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Vehicle damage by Pothole

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  • 13-12-2019 9:27am
    #1
    irish bloke
    Registered Users Posts: 2,057 ✭✭✭


    Hi All,

    As title says I badly damaged my vehicle recently by hitting a very large pothole -
    Cost alone for a new wheel and tire is close to 900 euro. there are also other expenses for vehicle damage assessment and some minor mechanical work - total cost is close to 1500 euro - all this detailed on the quote i received.

    I have borrowed a spare wheel from someone in the meantime so the car is driveable.

    I have contacted the council regarding a claim, but I see they are looking for invoices - Unfortunately I do not have 1500 euro spare to get the damage corrected professionally and am able to manage with the minor damage and the spare wheel.

    The question I have is should I not be compensated alone by producing the quote for damage as opposed to having to produce invoices? This seems very odd. If my house was fire damaged to the tune of 20k, I would not have to produce invoices of new items as I obviously would not be able to buy them without the compensation first.

    Thanks.. IB


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Comments

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    #2
    mickuhaha
    Registered Users Posts: 475 ✭✭mickuhaha


    What wheel and tyre costs 900


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    #3
    Iseedeadpixels
    Registered Users Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭Iseedeadpixels


    mickuhaha wrote: »
    What wheel and tyre costs 900

    A girl I worked with had a mini cooper cost a grand to fix a damaged wheel and tyre.


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    #4
    mickuhaha
    Registered Users Posts: 475 ✭✭mickuhaha


    Iseedeadpixels wrote: »
    A girl I worked with had a mini cooper cost a grand to fix a damaged wheel and tyre.

    The most expensive 19" original mini wheel are € 2300 for a set via mini. I know as my wife has them.


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    #5
    GBX
    Registered Users Posts: 11,900 ✭✭✭✭GBX


    irish bloke wrote: »
    Hi All,

    As title says I badly damaged my vehicle recently by hitting a very large pothole -
    Cost alone for a new wheel and tire is close to 900 euro. there are also other expenses for vehicle damage assessment and some minor mechanical work - total cost is close to 1500 euro - all this detailed on the quote i received.

    I have borrowed a spare wheel from someone in the meantime so the car is driveable.

    I have contacted the council regarding a claim, but I see they are looking for invoices - Unfortunately I do not have 1500 euro spare to get the damage corrected professionally and am able to manage with the minor damage and the spare wheel.

    The question I have is should I not be compensated alone by producing the quote for damage as opposed to having to produce invoices? This seems very odd. If my house was fire damaged to the tune of 20k, I would not have to produce invoices of new items as I obviously would not be able to buy them without the compensation first.

    Thanks.. IB

    A quote is just that - an invoice is based on the work having being carried out. Fair enough you had to borrow a wheel to get your car drivable but if any person/organisation paid out on quotes because somebody said something happened their vehicle they'd soon have no money.


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    #6
    irish bloke
    Registered Users Posts: 2,057 ✭✭✭irish bloke


    mickuhaha wrote: »
    What wheel and tyre costs 900

    I knew writing some smart a... would say that


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    #7
    irish bloke
    Registered Users Posts: 2,057 ✭✭✭irish bloke


    GBX wrote: »
    A quote is just that - an invoice is based on the work having being carried out. Fair enough you had to borrow a wheel to get your car drivable but if any person/organisation paid out on quotes because somebody said something happened their vehicle they'd soon have no money.


    That doesnt make sense at all.
    There is evidence of the incident, photos, police report, quote of damage done to the car from the garage... I didnt just say something happened


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    #8
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,123 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    irish bloke wrote: »
    That doesnt make sense at all.
    There is evidence of the incident, photos, police report, quote of damage done to the car from the garage... I didnt just say something happened

    you made a claim a claim against the council. they will only pay for any expenses you incur, if they even do that. so far you have not incurred any expenses.


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    #9
    GBX
    Registered Users Posts: 11,900 ✭✭✭✭GBX


    Ok. I'll explain it more simpler terms for you:

    A quote is for proposed work. You've given them evidence of the damage etc - But they have no evidence of the repair being completed. So you expect them to pay out on that? An invoice is based on work completed.
    It's not ideal situation for you having to pay out before but that's how it usually goes. Friend of mine had the same with a council claim.


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    #10
    GerardKeating
    Registered Users Posts: 7,526 ✭✭✭GerardKeating


    irish bloke wrote: »
    The question I have is should I not be compensated alone by producing the quote for damage as opposed to having to produce invoices?

    Some people might get a quote for brand new parts, from the most expensive main dealer, and when they get the cash, fix it with part from a breaker yard and pocket the savings.


