Calf price chitchat

Base price · 14-01-2019 11:36pm

Disruption to calf exports due to delays with the delivery of the WB Yeats which will not be operational until March 20th.
http://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/w-b-yeats-to-boost-dairy-calf-exports-to-80000-month/

charolais0153 · 16-01-2019 3:11pm

Check this out on Agriland - How much should beef farmers pay for bull calves from the dairy herd? https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/how-much-should-beef-farmers-pay-for-bull-calves-from-the-dairy-herd/

A good article imo

mahoney_j · 16-01-2019 4:10pm

charolais0153 wrote: »

Check this out on Agriland - How much should beef farmers pay for bull calves from the dairy herd? https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/how-much-should-beef-farmers-pay-for-bull-calves-from-the-dairy-herd/

A good article imo

A load of ****e .....free fr bull and pay the new owner 140 euro ,for a jex bull maby !!!!

Mooooo · 16-01-2019 4:22pm

The same people come to take fr calves here regularly, they seem to be able to make it work.
I made the point earlier that people particularly in the beef game if not at it full time have to see if it will survive on its own two feet, if not you are supplementing it with the fulltime job. If one wants to continue doing that that's fine but if Larry is continuing to get cattle from lads that aren't making any profit why would he make any change

Anto_Meath · 16-01-2019 4:23pm

Well Mahoney_J it does seem strange but in reality it probably isn't that far off the mark, especially for the Jex bull caves they are worthless to rear as the eat to much and kill out at to small of weights. I know of a lad sold 20 Jex calves in the mart at €5 each last year, he then owed the mart €100 in sale fees, but he said if he was to send them to the kennels then it would have cost him €200 so he was better off. Another lad beside me is putting sexed semen on his good Je cows and then on the remainder he is putting an easy calving Ch bull, last year the calves he sold averaged €285 into his pocket. The CHx calves looked nice in the mart but I haven't seen any of them since to see how they turned out.

Mooooo · 16-01-2019 4:26pm

Whats considered easy calving needs to be aligned. A suckler man may consider easy calving a small pull whereas a dairy man would consider it calving on her own. Particularly with longer gestation breeds such as limo and ch.

tanko · 16-01-2019 4:28pm

mahoney_j wrote: »

A load of ****e .....free fr bull and pay the new owner 140 euro ,for a jex bull maby !!!!

It will be interesting to see what FR and JEX bull calves are worth this spring when the glut hits.

morphy87 · 16-01-2019 5:07pm

Bought Freisian calf’s last year in early March good proper square British ones,3 weeks old paid 170 for them what do reckon they will be worth this year? Going to try and buy off the same farmer again

wrangler · 16-01-2019 5:15pm

mahoney_j wrote: »

A load of ****e .....free fr bull and pay the new owner 140 euro ,for a jex bull maby !!!!

It's not a load of s.....;There's enough on here saying they can't make money on them, No point in paying too much and then blaming the farm organisations for no profit.

wrangler · 16-01-2019 5:17pm

morphy87 wrote: »

Bought Freisian calf’s last year in early March good proper square British ones,3 weeks old paid 170 for them what do reckon they will be worth this year? Going to try and buy off the same farmer again

What do you think your yearlings are worth now

Anto_Meath · 16-01-2019 5:31pm

Well you can pick up September 2018 born FR bull calves which are off milk and ready for grass for between €100 - €130 at the minute so I am guessing the 2- 3 week old calves would be worth a lot less.

whelan2 · 16-01-2019 6:25pm

wrangler wrote: »

It's not a load of s.....;There's enough on here saying they can't make money on them, No point in paying too much and then blaming the farm organisations for no profit.

If they are not making money on them why pay stupid money for them? Lads can't keep their hands in their pockets

mahoney_j · 16-01-2019 6:40pm

whelan2 wrote: »

If they are not making money on them why pay stupid money for them? Lads can't keep their hands in their pockets

Exactly ,

farisfat · 16-01-2019 7:47pm

whelan2 wrote: »

If they are not making money on them why pay stupid money for them? Lads can't keep their hands in their pockets

Farming disease and the single payment.
Theirs no cure for farming disease unless the bank close on ye.

Reggie. · 16-01-2019 7:59pm

whelan2 wrote: »

If they are not making money on them why pay stupid money for them? Lads can't keep their hands in their pockets

Because lads can't help themselves

whelan2 · 16-01-2019 8:00pm

Reggie. wrote: »

Because lads can't help themselves

Going to try to bring as many calves as possible to the mart this spring. Have orders for a good few of them, rest will go to mart

White Clover · 16-01-2019 8:04pm

whelan2 wrote: »

If they are not making money on them why pay stupid money for them? Lads can't keep their hands in their pockets

I have a feeling that's about to change. Beef farmers have taken some roasting over the last 12 months. A lot of lads that I have talked to have said they're not prepared to lose anymore money to it.

wrangler · 16-01-2019 8:10pm

You'd have a better chance of making money now in Paddy Powers than buying calves

Reggie. · 16-01-2019 8:11pm

whelan2 wrote: »

Going to try to bring as many calves as possible to the mart this spring. Have orders for a good few of them, rest will go to mart

You know the story here

visatorro · 16-01-2019 8:19pm

whelan2 wrote: »

Reggie. wrote: »

Because lads can't help themselves

Going to try to bring as many calves as possible to the mart this spring. Have orders for a good few of them, rest will go to mart

Were you selling today?

whelan2 · 16-01-2019 8:22pm

visatorro wrote: »

Were you selling today?

