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Buying house: Changing from oil to gas

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  • 30-09-2019 9:08pm
    #1
    worlds goodest teecher
    Registered Users Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭


    In the process of buying a 20yr old house with a Stanley range oil boiler in it. Want to change to gas, and if we can afford it I would like to replace the open fire with a gas fire, I am aware of the Seai grants for the boiler.

    Are any of the LPG providers have any special offers for gas fires, boilers, etc?

    I know Flogas are offering 1200lts of gas free.


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    #2
    worlds goodest teecher
    Registered Users Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭worlds goodest teecher


    worlds goodest teecher wrote: »
    In the process of buying a 20yr old house with a Stanley range oil boiler in it. Want to change to gas, and if we can afford it I would like to replace the open fire with a gas fire, I am aware of the Seai grants for the boiler.

    Are any of the LPG providers have any special offers for gas fires, boilers, etc?

    I know Flogas are offering 1200lts of gas free.

    Got the following quote for installing a gas boiler. Seems really excessive to me but maybe I am wrong. I think a 24kW boiler would be sufficient as I am planning to pump the cavity wall and insulate the ceiling. The house is a 3 bed bungalow.

    Supply and Installation of New outdoor 30kw Gas Boiler, 15m of external gas pipework, gas regulator, adaptors, isolating valves, Gas Boiler Flue and re- directing hot flow and return pipework to new boiler position.
    €5,289.10 incl vat

    It is only 7/8m to where we discussed the gas tank going. Would indoor boiler, reducing to 24kW boiler or relocating the tank location possibly reduce the price?

    I appreciate the difficulty in gauging what I am asking but I am just trying to find out if I am being taken for a ride?


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    #3
    K.Flyer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,565 ✭✭✭K.Flyer


    L.P.G. is one of the dearest ways of heating your home compared to oil.
    A regular poster JohnG has posted up some facts and figures outlining it, plus you are tied into a single supplier.
    Would you not consider a new oil boiler, at least you can shop around for oil prices.


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    #4
    worlds goodest teecher
    Registered Users Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭worlds goodest teecher


    K.Flyer wrote: »
    L.P.G. is one of the dearest ways of heating your home compared to oil.
    A regular poster JohnG has posted up some facts and figures outlining it, plus you are tied into a single supplier.
    Would you not consider a new oil boiler, at least you can shop around for oil prices.
    What sort of efficiency levels are available in new oil boiler compared to a 20yr old Stanley Brandon range boiler that has been in a holiday home?


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    #5
    K.Flyer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,565 ✭✭✭K.Flyer


    worlds goodest teecher wrote: »
    What sort of efficiency levels are available in new oil boiler compared to a 20yr old Stanley Brandon range boiler that has been in a holiday home?

    New Grant Vortex oil boiler will run from 90.7% - 93.3% gross. A Worcester Bosch LPG gas boiler will be approx 91%. Both I imagine would be at least 15% more efficient than what you have now.


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    #6
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    K.Flyer wrote: »
    New Grant Vortex oil boiler will run from 90.7% - 93.3% gross. A Worcester Bosch LPG gas boiler will be approx 91%. Both I imagine would be at least 15% more efficient than what you have now.

    You can’t go on fuel usage costs alone there is a massive difference between oil and gas in respect of controls, some modern gas boilers are directly connected to weather satellites that enable the boiler to adjust fuel usage based on the weather of the hour/minute.

    I would lean towards oil myself due to simplicity but the more precise fuel usage added to the benefits of a cheap to run gas tumble dryers would make a good argument to use gas.


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    #7
    headtheball14
    Registered Users Posts: 222 ✭✭headtheball14


    The grants for gas and oil boilers are gone, I wouldn’t move to lpg at all. Can’t see the point of it. I know people who did and got rid of it since for a number of reasons. An expensive mistake. Possibly an argument if you had mains gas but not for lpg.
    Choice is a new boiler or look at air to water


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    #8
    K.Flyer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,565 ✭✭✭K.Flyer


    gary71 wrote: »
    You can’t go on fuel usage costs alone there is a massive difference between oil and gas in respect of controls, some modern gas boilers are directly connected to weather satellites that enable the boiler to adjust fuel usage based on the weather of the hour/minute.

    I would lean towards oil myself due to simplicity but the more precise fuel usage added to the benefits of a cheap to run gas tumble dryers would make a good argument to use gas.

    Even at the cost of LPG?

