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Should I stop visiting his family?

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    #32
    strandroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    isohon wrote: »
    That is unnecessarily harsh. The OP clearly explained that they can speak some German but that it is not sufficient for full fluid conversation. That is something that can take years, and comes much more difficultly for some. The OP clearly tries to participate in conversation, I don't think it is unreasonable for the Mother and GF make an effort to occasionally speak in English, for instance if the topic is particularly complicated they could at least use some English to help the OP along.

    They don't even need to switch to English, if OP has German good enough for work all they need to do is be more considerate in their conversation in German. Speak a little slower, use more basic phrases, make sure they don't veer into specialist topics, finally keep including her on the side if their mainstream conversation becomes too much. It's only basic good manners, and if the family is not willing to be welcoming I'm afraid there is a hidden meaning to it.


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    #33
    Ursus Horribilis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,168 ✭✭✭Ursus Horribilis


    isohon wrote: »
    Have to disagree, mildly. It is pretty clear, to me at least, that this is a very close family. If the OP is the only one who suddenly stops showing up during their regular visits its inevitably going to put her on the outside. Not saying that is fair or right, but its just reality.

    We'll have to agree to disagree :) I have no problem with people staying in touch with their families but having to go to them every single weekend would be a deal breaker for me. I feel stifled just reading this thread


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    #34
    tara73
    Registered Users Posts: 2,342 ✭✭✭tara73


    ok, regarding your last, longer post with clarifications I think the onus is on you then.

    I don't really understand your problems with learning the language I have to say. Your boyfriend is german and it's the best way or chance to learn a language with all it's facets and little sayings you won't learn in many courses. Do you speak german with him? You should.

    And seriously, maybe you don't have to follow or understand every detail the family discusses about their job, politics or whatever they discuss. I still think you are too sensitive here, being hard on yourself and the others, maybe you have too high expectations in general?


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    #35
    facehugger99
    Registered Users Posts: 7,215 ✭✭✭facehugger99


    Stop visiting so often - every second weekend is crazy.

    Once every couple of months would be loads.


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    #36
    screamer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,131 ✭✭✭screamer


    Ah well my MIL and husband just talk about the local gossip when we visit. I don’t know any of the people they talk about and I’m quite excluded from participating in any meaningful way. They speak English BTW so it’s not a language barrier. For me, it’s her way to control things, and local gossip is about the only commonality they have left. I learned years ago to stop trying, so when we visit, once they take off gossiping, I read a paper or a book. It doesn’t bother me anymore, I just figured out the game, maybe you need to do likewise.


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    #37
    isohon
    Registered Users Posts: 109 ✭✭isohon


    strandroad wrote: »
    They don't even need to switch to English, if OP has German good enough for work all they need to do is be more considerate in their conversation in German. Speak a little slower, use more basic phrases, make sure they don't veer into specialist topics, finally keep including her on the side if their mainstream conversation becomes too much.

    Precisely my point, and the reason I am perplexed by alot of the reaction on this thread. I would never carry on a conversation in front of someone who is ostensibly involved in the conversation in a way that precluded someone from engaging. This doesn't even have to be a cross-lingual matter. There are many people one may come across daily who speak native English who may not have the same fluency as one does. You are a prick, IMHO, if you fail to recognize and then accommodate them. It is just basic manners.
    strandroad wrote: »
    It's only basic good manners, and if the family is not willing to be welcoming I'm afraid there is a hidden meaning to it.

    Perhaps. But I rather not engage with that thought given everything the OP has said. It seems like an ignorant action the family are willing to indulge in. Perhaps because they don't yet understand just how negatively it is affecting the OP.


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    #38
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    I mean if he goes every weekend ..that is fine. You don't have to go every weekend. Unless you want to.

    I think once every two months would be normal. My brother would visit my parents every second weekend ..but his gf has not ever met them yet once.

    Then when you do meet them just be nice and polite. Every little issue can't be this big sit down talk thing.


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    #39
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    The Young Wan wrote: »
    Do we ever have weekends to ourselves? Not really, Unless we have already planned something is on. As I said, he seems his family every weekend- I asked him once why he goes, and he said "because I guess if I didn't my Mam would be upset or mad." I kind of get the feeling she is a little lonely and needs the company.
    She's not lonely, she's a matriarch.

    She calls the shots, she decides what her family does and how they do it, and she guilts her children into doing things by being "upset" when they have a mind of their own.

    This to me would fit very well with her not making an effort to include you in conversation. You're an add-on. Her son's girlfriend. It is up to you to make an effort to please her, it is not up to her to include you. Comments about her not being surprised if you stopped coming are a snide way of saying that she's not sure if you fit in the family. And because she's the matriarch, only she decides if someone is the right "fit" for the family.

    It wouldn't surprise me if her control freakery is the reason her marriage ended.

    There's not a massive amount that you can do here except to take control over your own time. Your boyfriend is going to do what he's been raised to do. All you can do is try and encourage a little change.

    My advice would be to change your visits to every second weekend. Or one a month. Set up your routine so that you're less available on the weekends. Let your boyfriend head off if he wants to, but make it clear that you'd love for him to stay there with you.

    Book the odd trip away - with him. Give the opportunity to see that the sky doesn't fall in when he doesn't go home at the weekend. His mother won't be lonely; doesn't she have other children and ex-spouses who are always visiting?

    Ultimately if his relationship with his mother remains so joined at the hip, then you have to consider the future. Do you really want to spend the next X years fighting for some attention at the weekends? Looking for a quiet night in watching TV, but he insists that he has to go to his mother?
    Do you want a wedding where his family speak only within themselves in German? Do you want his mother to be constantly complaining that she only gets to see her grandchildren one weekend a month and that you should be packing the whole family into the car every weekend? When you visit will be happy that she only speaks to you in German, no matter how well your comprehension might become?