NO sold cattle yesterday, will try to bring the 2 I have next week.

jaymla627 · 16-01-2019 10:23pm

whelan2 wrote: »

If they are not making money on them why pay stupid money for them? Lads can't keep their hands in their pockets

Autumn born calves around here where unsalable bar the shippers taking them and 50 euro was their limit, the lads doing bull calves badly and landing them into the mart in big batches to flog them at any price could be in for a shock, I’d reckon anything x-bred/done poorly will be unsaleable this spring

whelan2 · 16-01-2019 10:29pm

jaymla627 wrote: »

Autumn born calves around here where unsalable bar the shippers taking them and 50 euro was their limit, the lads doing bull calves badly and landing them into the mart in big batches to flog them at any price could be in for a shock, I’d reckon anything x-bred/done poorly will be unsaleable this spring

I brought a good few to the mart, shippers offering me less than half of what I got in the mart from my yard

Bass Reeves · 16-01-2019 11:38pm

mahoney_j wrote: »

A load of ****e .....free fr bull and pay the new owner 140 euro ,for a jex bull maby !!!!

There are a few issues at play. The Agriland issue was not great journalism they had O+ QA steers at 6c+base when they receive only the base (Baseprice -12c for O+ and add QA which is 12c). but it did hit a few nails on the head. U16 months Fr bull beef is high risk with little profit unless you are a top class operator. U20 months Bull is risky unless you can get them to grass for the second spring early summer but is really dependent on Late Autumn price. It fails to mention U24 bull but this again is dependent on grazing until September. Heifer like bulls U20 months are dependent on late Autumn price and this is the second year in a row where this was a disaster. After that you have U30 month steer and said it was profitable. T thenhey did a cost process for and worked back to a calf price from there giving the farmer a 200 euro margin. They have more or ls hinted that winter finishing is a dead duck.

Is there analysis wrong not I do not think so. At present there is very little profit in the beef system. 5-10 years ago I had 3-4 options on how to turn a few bob. Pre and post Christmas U24 and U30 month bulls, early summer steers, Mid summer U30 months bulls actually u30 months bulls any time. And you had Heifers early summer and late autumn I did not do them but lads did. 5+ years ago I could pay 450 euro for a 250+kgs friesian bull and know that I could kill him 15 months later at 3.9-4.1/kg. Ration was 200ish/ton. The same finished bull at present is making 3.5/kg, that is 180 euro. Ration is 80/ton more expensive( I think as I have not bought any I am not finishing cattle out of the shed this year:) inspired or what I am not sure). Other costs have risen plastic, contractor, Vet Medicines, Machinery etc, fertlizer is about the same. I need to buy that weanling for sub 200 to maintain my margin so what a FR calf worth?

Anto_Meath wrote: »

Well you can pick up September 2018 born FR bull calves which are off milk and ready for grass for between €100 - €130 at the minute so I am guessing the 2- 3 week old calves would be worth a lot less.

You would probally buy 300kg friesians for 100 ish + there weigh Not exactly sure as I have not being at the mart since last Autumn.

White Clover wrote: »

I have a feeling that's about to change. Beef farmers have taken some roasting over the last 12 months. A lot of lads that I have talked to have said they're not prepared to lose anymore money to it.

Lads have to learn sometimes. I have came accross 3 suckler men and all would be out of suckler except for being ties in the suckler scheme.

whelan2 wrote: »

I brought a good few to the mart, shippers offering me less than half of what I got in the mart from my yard

Shipper can only pay so much for calves they are like finishers they know there costs, they know what there buyers will pay and after that they want a margin. If the price is not right they walk away. More farmer should thing the same

Albert Johnson · 17-01-2019 12:27am

The article quoted in an earlier post re the economics of various calf types and there values makes for sobering reading. I should admit from the outset that I'm somewhat biased on the subject of sucks, to say I detest them would be putting it mildly. I've reared one batch of AA bull calves and would plant the place before doing it again. I was lucky in that they all lived and came into good enough bullocks but the effort, money and time invested in them was enough to put me off for life.

It's ok saying that the above article is a load of bull but i think that the issue of bull calves especially the more extreme dairy types is a possible welfare issue going forward. At the moment dairy farmers assume most calves have a monetary value and that there are heaps of lads willing to purchase. The ever increasing cost of bringing these calves through to slaughter combined with a dismal year for the beef sector may be the final straw for many calf rearers.