    O.P. was only asking for efficiency levels compared to their old range.
    At the end of the day efficiency and controls are only part of the package, home insulation is a key factor in keeping running costs to a minimum.


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    #9
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    headtheball14 wrote: »
    The grants for gas and oil boilers are gone, I wouldn’t move to lpg at all. Can’t see the point of it. I know people who did and got rid of it since for a number of reasons. An expensive mistake. Possibly an argument if you had mains gas but not for lpg.
    Choice is a new boiler or look at air to water

    Air to water requires higher levels of insulation due to the usually lower radiator temperatures, that in itself can be costly, it maybe more cost effective to upgrade your heating and hot water controls if practical, have a new oil boiler fitted which should include a heating system water power flush that will freshen up your radiators internally.


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    #10
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    K.Flyer wrote: »
    Even at the cost of LPG?

    O.P. was only asking for efficiency levels compared to their old range.
    At the end of the day effecting and controls are only part of the package, home insulation is a key factor in keeping running costs to a minimum.

    Forgive me if my post sounded grumpy :eek:

    I find at times the oil vs LPG argument doesn’t always fully take in to account the difference between the two heat sources, as you know oil has one flame that does not change whereas gas can have a weather compensated modulating flame that in the right circumstances with the correct controls can make a viable option if you include a cheeky little tumble dryer.


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    #11
    worlds goodest teecher
    Registered Users Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭worlds goodest teecher


    K.Flyer wrote: »
    Even at the cost of LPG?

    O.P. was only asking for efficiency levels compared to their old range.
    At the end of the day efficiency and controls are only part of the package, home insulation is a key factor in keeping running costs to a minimum.
    The first thing that I am going to do is fill the cavity with bead insulation and 200mm insulation to the attic.


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    #12
    worlds goodest teecher
    Registered Users Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭worlds goodest teecher


    I have also priced installing a 2kw 7 panel solar package (no battery). Might pursue this and insulation in lieu of changing the boiler.


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    #13
    ednwireland
    Registered Users Posts: 14,286 ✭✭✭✭ednwireland


    how olds the house ? we had a 70's bungalow cavity wall pumped and it caused no end of problems because of a concrete ring beam round the top of the walls causing a cold bridge, condensation runing down the walls. meant we had to have internal walls dry lined.

    sorry - back to oil vs LPG

    My weather

    https://www.ecowitt.net/home/share?authorize=96CT1F



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    #14
    worlds goodest teecher
    Registered Users Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭worlds goodest teecher


    ednwireland wrote: »
    how olds the house ? we had a 70's bungalow cavity wall pumped and it caused no end of problems because of a concrete ring beam round the top of the walls causing a cold bridge, condensation runing down the walls. meant we had to have internal walls dry lined.

    sorry - back to oil vs LPG

    Approx 25 years old


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    #15
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    OP have a look at mechanical heat recovery ventilation it’s the one thing I really wished I done when I built my house, it can give you controllable fresh air which is really handy if you have flatulent big dogs as I do, it’s a great way of taking the heat from the hotter rooms and then pushing it out to the colder giving a more even whole house temperature.


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    #16
    worlds goodest teecher
    Registered Users Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭worlds goodest teecher


    gary71 wrote: »
    OP have a look at mechanical heat recovery ventilation it’s the one thing I really wished I done when I built my house, it can give you controllable fresh air which is really handy if you have flatulent big dogs as I do, it’s a great way of taking the heat from the hotter rooms and then pushing it out to the colder giving a more even whole house temperature.
    Are we getting into big money?

    I am am more or less trying to improve home heating on a shoestring budget without generating my emissions. House is on a little peninsula jutting out into the Atlantic Ocean.


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    #17
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    worlds goodest teecher wrote: »
    Are we getting into big money?

    I am am more or less trying to improve home heating on a shoestring budget without generating my emissions. House is on a little peninsula jutting out into the Atlantic Ocean.

    Not really, you can buy diy kits for less than €1000

    If your really clever you can put a wet heat exchanger in to the design with heat from boiler allowing you to pre heat the incoming fresh air.


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    #18
    worlds goodest teecher
    Registered Users Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭worlds goodest teecher


    gary71 wrote: »
    Not really, you can buy diy kits for less than €1000

    If your really clever you can put a wet heat exchanger in to the design with heat from boiler allowing you to pre heat the incoming fresh air.

    My head stopped being clever after we had our second kid I’m afraid. Need easy.


