Dublin Marathon moves to lottery entries!

solidasarock · 29-10-2019 4:33pm

6run28 wrote: »

Also there doesnt seem to be a contingency if lottery is undersold ? Less than 20k of places were sold by end of November last year when lottery applications close this year

I would guess less then the total 22k will be available for the November lottery. They will "sell out"

Its like Ticketmaster works now for major concerts. You only make a percentage of places actually available day 1 to general public so you can make the real money selling tickets at a mark up price via other channels. Then you slowly trickle out more tickets to spike demand now and again leading up to the big day which again will push the unlucky people to look elsewhere to get their spot.

PhilOssophy · 29-10-2019 4:36pm

They are going about this all wrong.
There was 5k no-shows, either people who thought it was a good idea at the time, or who didn't realise how far it was, etc.
They should look at a system of transfers, right up to a few weeks before the event. If somebody gets injured on their 20 mile run they should be able to transfer their entry if they can.
Also, they should charge the full amount if you are successful in the ballot, no questions asked. Stop people entering for the sake of it. They are only adding to the admin issues

dublin runner · 29-10-2019 4:45pm

Whatever about the merits of the lottery system, communication has been poor and shortsighted.

I am not a fan of the lottery system with that said, the 'first come, first served' worked well. Dublin is not London. Dublin took many weeks to sell out, with plenty of notice. The public backlash to it selling out was unwarranted in 2019, especially as they drastically improved their message - particularly on social media - significantly. Lesson learned.

I am a fan of the 'Good for Age' concept, especially aligning it with club membership. Unfortunately, in my view, the communication of this - especially detail and workings - was very poorly thought out and mishandled.

Good for Age
-Not announcing this prior to DCM was a questionable decision. This should have been declared well in advance of the 2019 edition. What are the times? No one knows. Athletes should have been informed of the times necessary to guarantee qualification for 2020.
-Are Age Category winners guaranteed a ticket?

In an information vacuum, people rightfully get annoyed. The GFA aspect, in particular, asks more questions than it answers. The release of the information leaves much to be desired.

I hope I am wrong but I suspect it is more concerned with monetising the event further (nothing wrong with that in theory), or a poor attempt as garnering extra publicity and therefore, increase demand. The increase in entry fee supports this argument.

RacoonQueen · 29-10-2019 4:48pm

Lottery seems pointless given the entry doesn't sell out for a couple of weeks still, if they moved it back to the Monday, it would take months to sell out.

What bothers me is this GFA entry for club runners rubbish. There should NOT be any barrier to entry to a championship event to championship runners, no matter what their ability is. To introduce this here is yet another barrier for the slower club members to think they are not good enough, as many already think when it comes to track/XC running and they won't take it up then because of that.
Not happy with any change that affects club runners ability to take part in a championship race, there is a very small % of entrants that are club runners as it is and sure if you end up with 50% of runners in the marathon being club runners because people join clubs so they can get an entry, so be it, that would be a fricken huge financial benefit to athletics clubs in Ireland, it would easily be avoided anyway by letting clubs do the championship entries so they only enter long term or active members rather than ones who only join to get the champ entry.

jonnbinn · 29-10-2019 4:51pm

Think people are being pretty unfair here in their criticism of the organisers claiming that it's just done for the money etc. The same people have been involved in organising the marathon for years now, taking it from the hard times with no sponsors to building it up year on year to the fantastic event it has become ove the last few years.

It must be an absolutely monumental task organising a marathon, and if this is being done with a view to raising the cap on entrys (as it seems to be from what i have read) then whats the problem with that? Bigger events lead to bigger sponsership deals and you can't run events of this size without sponsers. So maybe cut them some slack and trust that they are doing it for the right reasons.

andrew1977 · 29-10-2019 4:54pm

Page 37 of the marathon race programme I received in my good bag advertises “register early and secure your place “ for 2020 race .

Baffling carry on .

RacoonQueen · 29-10-2019 4:55pm

nannerby wrote: »

I don't think that counts in the marathon champs.

KSU wrote: »

It does unless there is prior approval from the

RD.

Seems the rule has changed. Previously the marathon was specifically excluded from requirement of wearing club singlet, AI rulebook now states

Marathon Championships

Athlete must wear club singlet alternatives permitted in certain circumstances with permission of meet manager / director on application with entry.

PaulieC · 29-10-2019 4:56pm

jonnbinn wrote: »

Think people are being pretty unfair here in their criticism of the organisers claiming that it's just done for the money etc. The same people have been involved in organising the marathon for years now, taking it from the hard times with no sponsors to building it up year on year to the fantastic event it has become ove the last few years.