    Do you see yourself living in Germany for the rest of your life? Because I bet you any money that he does his mother won't let him emigrate.


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    #40
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    seamus wrote: »
    She's not lonely, she's a matriarch.

    She calls the shots, she decides what her family does and how they do it, and she guilts her children into doing things by being "upset" when they have a mind of their own.


    Someone who does that IS very lonely. And has a fear of being alone and abandoned. Someone like that fears being left and feels worthless they don't feel they are worthy of being with without control.

    I guess they need a combination of firm boundaries along with reassurance that she won't ever be left alone she is a part of the family people will be there for her because they want to be. But that boundaries are needed to.

    I suppose telling her is no good. Perhaps she won't accept it that way. But if your behavior is like that ..and demonstrates that ..i find people have an easier time accepting it.


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    #41
    Ursus Horribilis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,168 ✭✭✭Ursus Horribilis


    Controlling and lonely can be two sides of the same coin. Seamus raised some valid points here which I think you should give some consideration to. What are your long-term plans? If you continue in a relationship with your boyfriend, you won't be coming back to Ireland. Lonely/controlling mammy will see to that. The question also needs to be asked about where he sees himself living in a few years time. If he's still so tightly bound to his family, does he foresee himself moving back home. Would you be OK with living in bosom of this tight-knit family?

    Should you continue to live where you are now and you have kids, how will you cope? Will it be those endless weekend treks back to his home place with a baby in tow?


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    #42
    joeguevara
    Registered Users Posts: 7,993 ✭✭✭joeguevara


    No couple needs to see parents every weekend. And I mean none.

    You have drip fed information but at the end of the day you don't enjoy going there and wouldn't it be better if you spent the days with your bf. From your description ye don't spend a lot of time with each Other. And why is he going to his parents every weekend?

    Do ye want to spend time alone?


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    #43
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    I wouldn't stop going OP but I would stop going every single weekend. Honestly that is just too much. If the brothers GF goes every weekend thats her choice. I don't have an issue with your OH going every weekend but I wouldn't expect a partner to go. How far away are they? Are you staying overnight or is it just a meal you are meeting up for? If its an overnight thing that would really stress me out regardless of language issues as its the whole weekend gone and you've go work during the week - when do you have time to do anything else like clean, wash clothes etc etc If it's just for the afternoon thats a little more bearable but I'd still only be going every two weeks at most.

    As for the language thing, its all well and good telling the OP to get better but that takes time, meanwhile I find it very rude that you are being told the family want you to come and then proceed to have conversations that are too difficult for you to understand and even if you did sounds like you'd have little interest in anyway. Similar to yourself OP I live in my partners country and don't have full grasp of the language but he's family and friends make sure to explain things to me and have helped me improve.


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    #44
    zapper55
    Registered Users Posts: 684 ✭✭✭zapper55


    Leaving aside the German for a second, I think its incredibly rude that they talk about their work all night. Think it only confirms that they are trying to put you off going. If I went to my parents for dinner with a partner and they spoke about work all night and it was a pattern I wouldnt be long saying it to them. But they'd never make.someone feel that unwelcome in the first place.

    Your partner sounds completely crap in this situation. Is he always this passive? And if there was a disagreement between you and his mother for some reason you could be fairly sure he'd back her. Is this what you want for your life?


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    #45
    pinkyeye
    Registered Users Posts: 1,293 ✭✭✭pinkyeye


    Okay, lets reverse the situation here.

    If OP lived in Ireland with their German partner would all of the OP's family speak German in a social situation??

    I don't bleeding thing so. :rolleyes::rolleyes:


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    #46
    joeguevara
    Registered Users Posts: 7,993 ✭✭✭joeguevara


    pinkyeye wrote: »
    Okay, lets reverse the situation here.

    If OP lived in Ireland with their German partner would all of the OP's family speak German in a social situation??

    I don't bleeding thing so. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

    Exactly. And if someone visited my house every weekend it would get grating. There is only so much niceties one can endure before you just want to relax and not have to entertain.


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    #47
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    pinkyeye wrote: »
    Okay, lets reverse the situation here.

    If OP lived in Ireland with their German partner would all of the OP's family speak German in a social situation??

    I don't bleeding thing so. :rolleyes::rolleyes:
    If they could all speak German and the partner struggled with English, then yeah I'd say they would speak German, at least some of the time.

    At the very least my experience in Ireland is that we go out of our way to talk simpler English (sometimes unnecessarily) when in the company of non-English speakers.

    What the OP describes isn't a cultural thing, but just people being rude. But I do agree with Joe in that having to include non-native speakers in the conversation can be quite tiring, especially if their fluency is poor.


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    #48
    isohon
    Registered Users Posts: 109 ✭✭isohon


    pinkyeye wrote: »
    Okay, lets reverse the situation here.

    If OP lived in Ireland with their German partner would all of the OP's family speak German in a social situation??

    I don't bleeding thing so. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

    I don't think the OP has asked, or expects the whole family to speak English in all situations where she is present. I think she is expressing frustration at the fact that she is in an undesirable situation, it has different facets. A. She doesn't have the lingual ability to converse freely as she likes. B. Because she, to date, the expectation and experience has been that she attend these weekly get togethers. C. she is feeling stuck because, in spite of raising how she feels those around her have offered no way to remedy it.

    I've said it before, but I find the reaction to the OP in this thread to be a bit bizarre.


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    #49
    osarusan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,545 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    Don't go there as often, and continue to improve your German but for your own sake.

    It may be separate or connected, but your boyfriend doesn't need to go there every weekend either.

    As somebody said, try to organise a weekend away, see how he reacts to that. See if he will say he can't go because he 'has to' visit his mother.


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