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    #19
    headtheball14
    Registered Users Posts: 222 ✭✭headtheball14


    Mechanical ventilation is only really recommended in new builds or complete renovations. Attic insulation is a no brainer . In your case without doing much more work I would just replace the oil pump . The improvement in efficiency should make it worthwhile in any case. And where I’ve seen it done it does heat the house up a lot better. The only thing is getting oil delivered and possibly stolen.
    If you are in an exposed position I don’t think cavity bead insulation is recommended at all I know I’ve been put off of it.


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    #20
    mycro2013
    Registered Users Posts: 350 ✭✭mycro2013


    Hold on to your original boiler for the moment and upgrade the insulation of the house.


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    #21
    worlds goodest teecher
    Registered Users Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭worlds goodest teecher


    headtheball14 wrote: »
    If you are in an exposed position I don’t think cavity bead insulation is recommended at all I know I’ve been put off of it.

    I have discussed this issue on a different thread and the advice I was given was if the outer leaf was brick you shouldn’t use bead but it’s okay with rendered blockwork. Will obviously check with insulation contractor first.

    In terms of the boiler, am I crazy selling a 20 yr old Stanley boiler that was in a holiday home, and replacing with a more efficient boiler? What would it cost approx to replace with a new oil boiler with +90% efficiency?


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    #22
    Dtp1979
    Registered Users Posts: 12,726 ✭✭✭✭Dtp1979


    worlds goodest teecher wrote: »
    Approx 25 years old

    How many radiators do u have?


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    #23
    mycro2013
    Registered Users Posts: 350 ✭✭mycro2013


    To get the most out of the new boiler the house has to be adequately insulated. Any gains in the efficiency of the boiler will be lost through heat loss.


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    #24
    worlds goodest teecher
    Registered Users Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭worlds goodest teecher


    Dtp1979 wrote: »
    How many radiators do u have?

    We are in the process of buying this house so sizes are appropriate:
    4no 2ft rads
    3no 4ft rads
    2no 6ft rads
    1no 8ft rad approx 12” tall under bay window

    The 8ft rad and one 2ft rad are in the sitting room (approx 22sq.m). We need to do something with the open fire as the fire back is cracked. That is why I looking to put in a gas boiler, so as to put in a gas fire. A multi fuel stove will cost us about €2200 including flue liner. I am also going to replace the 2ft rad in this room with a vertical rad.


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    #25
    worlds goodest teecher
    Registered Users Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭worlds goodest teecher


    mycro2013 wrote: »
    To get the most out of the new boiler the house has to be adequately insulated. Any gains in the efficiency of the boiler will be lost through heat loss.

    Insulation is priority #1


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    #26
    Dtp1979
    Registered Users Posts: 12,726 ✭✭✭✭Dtp1979


    10 radiators
    I’d be amazed if you needed anything over 18kw.
    30kw is insanity


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    #27
    worlds goodest teecher
    Registered Users Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭worlds goodest teecher


    Dtp1979 wrote: »
    10 radiators
    I’d be amazed if you needed anything over 18kw.
    30kw is insanity

    He told me an external gas boiler would cost the same as an internal gas boiler to install, is that generally the case?


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    #28
    Dtp1979
    Registered Users Posts: 12,726 ✭✭✭✭Dtp1979


    worlds goodest teecher wrote: »
    He told me an external gas boiler would cost the same as an internal gas boiler to install, is that generally the case?

    I’ve never seen an external gas boiler so can’t comment.


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    #29
    worlds goodest teecher
    Registered Users Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭worlds goodest teecher


    Dtp1979 wrote: »
    I’ve never seen an external gas boiler so can’t comment.

    New outdoor 30kw Gas Boiler, 15m of external gas pipework, gas regulator, adaptors, isolating valves, Gas Boiler Flue and re- directing hot flow and return pipework to new boiler position.

    €5300 incl 13.5% vat


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    #30
    K.Flyer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,565 ✭✭✭K.Flyer


    worlds goodest teecher wrote: »
    New outdoor 30kw Gas Boiler, 15m of external gas pipework, gas regulator, adaptors, isolating valves, Gas Boiler Flue and re- directing hot flow and return pipework to new boiler position.

    €5300 incl 13.5% vat

    I presume that includes the Gas tank installation?


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    #31
    worlds goodest teecher
    Registered Users Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭worlds goodest teecher


    K.Flyer wrote: »
    I presume that includes the Gas tank installation?

    No, Flogas offered tank and 1200lt of gas and to install tank for around €250 incl hard standing.


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