Water charges for excessive usage

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I didn't put words in your mouth at all, you claimed further back to speak on behalf of middle Ireland I challenged you on it. You don't speak for me or the 600k households that didnt engage with IW. It's amusing and pathetic you wish to dismiss such a large number of people as part of the 'bullhorn brigade'.
As for conspiracy theories address your contempt towards former FG junior minister Fergus O' Dowd.
Your solution to the problem is 100's of millions of euros spent on meters, crazy.
I offered a suggestion further back, yet it is something FG has no interest in doing as they also have no interest in giving the public a referendum on ownership of the resource and network.

You’re at it again... I don’t claim to speak on behalf of Middle Ireland.


My solution to the problem is not hundreds of millions spent on meters

I made that perfectly clear

Stop it dude.

ain't got the foggiest what has been said before.
But, as generally it is said, that it is the infrastructure that needs to be upgraded; that just has to be paid for. Yet, at present if there is a domestic water problem, it takes two hours on the 'phone just to make yourself understood, and that is before anything is fixed.
Irish Water need to do major courses in; the dissemination to absolutely everyone on this island of the actual overall COST of all pipes, pumps, that needs to be upgraded or replaced.
and also to give (even to send by post) a yearly account of the MINUTAE of ALL COSTS associated in the work/works/running of Irish Water.
Then people would pay.
This niggly fixation on just litres could then be abandoned.
And a set yearly charge then agreed.

NovemberWren wrote: »

ain't got the foggiest what has been said before.
But, as generally it is said, that it is the infrastructure that needs to be upgraded; that just has to be paid for. Yet, at present if there is a domestic water problem, it takes two hours on the 'phone just to make yourself understood, and that is before anything is fixed.
Irish Water need to do major courses in; the dissemination to absolutely everyone on this island of the actual overall COST of all pipes, pumps, that needs to be upgraded or replaced.
and also to give (even to send by post) a yearly account of the MINUTAE of ALL COSTS associated in the work/works/running of Irish Water.
Then people would pay.
This niggly fixation on just litres could then be abandoned.
And a set yearly charge then agreed.

The set up of Irish Water and the cost of metering before it was stopped was 1 Billion Euro.That was with half the domestic households in the country metered. To meter the remaining half would have cost near as makes no difference the same again. And that still left vast numbers of apartments unmetered. To meter those apartments would have cost at least as much again.


That was the plan.

To spend at least 3 Billion Euro on metering every household and apartment. Not a red cent of that was to improve the infrastructure.
Had they spent that money on the infrastructure then perhaps they may have got away with a set yearly charge, but even that is doubtful. If these threads are any indicator of those that were/are such avid backers of Irish Water appear to do so because it was a pay for what you used.


Either way FG had one shot at getting it right, but they made such a complete and utter f**k up of it from day one (and it even went downhill on a daily basis from there), that the killed any hope of it being revisited for any charges for at least a generation.

the Commission of Regulation (is that ComReg), seem facetious and doing probably just exactly what this Gov**nment tell them to do; when, really, the Commission should say, 'No' 'that E100m that you have been using on yourselves, is now to be spent on hiring 1,000 new staff', over the next five years.
And those staff should be locally accessible, and not just by 'phone.
(btw, interesting little article in Independent today, p.21 (ian Begley); some outfit called KN Circet are setting up shop to train people for the 'ESB's smart metering project'.
Ya could not make this up.
In regard to the billions spent by IW putting the transmitters in; there should of course be no more, but, moreover, any future billions, should be spent on taking up the transmitters.

Benedict wrote: »

The average family would put more planning preparation into a day at the beach than IW appear to have done for the national roll-out of water meters. I mean did it not occur to them that some homes might not accept the meters? And did nobody around the table say "Eh! Sorry now lads but eh! Will we be able to put meters in apartments or what?"

There was a fortune in tax-payers money on the table - where was the planning?

