be adhesive stickers so will have a think about how to take them off after I giver her a few solid test rides.

Cee-Jay-Cee · 24-04-2019 5:44pm

CramCycle wrote: »

Claimed weight 6.4kg
Actual weight: 6.6kg (on the nose with a calibrated lab balance)

Includes bottle cages and bolts which the specs don't, so in reality, only 150g off the claimed weight. First outing tomorrow. Ordered new narrower bars for her, will order new handlebar tape come payday. The logos look like they just might be adhesive stickers so will have a think about how to take them off after I giver her a few solid test rides.

It does say “approx weight” so they’re not too far off the mark unlike some manufacturers who can be a kilo over the stated weight. Anyway you should be able to shave 4g off that weight by changing the cage bolts to titanium bolts.

CramCycle · 24-04-2019 5:51pm

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

It does say “approx weight” so they’re not too far off the mark unlike some manufacturers who can be a kilo over the stated weight. Anyway you should be able to shave 4g off that weight by changing the cage bolts to titanium bolts.

They give + or - 5%, the skeptic in me says, accept that it will be +5% and anything less is a bonus. That would make an expected weight of 6.72kg

Just put on pedals to bring it above UCI weight limit

Disc vs Rim brake - a personal question

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