It must be an absolutely monumental task organising a marathon, and if this is being done with a view to raising the cap on entrys (as it seems to be from what i have read) then whats the problem with that? Bigger events lead to bigger sponsership deals and you can't run events of this size without sponsers. So maybe cut them some slack and trust that they are doing it for the right reasons.

That's all very well and reasonable but one thing about the new system is that the graduated pricing has gone and now you will not be able to enter for less than 93 euros. If it wasn't a money grab, why not just reduce the price to everyone so everyone pays the same amount and everyone has an equal chance of getting in ?

peter kern · 29-10-2019 4:59pm

PhilOssophy wrote: »

They are going about this all wrong.
There was 5k no-shows, either people who thought it was a good idea at the time, or who didn't realise how far it was, etc.
They should look at a system of transfers, right up to a few weeks before the event. If somebody gets injured on their 20 mile run they should be able to transfer their entry if they can.
Also, they should charge the full amount if you are successful in the ballot, no questions asked. Stop people entering for the sake of it. They are only adding to the admin issues

20% is the number every race calculates as no shows so the issue is all that use this number off 5000 have not the slightest idea how this works.

but I totally agree those days its so simple to change names and let the people deal how to pay for the entrance .

its interesting they get way with a 27% price increase for many entries and hardly anybody complains. Masterpiece i have to say .

nannerby · 29-10-2019 5:01pm

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Seems the rule has changed. Previously the marathon was specifically excluded from requirement of wearing club singlet, AI rulebook now states

Marathon Championships

Athlete must wear club singlet alternatives permitted in certain circumstances with permission of meet manager / director on application with entry.

Yes I didn't realise it had been changed its been some years since I ran it.

Murph_D · 29-10-2019 5:02pm

PaulieC wrote: »

That's all very well and reasonable but one thing about the new system is that the graduated pricing has gone and now you will not be able to enter for less than 93 euros. If it wasn't a money grab, why not just reduce the price to everyone so everyone pays the same amount and everyone has an equal chance of getting in ?

Well we don't know yet what the AAI member price is going to be. Maybe there will be a discount?

rainbow kirby · 29-10-2019 5:11pm

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Not happy with any change that affects club runners ability to take part in a championship race, there is a very small % of entrants that are club runners as it is and sure if you end up with 50% of runners in the marathon being club runners because people join clubs so they can get an entry, so be it, that would be a fricken huge financial benefit to athletics clubs in Ireland, it would easily be avoided anyway by letting clubs do the championship entries so they only enter long term or active members rather than ones who only join to get the champ entry.

I'm inclined to agree with this. I'm a 5 hour ish finisher normally - I ran with a lady in Manchester in April for a decent chunk of the race who was in her late 60s. She ran 4:50 but was a scorer for her club in the team race because she was running for a relatively small club. I'd hate to think that people like that would be discouraged from the championship race - the numbers aren't huge in terms of the club championship race so don't screw the club runners over.

PaulieC · 29-10-2019 5:13pm

Murph_D wrote: »

Well we don't know yet what the AAI member price is going to be. Maybe there will be a discount?

maybe. It's just one of the very many questions left unanswered by the announcement.

jonnbinn · 29-10-2019 5:16pm

PaulieC wrote: »

That's all very well and reasonable but one thing about the new system is that the graduated pricing has gone and now you will not be able to enter for less than 93 euros. If it wasn't a money grab, why not just reduce the price to everyone so everyone pays the same amount and everyone has an equal chance of getting in ?

I dont really have an explaination for that...except to say that all races have gone up in price over the last couple of years (even your local 5 & 10ks) Out of interest when was the last price increase for Dublin? (Last year was my first time running so not sure what it was before that) also where does €93 come when compared to other european marathons of similar size?

bucketybuck · 29-10-2019 5:19pm

jonnbinn wrote: »

So maybe cut them some slack and trust that they are doing it for the right reasons.

Nothing wrong with wanting to know what those reasons are.

They are implementing a lottery system for an event that doesn't immediately sell out, is that not a little strange? So what exactly is the problem they are using this to solve?

bucketybuck · 29-10-2019 5:21pm

jonnbinn wrote: »

I dont really have an explaination for that...except to say that all races have gone up in price over the last couple of years (even your local 5 & 10ks) Out of interest when was the last price increase for Dublin?

I have no problem at all with the price going up, that's just simple economics.

Downtime · 29-10-2019 5:30pm

is_that_so wrote: »

There goes the I've run every marathon record for some!

The 13 folks that have run all 40 have guaranteed lifetime entry.

ted1 · 29-10-2019 5:36pm

jonnbinn wrote: »

I dont really have an explaination for that...except to say that all races have gone up in price over the last couple of years (even your local 5 & 10ks) Out of interest when was the last price increase for Dublin? (Last year was my first time running so not sure what it was before that) also where does €93 come when compared to other european marathons of similar size?

