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26-02-2019, 08:44   #61
Calhoun
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I don't understand how he did it, I wonder if there will be a documentary similar to the recent Jamie Bolger (detainment) in years to come when things aren't as raw.

I never understand people who have so much invested in their public image that a fall from grace could trigger something like this.
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26-02-2019, 08:51   #62
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Schools are governed by data protection.
And it would be the trustee who would be sued in any case like that. ie the diocese

He was a coward.
Not prepared to face up to his own actions and then to take the life of 4 innocent family members.
Crazy

Who has info on this?
INTO? Teaching Council? Tusla? Gardai?
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26-02-2019, 08:55   #63
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Originally Posted by wingsof daun View Post
We should not let our emotions control our thoughts on this terrible event. It should be blatantly obvious that mental illness was the complete driving force here. I highly doubt if it was a woman who done the same thing to her family there would be the same hatred directed towards her. In this twisted modern world, a woman would get more consolation and less hatred if it were her that resorted to murder of her family. It is so easy nowadays to target men, and in America it's a racial hatred of white men that seems to be all too common.
Ah here, the guy killed his whole family and left other family members and friends destroyed - it's that which is causing the rage towards him, not that he was a white man.

That said, if it were a woman, while there would still be a lot of hatred towards her, I agree there would be more of an attempt to understand why.

Plus, saying he wasn't mentally ill - how do people know this? One person said he wasn't depressed, he was crazy. Is crazy not mentally ill? He could very well have been mentally ill - who of sound mind would do that? I think people are insisting he wasn't mentally ill because of two reasons: they feel it exonerates him somewhat, and that it's an insult to others with mental illness.

It doesn't exonerate him in the least - he, and only he, still did it. And mental illness has a huge scale - there are people who do horrific things brought on by severe mental illness. The rest of those who have mental illnesses are nothing to do with them obviously.

Can't see what the significance is of him wanting to buy a bridesmaid's dress either. And a grown man watching porn - so what? (unless it was consuming his life).
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26-02-2019, 09:24   #64
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A monster, if he was shamed about school, he could have hopped on a plane to far away
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26-02-2019, 09:44   #65
 
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It's already out - he was caught "pleasuring himself" and watching porn on a computer at the school.


It's possible that data protection law prevents the authorities from releasing information about Alan Hawe without permission from his parents and brothers.
If this is true then are the school authorities liable for not installing security on the schools PC. Surely the Department of Education should have its equipment securely protected so it cant be easily by passed.

Has the information that he was caught masturbating come out officially, I dont think it was published at the Inquest. Even if he hadnt been caught masturbating which is gross on the premises of a primary school surely accessing porn would be a sackable offence too.
Pity he didnt just do away with himself.
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26-02-2019, 10:00   #66
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Mental illness like this, can be so hard to spot in your average everyday person.

Society does not want to acknowledge that we have people like Alan Hawe in our communities, silently suffering and struggling to keep themselves from going over the edge.

There is a deep outrage even at the suggestion that this was mental illness. But why is that? Whatever condition Alan Hawe was clearly suffering from, should be no direct reflection on any other unrelated mental illness... there are many different types, and thankfully most people suffering from mental illness will never do what this man sadly did.

But the longer society tries to brush these types of mental illness under the carpet as some simplistic "act of evil".... the longer it will take to find solutions and help prevent the next Alan Hawe!

Simply labelling someone as "evil" does nothing to help the situation (even if that is perhaps a natural human emotional reaction to this tragedy). This sort of line of thinking, is more suited to back in the bad old days of catholic Ireland... where we had "good" and "evil"... and everything else was dismissed as nonsense!
You hear references to rose-tinted glasses. Today grey-tinted glasses are worn by many.

Insisting on seeing grey in a black and white situation is actually nonsense.
If brutally wiping his own family doesn't meet the 'evil' notch on the bar I just don't know! And 'Roman Catholic' - really? Such a silly red herring here.
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26-02-2019, 10:00   #67
Obvious Desperate Breakfasts
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Originally Posted by wingsof daun View Post
We should not let our emotions control our thoughts on this terrible event. It should be blatantly obvious that mental illness was the complete driving force here. I highly doubt if it was a woman who done the same thing to her family there would be the same hatred directed towards her. In this twisted modern world, a woman would get more consolation and less hatred if it were her that resorted to murder of her family. It is so easy nowadays to target men, and in America it's a racial hatred of white men that seems to be all too common.
Please. When Catherine Nevin died a year ago, nobody was making excuses for her. It was a general “Ding dong, the witch is dead” attitude. And it reminded me of when her trial was going on. Public sympathy was not on her side. I never remember anyone mentioning anything about mental illness.

Last edited by Obvious Desperate Breakfasts; 26-02-2019 at 14:29.
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26-02-2019, 10:04   #68
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We all see the world from our perspective and so imo he saw himself as a very big fish. Like a huge fish. The fact that he was in a very small pond doesn't matter. To him that pond was his world. Therefore his impending fall from grace from being a respected pillar of that community to some kind of pervert would be a very big deal to him. I think he reacted to that threat to his position like a cornered rat.