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    #11
    mickuhaha
    Registered Users Posts: 475 ✭✭mickuhaha


    You could take them to court.


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    #12
    irish bloke
    Registered Users Posts: 2,057 ✭✭✭irish bloke


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    you made a claim a claim against the council. they will only pay for any expenses you incur, if they even do that. so far you have not incurred any expenses.

    I have damage to the tune of 1500 euros to my car. I am not in a position right now to pay that much to get it fixed properly.

    I can get it back on the road for less, but it will only be a repair and not right. The car is worth alot of money and none of this was my fault.

    The council are covered by an insurance company (IPB Insurance) - Ild be shocked if I need to provide invoices when this is not a requirement with any other insurance claim.
    Cant see that standing up in a court of law


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    #13
    irish bloke
    Registered Users Posts: 2,057 ✭✭✭irish bloke


    mickuhaha wrote: »
    You could take them to court.

    maybe i will


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    #14
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,123 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    irish bloke wrote: »
    I have damage to the tune of 1500 euros to my car. I am not in a position right now to pay that much to get it fixed properly.

    I can get it back on the road for less, but it will only be a repair and not right. The car is worth alot of money and none of this was my fault.

    The council are covered by an insurance company (IPB Insurance) - Ild be shocked if I need to provide invoices when this is not a requirement with any other insurance claim.
    Cant see that standing up in a court of law

    they will cover your actual losses. nothing more. Your actual losses are what you pay out to repair your vehicle. They wont pay out based on what somebody thinks it might cost.


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    #15
    irish bloke
    Registered Users Posts: 2,057 ✭✭✭irish bloke


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    they will cover your actual losses. nothing more. Your actual losses are what you pay out to repair your vehicle. They wont pay out based on what somebody thinks it might cost.

    That's disgraceful if its the case - the dwell time between me paying and receiving compensation apparently is huge - that's even if I receive it.
    Fully intend fighting that if it turns out to be the case - legally via ombudsman or solicitor


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    #16
    jmreire
    Registered Users Posts: 8,259 ✭✭✭jmreire


    If you have the misfortune to his a pothole ( and it's happened to most people at one time or an other, given the state of Irish road's) and do €1500 worth of damage, which would include steering / suspension damage I presume, are you happy just replacing the wheel and driving it on? What is listed on the estimate you got? Because there are two thing's that you never mess with on a car, steering and brakes.


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    #17
    irish bloke
    Registered Users Posts: 2,057 ✭✭✭irish bloke


    jmreire wrote: »
    If you have the misfortune to his a pothole ( and it's happened to most people at one time or an other, given the state of Irish road's) and do €1500 worth of damage, which would include steering / suspension damage I presume, are you happy just replacing the wheel and driving it on? What is listed on the estimate you got? Because there are two thing's that you never mess with on a car, steering and brakes.

    Correct, wheel, tire, steering component and tire pressure sensor.

    I am not happy to drive it as it is but i dont really have a choice. Constant tire pressure fault in car also due to the damage


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    #18
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,599 Mod ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    If the damage is so bad you should be able to claim off your insurer to get it repaired and they would claim from the council.

    You shouldn't be worrying about the dwell time between repair and payout. Insurance worries about that for you.


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    #19
    irish bloke
    Registered Users Posts: 2,057 ✭✭✭irish bloke


    CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »
    If the damage is so bad you should be able to claim off your insurer to get it repaired and they would claim from the council.

    You shouldn't be worrying about the dwell time between repair and payout. Insurance worries about that for you.

    The last thing I want to do is claim off my own insurance for fear my premium would go up - complete false economy


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    #20
    bladespin
    Registered Users Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭bladespin


    irish bloke wrote: »
    The last thing I want to do is claim off my own insurance for fear my premium would go up - complete false economy

    But that's what it's for???

    You claim from your insurance and they in turn will claim from the council (if they can), the whole reason to have insurance is so you don't carry the hassle yourself.

    It's a non-fault claim, so loading would be minimal in general, worth discussing with your insurance anyway, get their advise first.


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    #21
    GM228
    Registered Users Posts: 8,925 ✭✭✭GM228


    First thing people need to realise is that legally the Council is not liable for damage caused by a poor state of repair in the roads.

    The principles of misfeasance or nonfeasance comes into play, unless they did something which caused the damage they are not liable, and failure to maintain is not a cause of action, this is long settled by the courts.


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    #22
    GerardKeating
    Registered Users Posts: 7,526 ✭✭✭GerardKeating


    irish bloke wrote: »
    That's disgraceful if its the case - the dwell time between me paying and receiving compensation apparently is huge - that's even if I receive it.
    Fully intend fighting that if it turns out to be the case - legally via ombudsman or solicitor
    irish bloke wrote: »
    The last thing I want to do is claim off my own insurance for fear my premium would go up - complete false economy

    Some insurance companies allow one to make a claim and then repay them before the next renewal, does yours?