Barcelona 61.50
Lisbon 55
Copenhagen 93
Paris 90
Berlin 125
Riga 37
Milan 55

is_that_so · 29-10-2019 5:39pm

Downtime wrote: »

The 13 folks that have run all 40 have guaranteed lifetime entry.

Is that true? Good for them if it is.

jonnbinn · 29-10-2019 5:40pm

bucketybuck wrote: »

Nothing wrong with wanting to know what those reasons are.

They are implementing a lottery system for an event that doesn't immediately sell out, is that not a little strange? So what exactly is the problem they are using this to solve?

Read something over on one of the FB running groups that mentioned (probably speculation) that the reason for the lottery was to get lots of people to sign up so that they could take that number and use it to convince the county council, garda etc. that the interest is there.

Apparently, the reason the numbers are capped to the current amount is because that is all the start/finish areas can cater for currently. Whereas, a move to, say, the Phoenix Park would allow bigger numbers.

Again, thats probably all speculation but its a good talking point at least!

Singer · 29-10-2019 5:42pm

jonnbinn wrote: »

I dont really have an explaination for that...

Jim Aughney explained the need for price increases in the recent interview with the Runner Beans podcast, a lot of their expenses have increased. Inflation is not zero, and I think it still represents pretty good value for money for a high quality citywide event in Dublin.

Glencarraig · 29-10-2019 6:16pm

justdoit wrote: »

Re. GFA places, am I reading correctly that these will only be open to Athletics Ireland members ie not overseas runners? This is very different to the marathon majors where the qualifying standards are openly the target for many people's other races...

GFA entries for London are only available to "UK residents". New York uses a qualifying system from NYRR approved races and overseas GFA's can enter a lottery. The GFA cutoffs vary widely from major to major. I qualified for Boston with 3.24.30 which gave me a 35 minute cushion but I scraped into Berlin by only 30 seconds.

Glencarraig · 29-10-2019 6:26pm

nannerby wrote: »

I don't think that counts in the marathon champs.

It is an AI rule but rarely enforced.

sideswipe · 29-10-2019 6:26pm

Hopefully they will start to require proof of previous finish time to allocate wave positions. I think there is more of a tendency for people to use wave 1 as an early start option rather than going for their correct wave with the big time lag between first and last wave starts.

Plumbthedepths · 29-10-2019 6:30pm

Glencarraig wrote: »

GFA entries for London are only available to "UK residents". New York uses a qualifying system from NYRR approved races and overseas GFA's can enter a lottery. The GFA cutoffs vary widely from major to major. I qualified for Boston with 3.24.30 which gave me a 35 minute cushion but I scraped into Berlin by only 30 seconds.

Become a Pacer free entry same medal t shirt as the other runners even if they do it 1 hour faster than you. ;-)

ooter · 29-10-2019 7:17pm

Glencarraig wrote: »

GFA entries for London are only available to "UK residents"

yeah but you don't have to be a member of a club, should be the same for Dublin.

RacoonQueen · 29-10-2019 7:21pm

ooter wrote: »

yeah but you don't have to be a member of a club, should be the same for Dublin.

They have a separate championship entry for club runners in London and another entry system for club runners. Fact is, this is the national marathon champs, so club runners, no matter what their ability should be guaranteed entry, if this isn't the case then AI need to move the championship to an alternate race.

https://www.virginmoneylondonmarathon.com/en-gb/how-to-enter/british-athletics-club-entry/

https://www.virginmoneylondonmarathon.com/en-gb/how-to-enter/championship-entry/

Alicano · 29-10-2019 7:29pm

ted1 wrote: »

Barcelona 61.50
Lisbon 55
Copenhagen 93
Paris 90
Berlin 125
Riga 37
Milan 55

Frankfurt €75
Seville €65.. €26 for residents of Seville!! Imagine a discount for Dubs

:D
93 is very steep IMO. Especially for what you get.

ooter · 29-10-2019 7:31pm

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Fact is, this is the national marathon champs, so club runners, no matter what their ability should be guaranteed entry]

I agree but if you are irish and not in a club and have a GFA time you should be guaranteed entry for dublin

skyblue46 · 29-10-2019 7:33pm

As has been said there is a bit of an information vacuum surrounding the AI entries and GFA. It's probably fair to say that some medal winners in team national championships might not have achieved GFA times. I wonder if you do not meet the GFA standards so enter the lottery (assuming we know GFA times by Friday) and are a lucky winner will you then be allowed count in the Nationals or must you enter through the AI tranche to be in the Chamionships?

Dublin Marathon moves to lottery entries!

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