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Government announce major policy contradiction just to please LGBT

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭beejee


    Why have a birth certificate in its current form at all?

    A piece of paper with time, date and hospital should do.

    Instead of playing games, just get to the natural conclusion.

    No need for "parents"


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 428 ✭✭blueshade


    ... and yet here you are...


    Ah, the pandering defense. In the same way giving women the vote was "pandering"? And allowing black people enter universities is "pandering"? And allowing gay people to legally marry the person the love is "pandering"?



    Feelings like getting frustrated at the idea of other people you feel are don't like sharing the same level as you, and feeling like you have to create a smokescreen to hide the level of discomfort you feel about it?

    Because - as I have pointed out and you have not disagreed with - it makes no difference to you, to the child or to society.

    Now you are just being silly. I have made it very clear that all parents regardless of their sexuality, should have equal legal rights. Unlike you my priority is the rights of the child not whether or not a same sex couple can get to dictate reality. A man does not give birth to a child, two men don't create a child, 2 women don't create a child. There is no reason why a same sex couple can't make wonderful parents but reality is what it is and the child is what comes first. Equal rights for all parents regardless of gender or sexuality absolutely, makey uppey nonsense cause of ''feelz'' fook that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,875 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    blueshade wrote: »
    Now you are just being silly. I have made it very clear that all parents regardless of their sexuality, should have equal legal rights.
    Unlike you my priority is the rights of the child not whether or not a same sex couple can get to dictate reality.
    Bull****.
    Again - third time: what specific rights are you refering to?
    A man does not give birth to a child, two men don't create a child, 2 women don't create a child. There is no reason why a same sex couple can't make wonderful parents but reality is what it is and the child is what comes first. Equal rights for all parents regardless of gender or sexuality absolutely, makey uppey nonsense cause of ''feelz'' fook that.

    Again - bull****. You haven't actually disagreed with my synopsis or defended your position. If anything, you're strengthened my belief that you want to have someone beneath you by trying to be condescending and talking down.

    Saying the same thing over and over again like a mantra doesn't actually change anything - it just makes you look like you have nothing of substance to say but can't admit it.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,160 ✭✭✭Huntergonzo


    Would it be unreasonable to have a section on a birth cert for biological father and biological mother and then another section for say parent 1, parent 2 etc (if different from biological).

    This way the child still has a factual document identifying the 2 people who were responsible for their birth and also the people who they consider their actual parents (which in the majority of cases will be the same people anyway).


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 667 ✭✭✭Balf


    This way the child still has a factual document identifying the 2 people who were responsible for their birth and also the people who they consider their actual parents (which in the majority of cases will be the same people anyway).
    We could, but I'd expect we'd have a similar discussion around who goes where and what being named entails.

    And its not all about SSM. Some of it impacts on situations where couples seek outside assistance and take different approaches that end up with a baby - whether IVF through a licenced clinic, or some other route.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 428 ✭✭blueshade


    Bull****.
    Again - third time: what specific rights are you refering to?



    Again - bull****. You haven't actually disagreed with my synopsis or defended your position. If anything, you're strengthened my belief that you want to have someone beneath you by trying to be condescending and talking down.

    Saying the same thing over and over again like a mantra doesn't actually change anything - it just makes you look like you have nothing of substance to say but can't admit it.

    You genuinely seem like a very disturbed individual, I hope you aren't a parent.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,875 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    blueshade wrote: »
    You genuinely seem like a very disturbed individual, I hope you aren't a parent.

    So, two simple questions resulting in three no-answers and now an ad homeinem.

    You don't give a **** about children's rights (proven) you just don't believe in equal rights and don't want other people to have them. Also proven.

    Only place to go from here is for you to drag it down to the point we're throwing insults at each other, and I don't get dragged into that ****. I've proven what I came to prove and you evidently have no interest in debate. Three chances should be enough for anyone.

