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27-01-2019, 18:37   #61
Gatling
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Originally Posted by foxy06 View Post
The crazy thing is even if he only shared a bed with them and didn't abuse them it's still not bloody right. Even if he had only done the things he has actually admitted to he is still a pervert. The man was a predator and his fans are blind to it because they just don't want to believe it. Change the person from Michael Jackson famous singer to Mick who lives on his own down the road and then everyone would agree to what he really is. A paedophile.
So if he didn't actually do anything he's a pervert and paedophile .
Big contradiction there No ?
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27-01-2019, 18:39   #62
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I can't believe how people come out saying 'xyz, happened, or such and such is not normal, he's a paedophile'. Where they there or something? Or are they just thinking they're putting 2 & 2 together so that's how it must have been and that allows them to make a matter of fact statement? Thats a rhetoric question btw.

Especially when its about someone who's dead and cant defend themselves or sue for slander I think its pretty low.
Ok so here are the facts

- a grown man befriended a multitude of young boys, and only boys, over the years. "Friendships" that ended once the boys hit puberty
- the grown man shared a bed with these boys regularly
- the bedroom where this took place was alarmed and had cameras outside the door to make the man aware if anyone was approaching
- the man provided the boys with alcohol and pornographic material (never disputed and evidence of this was found)
- several boys have accused this man of abusing them
- the man paid large sums of money out of court to the families of these boys


I mean, how can you deny that the evidence that he was a paedophile and sexual predator is overwhelming?
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27-01-2019, 18:41   #63
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Originally Posted by Gatling
So if he didn't actually do anything he's a pervert and paedophile . Big contradiction there No ?
I tell you what. I don't know if he's guilty or not but I'd hate some of these posters on a jury if I was a defendant. They'd be building the gallows before the court case started
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27-01-2019, 18:43   #64
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I mean, how can you deny that the evidence that he was a paedophile and sexual predator is overwhelming?
I didn't deny that, if you read what I wrote. I said yes you would think he was. So that means you can strongly believe he was. I probably do too tbh. But you cannot know. In the eye of the law he was/is innocent. So I will not go around making matter of fact statements publicly that he was. Thats all.
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27-01-2019, 18:43   #65
ceadaoin.
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How does being "ashamed" and "embarrassed" prompt you to get on the stand and confess under oath, in defence of MJ, at the age of 23? I haven't watched the documentary but nothing released by the media points to that so far.

Very happy to be corrected on this BTW, as I do think MJ was a low-life, but I just haven't seen any clear explanation online so far regarding his testimony at MJ's abuse trial.
If you just don't get how powerful the feelings of shame and embarrassment in abuse victims can be then you never will, and its pointless trying to change your mind.

To me there is sufficient explanation as to why they may have lied previously.
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27-01-2019, 18:44   #66
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. It is most definitely wrong to say that someone found not guilty is guilty.
How many changes was he charged with? How many victims were involved in the case? He was found not guilty of those particular charges. That does not make him not guilty of any offences!
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27-01-2019, 18:48   #67
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There’s nothing innocent about a grown man sleeping in the same bed as young boys, having alarms and censors fitted so he knew when people were approaching his bedroom, and having his whole house kitted out like a children’s fantasy wonderland. He was a paedophile.

But if all you quote is a pack of lies, about bells, and whistles, and sensors then it just leads gullible people to believe a ''film'' instead of a court where facts rule, not fiction.
He had the whole LAPD, FBI and CIA trying to bring him down in court, and they had nothing concrete to go on, even after raiding his home they found nothing like what is mentioned in this film. Plus Wade himself said nothing happened and defended him in court. I dunno who convinced Wade that he was abused, but he has been convinced, he now believes it. But even his lawsuit was laughed out of court. Fiction works very well in films, and its where his stories belong, but in in the real world in courts the facts rule.
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27-01-2019, 18:51   #68
PlentyOhToole
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But how can you 'agree' on something you simply cannot know? You can believe he is a paedophile but you cant make that a matter of fact statement.