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    #23
    FishOnABike
    Registered Users Posts: 4,348 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    Do councils pay out for damage caused by poor road surfaces?

    I thought that there was a difference in liability between mal feasance and non feasance and the council could be liable for what they do but not what they don't do i.e if the road had been badly repaired and a pothole reoccurred due to the bad repair the council would possibly be liable but if the pothole occurred in a road due to gradual deterioration over time that the council would not be liable.

    I've driven into a pothole recently and suffered a blowout of a reasonably new tyre (just over three months old), luckily it was just the cost of a tyre and tracking but I just took the financial hit because I thought the council wasn't liable as the road didn't appear to have been any repairs to the road where the pothole was.

    EDIT: I see GM228's post above on the same principle.


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    #24
    GM228
    Registered Users Posts: 8,925 ✭✭✭GM228


    FishOnABike wrote: »
    Do councils pay out for damage caused by poor road surfaces?

    I thought that there was a difference in liability between mal feasance and non feasance and the council could be liable for what they do but not what they don't do i.e if the road had been baadly repaired and a pothole reoccurred due to the bad repait the council would possibly be liable but if the pothole occurred in a road due to gradual deterioration over time that the council would not be liable.

    I've driven into a pothole recently and suffered a blowout of a reasonably new tyre (just over three months old), luckiny it was just the cost of a tyre and tracking but I just took the financial hit because I thought the counhcil wasn't liable as the road didn't appear to have been any repairs to the road where the pothole was.

    No they don't, I posted it two posts back, it is long settled by our highest courts.


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    #25
    bladespin
    Registered Users Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭bladespin


    GM228 wrote: »
    No they don't, I posted it two posts back, it is long settled by our highest courts.

    Can you give some evidence of this? Plenty of posts here have said they do (depending on circumstances etc).


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    #26
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,123 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    bladespin wrote: »
    Can you give some evidence of this? Plenty of posts here have said they do (depending on circumstances etc).

    have a read here if you like. https://www.lawlibrary.ie/media/lawlibrary/media/Secure/20150214TortCraven.pdf


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    #27
    irish bloke
    Registered Users Posts: 2,057 ✭✭✭irish bloke


    GM228 wrote: »
    First thing people need to realise is that legally the Council is not liable for damage caused by a poor state of repair in the roads.

    The principles of misfeasance or nonfeasance comes into play, unless they did something which caused the damage they are not liable, and failure to maintain is not a cause of action, this is long settled by the courts.

    Thanks for this even though I had to look up the meaning of both terms:)

    In terms of the definition of Nonfeasance. This is the failure to act where action is required—willfully or in neglect.

    Is there not a case for Nonfeasance based on the fact there was a failure to act based on neglect?


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    #28
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,123 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    irish bloke wrote: »
    Thanks for this even though I had to look up the meaning of both terms:)

    In terms of the definition of Nonfeasance. This is the failure to act where action is required—willfully or in neglect.

    Is there not a case for Nonfeasance based on the fact there was a failure to act based on neglect?

    I think you misunderstood. If the damage to your vehicle is caused due to nonfeasance by the maintainer of the road then you do not have a claim.


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    #29
    GM228
    Registered Users Posts: 8,925 ✭✭✭GM228


    bladespin wrote: »
    Can you give some evidence of this? Plenty of posts here have said they do (depending on circumstances etc).

    They are not lawfully liable for failure to repair a road, that is not to say they won't pay out, but if you went to court to try and force them to then you will loose as the courts have already long held they are not liable.

    From the Gallagher vs Leitrim County Council [1955] 89 ILTR 151 High Court case:-
    The principle is that the local highway authorities are not liable for leaving public roads or footpaths in improper repair; they are not liable for failing to take steps to restore these roads or footpaths to a proper state of repair. If, however, they do anything and do it in such a way as to create a danger they are liable. They are not liable because they do not do the work in the manner which will give the most permanent results


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    #30
    irish bloke
    Registered Users Posts: 2,057 ✭✭✭irish bloke


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    I think you misunderstood. If the damage to your vehicle is caused due to nonfeasance by the maintainer of the road then you do not have a claim.

    But what if as GM228 called out "Unless they did something which caused the damage they are not liable" i.e repaired a hole poorly that got worse due to rain. Is this not the council doing something which caused my damage?


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    #31
    Mickeroo
    Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,134 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    I was aware one CoCo who used to pay out on damage from potholes but only if they were aware of the pothole beforehand (through someone reporting it to them or whatever).


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