    I leave you to have one last insult which I will never read. Good night.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,112 ✭✭✭Quantum Erasure


    a child (or everyone) should have the right to know their biological parents. A woman who gives birth is presumed to be the biological mother, so her name goes on the birth cert. If married, her husband is presumed to be the biological father.
    Maybe this needs to be looked at again to ensure the ones named on the birth cert are the actual biological parents.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 428 ✭✭blueshade


    So, two simple questions resulting in three no-answers and now an ad homeinem.

    You don't give a **** about children's rights (proven) you just don't believe in equal rights and don't want other people to have them. Also proven.

    Only place to go from here is for you to drag it down to the point we're throwing insults at each other, and I don't get dragged into that ****. I've proven what I came to prove and you evidently have no interest in debate. Three chances should be enough for anyone.

    I leave you to have one last insult which I will never read. Good night.

    Of course you'll read my post because you wallow in self righteousness and anyone who disagrees with you feeds your victim mentality. You don't want to discuss it with me because I've proved you wrong and you don't like that. I didn't want to insult you. I simply wanted to keep things realistic, you are the one who wants to live in some kind of makey uppey fantasy world were facts are replaced by feelz.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,875 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Would it be unreasonable to have a section on a birth cert for biological father and biological mother and then another section for say parent 1, parent 2 etc (if different from biological).

    This way the child still has a factual document identifying the 2 people who were responsible for their birth and also the people who they consider their actual parents (which in the majority of cases will be the same people anyway).

    That's what's being proposed. As I said earlier: as long as the child has access to the identity of its birth parents upon adulthood. To not allow for this would for health reasons at the very least, would be negligent.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,160 ✭✭✭Huntergonzo


    That's what's being proposed. As I said earlier: as long as the child has access to the identity of its birth parents upon adulthood. To not allow for this would for health reasons at the very least, would be negligent.

    Well look it, if that's the case then fair enough, I'd have no issue with it.

    Biological parents should always be documented on a birth cert where possible. After that, it's fair game.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 21,934 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ten of Swords


    Why don't you read the act in full and see what is actually happening, post 43

    I get the impression that quite a few posters here haven't got the slightest idea what they're actually arguing about, and the link in the op did not have nearly enough detail :rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 667 ✭✭✭Balf


    Why don't you read the act in full and see what is actually happening, post 43

    I get the impression that quite a few posters here haven't got the slightest idea what they're actually arguing about, and the link in the op did not have nearly enough detail :rolleyes:
    In one sense, you're right. At the risk of sounding like a life coach, isn't discussion better when we approach it in the expectation that the other people know stuff that we don't.

    As I understand it, all the Minister is actually doing now is bringing that piece of legislation into force. However, from what news coverage seems to be saying, there is a campaign to go far beyond that legislation.

    The legislation says (as I understand it) that, where all parties have participated in a regulated fertility service - which means everyone's role is known up front, the registration can reflect that fact.

    The campaign wants even informal arrangements to be formally recognised. That provokes quite a lot of questions, not the least of which is what happens when folk dispute the detail of the informal arrangement. And I'm not sure the public debate is being sufficiently challenged.
    https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/parental-rights-lgbt-4878542-Nov2019/

    This Act covers same-sex couples who use a non-anonymous donor through an Irish clinic. We tried this and in spite of a lot of different treatments and approaches, it wasn’t successful......

    After an expensive and traumatic few years, our friend decided to help us and donate sperm. We were delighted that after two attempts, Gabriela became pregnant and our son Luca was born. ...

    It’s frustrating as we have Irish friends in England and Canada who are in the same situation as us but they have full parental rights. Why can’t Ireland just copy their laws?
    I'm not sure its as simple as that. A UK Government website says
    https://www.gov.uk/legal-rights-for-egg-and-sperm-donors

    If you’re a sperm donor, you could be the legal parent of any child born from your donation. ....
    If you give birth to a child, you’re always considered the legal mother in UK law even when using a donated egg.
    And, just to be doubly clear, I'm not saying that just because the UK do something, we should follow. I haven't noticed anyone (with any actual mandate) saying we should leave the EU.


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