There is a good chance he was. But by all accounts he was pretty messed up in the head and behaved in many ways like an adult child. Like this whole Peter Pan obsession and the Kinderland mansion. Thats not really something someone would do who simply wants to fiddle with children. He had tons of money and all sorts of means to do that in different ways I'm sure.

Like I said one would think he was, I have to agree on that, but you just don't know. But of course nowadays everyone knows. Especially on the internet.
By taking into account what is known now about such behaviour, and adding the "balance of probability" factor, and taking into account his vast wealth and numerous hangers on who relied on his continued success for their next pay check and people beholding to him, then it is more likely than not, that he was.

Of course no-one can say for certain- especially if you apply a very strict legal definition to proof. He's dead now. And we'll never absolutely know for sure with the current information known to us.

But he brought an awful lot of this attention on himself and IMHO he deserves that negative attention. My own PERSONAL belief, is that he pushed the technical areas of law to its limit to hide his fascination and obsession with young boys.
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27-01-2019, 18:51   #69
Sleeper12
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Originally Posted by ceadaoin.
I mean, how can you deny that the evidence that he was a paedophile and sexual predator is overwhelming?

What evidence? You haven't presented any. He was found not guilty with all of the evidence you listed. He wasn't found guilty of showing porn, plying children with drink or doing anything wrong. The jury found that the evidence you listed as proof actually meant nothing. You know more than the jury that heard every detail?

His only two accusers now, swore under oath that he never touched them in a court of law.

Again I don't know if he is guilty or not.
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27-01-2019, 18:52   #70
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If you just don't get how powerful the feelings of shame and embarrassment in abuse victims can be then you never will, and its pointless trying to change your mind.

To me there is sufficient explanation as to why they may have lied previously.
I was groomed at the age of 13 by a CIE bus conductor. So don't lecture me on feelings of shame.

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27-01-2019, 18:55   #71
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I tell you what. I don't know if he's guilty or not but I'd hate some of these posters on a jury if I was a defendant. They'd be building the gallows before the court case started
To be honest if someone in your life was inviting around children for sleepovers you'd be more than puzzled.
Jackson was a genuinely outstanding musician (especially compared to the forgettable dross nowdays) but there are a few too many character foibles that point to something being not quite right with him.
I find the people literally protesting the movie a bit lost as nobody knows for sure one way or the other but I wouldn't condone him having sleepovers with kids no matter how f**ked up his childhood likely was or how well intended they may have been.
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27-01-2019, 19:03   #72
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I’ve always been a fan of MJs music and that’s not something I’m ashamed of - you have to separate the music and the man.

As a person though there’s no denying he was one seriously disturbed individual. I don’t if anyone has seen the interview with Michael Bashir - it made my skin crawl.

There’s no question that how he behaved with children was completely inappropriate and inexcusable and if there was sexual abuse involved I still don’t understand why any of the families involved settled.

If it were my child there would be no stopping me going after him. I understand the victims themselves being scared or ashamed but their parents surely can’t use that as an excuse.
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27-01-2019, 19:06   #73
Sleeper12
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How many changes was he charged with? How many victims were involved in the case? He was found not guilty of those particular charges. That does not make him not guilty of any offences!
How many charges was he found guilty of is mores the point
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27-01-2019, 19:07   #74
Gatling
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There’s no question that how he behaved with children was completely inappropriate and inexcusable and I still don’t understand why any of the families involved settled.

If it were my child there would be no stopping me going after him.
Money they were only interested in the money for themselves and not their children , especially in America litigation is more important than actual justice ,
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27-01-2019, 19:10   #75
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Money they were only interested in the money for themselves and not their children , especially in America litigation is more important than actual justice ,
I find hard to believe any parent would put money before taking down the sicko who abused their child.

It’s the only aspect of the whole case that makes me question whether Jackson’s interactions with the children, whilst totally inappropriate and creepy, went as far as actual sexual abuse.

I have no doubt he was in the process of grooming the children though.
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