Now the thing about porn. It's a funny thing because watching porn is fairly normal but because it's also a secret activity, it's often spoken about in a way to make it appear more shocking than it might be. For example I know many women seeking advice on parenting forums that they caught their partner watching porn and are very distressed and the replies will support that there is cause for that distress as in saying "my partner would never do that". Yeah right. The point I'm making really is that it's easy to blow the porn watching out of all proportion. However the fact that he was getting counselling for it, when most people watching it every night wouldn't dream of that, might show that he was quite hard on himself. That he has rigid notions as regards right and proper behaviour, notions that he couldn't live up to. Also if he was wearing ladies underwear and masturbating at work suggests he had a side that I would think was very much in conflict with his good conscience kind of thing. So it seems to me that he was not a man at peace with himself, easy in his skin but a man pretending to be 'good' when he felt 'bad'. He was likely rigid as regards the behaviour of his family also, as in his little pond, their behaviour would be a reflection on him, therefore a domineering husband and strict father.

I think why he killed them all was due to exposure. Imo he himself could not cope with that exposure but the tragedy was that he put his own feelings on them as if they were a package deal. I think he assumed for them that they couldn't cope either. That's back to the importance he placed on himself as the head of that family. Without him their lives would not be worth living or perhaps he reckoned their living with the shame would be too much. I think they died because of his overbearing sense of his own importance. But we're all guessing really because how do you figure out such a diabolical act.
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26-02-2019, 10:07   #69
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She said since his death she became aware he was wearing Clodaghs underwear and she said that Clodagh in her wildest dreams would have thought of that.
They said that they found this out after the inquest, which seems a bit strange. How could they have found out after the inquest?

If it mentioned in his note, surely they would have found out at the inquest?

Not excusing what he did in any way, but I'm wondering if he had a closet gay thing going on? I know cross dressing does not equal gay, but perhaps there were some deeply repressed issues coming out?
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26-02-2019, 10:07   #70
 
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He picked up a hatchet and murdered his defenceless wife with it. He was a very goid hand ball player in his youth so would have been strong enough to over power Clodagh easily, why use a hatchet and a knife, to me this meant rage. He was a monster, there is no other word for such evil and counselling is never going to help her mother and sister recover. He took their lives too.
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26-02-2019, 10:14   #71
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He picked up a hatchet and murdered his defenceless wife with it. He was a very goid hand ball player in his youth so would have been strong enough to over power Clodagh easily, why use a hatchet and a knife, to me this meant rage. He was a monster, there is no other word for such evil and counselling is never going to help her mother and sister recover. He took their lives too.
Like her sister said, he killed her like he hated her. An absolute monster. What makes me sad is the fact she was looking up holidays on the computer at the time, blissfully unaware about what was about to happen as she projects herself into the images in front of her of people sunning themselves and laughing.
What a coward he was. And I’m also happy that there was no references to him being a “GAA man” and “a pillar of the community”, more shlte that flooded the media in the aftermath, as if that makes any difference. He was a calculated, controlling and abusive bully who was so up his own fcuking arse he thought his family couldn’t manage without him. He should have killed himself only and done them a favour.
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26-02-2019, 10:27   #72
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Finally an intelligent and informed post. Kudos.

Unfortunately the masses really don't understand the complexities of mental health and the diverse and vast range of illnesses, symptoms and outcomes.

How a GP is meant to simply spot depression without the patient discussing it is beyond me. He could have been going to the GP for years for anything, and pretending to be fine.

I think the family would be better served receiving counselling themselves, not sure they'll get any kind of closure otherwise.
If he was mentally ill those 4 people had no chance. But I seriously believe they would be alive today if that animal hadn't been caught doing whatever he was doing in school.

Shame, embarrassment, control, weakness were what caused their deaths not mental health (depression).
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26-02-2019, 10:33   #73
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Like her sister said, he killed her like he hated her. An absolute monster. What makes me sad is the fact she was looking up holidays on the computer at the time, blissfully unaware about what was about to happen as she projects herself into the images in front of her of people sunning themselves and laughing.
What a coward he was. And I’m also happy that there was no references to him being a “GAA man” and “a pillar of the community”, more shlte that flooded the media in the aftermath, as if that makes any difference. He was a calculated, controlling and abusive bully who was so up his own fcuking arse he thought his family couldn’t manage without him. He should have killed himself only and done them a favour.

I don't think he hated her. I think he didn't see her as important at all, which is more insulting actually.


Yes, 2nd bolded just about sums it up.
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26-02-2019, 10:40   #74
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I don't think he hated her. I think he didn't see her as important at all, which is more insulting actually.


Yes, 2nd bolded just about sums it up.
Probably didn’t word it properly. Her sister said he killed her in a manner that was unnecessarily brutal and over the top, like he hated her, when there was nothing to suggest he hated his family to such a degree that he’d want to inflict that on them. If he wanted to wipe them out, I guess there are more humane ways of doing it. Also the fact this wasn’t just a spur of the moment panicked killing, he had been sitting on it for weeks, planning, plotting. He had come to terms with what he was about to do and seemed perfectly comfortable with such a brutal act. It doesn’t get more pre-medicated than what he did. Evil.

Last edited by retro:electro; 26-02-2019 at 10:49.
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26-02-2019, 10:52   #75
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Regarding the mum and sister, really and truly every single detail should be made available to them as they are the victims now. I don't understand who it serves (besides him but he's a murderer and anyway is dead) to keep stuff from them, even if only so they would not perhaps fill a vacuum by concentrating on the wrong details. It mist be insufferable for them to feel there is details of the story of their loved ones deaths that they are being kept in the dark about.
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