And they're still at it! Is nobody in there saying "Eh, sorry lads, but, eh, what happens if people refuse to pay excessive charges on the basis that it's discriminatory?"

Maybe the answer given is "Not a bother Joe, just say nothin' about it, sure we'll cross that bridge when we come it. Put on the kettle there"

If we have learned anything about this Irish Water God awful mess is that the people running it and their political masters are very slow to learn when it comes to squandering tax revenue.

It will more likely be "Joe, send a blank cheque to the experts" than "Joe put on the kettle" when you consider Ervia chief executive Michael McNicholas statement during an Oireachtas water committee meeting 21 months ago.


Apparently we didn`t waste 73 Million on consultants when establishing this quango "They were not consultants, they were international experts".
Glad Michael finally cleared that up. I`m sure that brought a lot of comfort to people knowing 73 Million was not wasted on mere consultants but rather international experts.


Is it any wonder with a relatively recent statements like that from the bold Michael that Irish Water will never be seen by the vast majority as anything other than a byword for corruption and waste.

Benedict wrote: »

At the outset, all IW customers were told they'd have to pay a yearly amount. That plan collapsed and those who paid had to be repaid. Then there were no fees. Then there we were told that there would be no fees - unless you used an excessive amount of water in which case a fine would be imposed.

So there are intelligent qualified people sitting around a table saying "This is great, we'll have an income stream and over time we can lower the quota threshold and increase the fines. Yeah! Boil the frogs slowly so they won't jump from the pot. And for goodness sake nobody mention that nearly half the frogs won't be boiled. Great! Now someone put the kettle on."

So who's going to be first to have the courage to say, forget the tea, we'll have to draw up another plan 'cos this one is the Titanic"

now, that would be so interesting - to see a map of the areas that IW put in the meters (transmitters); an map and indicating the economic demographics, i.e. probably they were put into the poorer areas; and Foxrock, Booterstown, Blackrock, none, or miniscule amount of meters.
This Gov**nment are mad; the ESB Networks are putting in 250k smart (transmitters) meters this Autumn 2019, and then putting in a further 500k meters per year the next four years, 2020-2023. All this to 'conserve the grid' i.e. do not put on your heaters when it is freezing, better to put them on when it is not freezing.
the cost the government have committed to give to ESB Networks is .... E1.2billion, over five years.
deja-vu?

Benedict wrote: »

I have a feeling that everything has now been done on this thread to establish the facts.

We know that at least 45% of IW customers do not have meters - and that percentage is growing because new builds don't have meters.
We also know that according to the evidence available to us, those with no meters will never (and cannot ever) be subject to quotas or fines while those with meters will be subject to both.

We know that the current plan to only hammer metered homes with quotas and the threat of fines is farcical and cannot survive.

So, best thing to do now is shred the old plan and draw up a plan which can work.

Correct...Middle Ireland will not be stiffed again.

This one won’t run, this is not going to be acceptable.

Benedict wrote: »

I have a feeling that everything has now been done on this thread to establish the facts.

We know that at least 45% of IW customers do not have meters - and that percentage is growing because new builds don't have meters.
We also know that according to the evidence available to us, those with no meters will never (and cannot ever) be subject to quotas or fines while those with meters will be subject to both.

We know that the current plan to only hammer metered homes with quotas and the threat of fines is farcical and cannot survive.

So, best thing to do now is shred the old plan and draw up a plan which can work.

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Continue as is with funding through taxation. Charge business a comercial rate. Fund the repairs and maintenance.
When they were looking for things to spend money on like a clock in the liffey, the millennium spike and funding the horse racing and greyhound industries, they let the pipes rot. Instead of giving the tax payer a hard time we should be calling out government(s) for not doing their job, especially when they try put it on us.

Why are people on here complaining about excess water charges. After all, if you reduce your usage, you won't be charged.

Ultimately, that points to the link between charging and consumption, the main reason for the introduction of charging in the first place.