Having observed the store trade for dairy cross stock all back end and doing the sums on what finished cattle are worth at the moment it's hard to draw many positive conclusions. A lot of lads lost there shirt on dairy bred cattle and will be understandably more cautious this time around. A few examples in other posts of what sucks made last year leave me wondering what goes through people's minds when purchasing calves.

The Charolais bull crossed to Jersey cows for example, they may have looked ok as sucks but the real test will be repeat custom this spring? I seen several batch's of Friesian runners sold locally (far from dairy country) at average 1.20 a kilo. These cost 120 at 3 weeks old, rear for 6 months and receive 240 at 200kg. I admit to only doing ordinary maths for the L.C. but even I can work out the profit margin or rather lack of involved there.

Exporting as many of the more dairy types as possible is a solution at the moment if the domestic market collapses. However long term live exports are on shaky ground, the animal welfare brigade are canvassing for a total ban and public opinion is leaning in this direction.

If faced with a saturated domestic market and an unsustainable production cycle it will be very much a crisis for the dairy sector. The green and wholesome image of Irish dairying will not go hand in hand with slaughtering newborn calves and the resulting public backlash. It would be prudent of the industy to prioritize research into a sustainable beef by product rather than expecting the beef industry to clean up it's mess as is happening at present.

atlantic mist · 17-01-2019 12:48am

might need the big holstein to come back into fashion, one calf ever two years would sort things out

alps · 17-01-2019 1:22am

atlantic mist wrote: »

might need the big holstein to come back into fashion, one calf ever two years would sort things out

You could go by the tag digits like they do with cars allowed to enter Paris....

Odd numbers allowed to calve 2019, even tag numbers 2020 and so on...

older by the day · 17-01-2019 1:37am

Albert Johnson wrote: »

The article quoted in an earlier post re the economics of various calf types and there values makes for sobering reading. I should admit from the outset that I'm somewhat biased on the subject of sucks, to say I detest them would be putting it mildly. I've reared one batch of AA bull calves and would plant the place before doing it again. I was lucky in that they all lived and came into good enough bullocks but the effort, money and time invested in them was enough to put me off for life.

It's ok saying that the above article is a load of bull but i think that the issue of bull calves especially the more extreme dairy types is a possible welfare issue going forward. At the moment dairy farmers assume most calves have a monetary value and that there are heaps of lads willing to purchase. The ever increasing cost of bringing these calves through to slaughter combined with a dismal year for the beef sector may be the final straw for many calf rearers.

Having observed the store trade for dairy cross stock all back end and doing the sums on what finished cattle are worth at the moment it's hard to draw many positive conclusions. A lot of lads lost there shirt on dairy bred cattle and will be understandably more cautious this time around. A few examples in other posts of what sucks made last year leave me wondering what goes through people's minds when purchasing calves.

The Charolais bull crossed to Jersey cows for example, they may have looked ok as sucks but the real test will be repeat custom this spring? I seen several batch's of Friesian runners sold locally (far from dairy country) at average 1.20 a kilo. These cost 120 at 3 weeks old, rear for 6 months and receive 240 at 200kg. I admit to only doing ordinary maths for the L.C. but even I can work out the profit margin or rather lack of involved there.

Exporting as many of the more dairy types as possible is a solution at the moment if the domestic market collapses. However long term live exports are on shaky ground, the animal welfare brigade are canvassing for a total ban and public opinion is leaning in this direction.

If faced with a saturated domestic market and an unsustainable production cycle it will be very much a crisis for the dairy sector. The green and wholesome image of Irish dairying will not go hand in hand with slaughtering newborn calves and the resulting public backlash. It would be prudent of the industy to prioritize research into a sustainable beef by product rather than expecting the beef industry to clean up it's mess as is happening at present.

Great piece of writing. Every radio show I turn on lately has been vegans running down farming, I have felt like ringing in but afraid of making a show of myself. It goes against my nature to see a slaughter scheme for calves. But all the smart people that have been preaching about the New Zealand way, should have known what was coming down the line for calfs. It's ironic that the removal of milk quotas is the death nail for beef

atlantic mist · 17-01-2019 11:06am

dont need a slaughter scheme for calves, be the end of our green image

its about time teasasc have a good look at their ideal cow type seen as sustainability is the latest buzz word they have learned, the majority of dairy farmers have stuck with the black and white fr/hol only small % of cow population is the xbred animal

calves should have some value coming from good strong big cows, if no beef industry well have to rear calves ourselves you wouldnt be long getting rid of the small xbred type if made finish the calf

_Brian · 17-01-2019 12:55pm

atlantic mist wrote: »

dont need a slaughter scheme for calves, be the end of our green image

its about time teasasc have a good look at their ideal cow type seen as sustainability is the latest buzz word they have learned, the majority of dairy farmers have stuck with the black and white fr/hol only small % of cow population is the xbred animal

calves should have some value coming from good strong big cows, if no beef industry well have to rear calves ourselves you wouldnt be long getting rid of the small xbred type if made finish the calf

Slaughtering young doesn’t seem to affect lamb production ??
Everything should be investigated as to it’s merrit.

Calf price chitchat

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