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Chapter 2 - Finding Nemo
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04-09-2017 11:17am#1
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Three things.
1. Those are some great shorter times, though with a good dropoff at HM. Endurance looks like a weakness that you can work on (depending on your goals).
2. Follow the advice there and you'll be flying: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=62738816 - joining a club will also help.
3. Per your post on jake's log: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=104590958&postcount=491 ...yes, marathon training could well slow you down at shorter distances, depending on how well trained you are. You might well just speed up all over the shop, only one way to find out
- also, 36 is not old. Krusty Clown's log started when he was around that age, he was slower than you and he finished his most recent marathon in 2:30:01. 0 -
Three things.
1. Those are some great shorter times, though with a good dropoff at HM. Endurance looks like a weakness that you can work on (depending on your goals).
2. Follow the advice there and you'll be flying: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=62738816 - joining a club will also help.
3. Per your post on jake's log: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=104590958&postcount=491 ...yes, marathon training could well slow you down at shorter distances, depending on how well trained you are. You might well just speed up all over the shop, only one way to find out - also, 36 is not old. Krusty Clown's log started when he was around that age, he was slower than you and he finished his most recent marathon in 2:30:01.
Hey Singer,
Thanks for taking the time out to read and provide feedback.
First off, those Tergat posts are pretty epic and answer a lot of questions I had. I'll have to re-read a bunch of times to fully digest it all. Thanks for linking. Invaluable advice.
In relation to the drop-off in HM - it's a hard one to judge. I feel like I've come on a lot since then and that was a particularly hilly excruciatingly tough course through the Burren. I feel like if I was to run a HM now, my time would be much better.
Endurance has been an issue for me though. In my two 10k fast times this year I have really had to dig deep from 6k onwards. I spoke to a friend of mine who is sub-elite and he recommended I lengthen my interval training which I have tried to do.
I guess at the moment I feel like I'm at a bit of a cross-roads. Need to decide whether to pursue 5k/10k racing or bite the bullet and jump up to the half/full although it sounds like it might not be a bad idea to spend the next 9 months on 5k/10k specific training with maybe a view to running DCM next year.0 -
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Best of luck with training SB, The log is basically me in 6 months time so following it with interest
FWIW the one thing I would say is that your sessions look great on paper don't under estimate the affects of sleep deprivation on recovery and adapt your training to take that into account. You look like you are not afraid of hammering the sessions splits wise but sometimes less is more in terms of intensity and rep duration (That Mona session is a great one I use it a good bit actually but its 20 min solid work on its own without the tempo)0 -
Testosterscone wrote: »Best of luck with training SB, The log is basically me in 6 months time so following it with interest
FWIW the one thing I would say is that your sessions look great on paper don't under estimate the affects of sleep deprivation on recovery and adapt your training to take that into account. You look like you are not afraid of hammering the sessions splits wise but sometimes less is more in terms of intensity and rep duration (That Mona session is a great one I use it a good bit actually but its 20 min solid work on its own without the tempo)
I think I learned that the hard way today. As soon as I started running today I could feel the effects from last weeks efforts. I'm definitely noticing the effects of sleep deprivation and it's tough to get my head around. I'm used to recovering much quicker.
The Mona session + tempo was something I took from McMillian. To be honest I felt "good" during it. It's probably the cumulative effects of the entire week I'm feeling now.
The problem I have at the moment is everything I'm doing is geared towards maintenance until January when I plan on kicking off a proper plan. So I'm kinda operating on a week by week basis. And probably a bit overenthusiastic considering my circumstances. If I'm completely honest with myself, is it wise to be doing a Mona Fartlek, a 5 x 1M 10k session and a 13M progression run within the first week back? Probably not!
I'll be keeping a close eye on my recovery this week. Last thing I want is to overtrain and end up injured. I'll be taking this line of advice very seriously: "don't under estimate the affects of sleep deprivation on recovery and adapt your training to take that into account".0 -
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Another decent week behind me.
Monday - 6.6mile General Aerobic @ 7.50/mile. Pace Splits 7.53, 7.46, 7.56, 7.44, 7.54, 7.50, 7.41
Tuesday - 6x3mins with 75s recovery between each. Warmup and Cooldown miles either side.
Plan was to run at 5k "effort".
Pace splits 5.51, 5.54, 5.49, 5.50, 5.46, 5.39
Was wrecked for the last one. To be honest it was more than 5k effort by then.
Wednesday - 5.5M Recovery at 8.12 pace. Legs were tired.
Thursday - Bit of a mixed bag that was neither here nor there. 6M including 4 x 20s steep hill sprints. The miles paces either side of the hills were 7.23, 7.04, 6.54, 6.33. One of those runs where I just did what the body felt like with no particular target in mind. I think these are called "junk miles"
Friday - Gym with some light stretching after 20min on the cross trainer to warmup.
Saturday - 12M with pretty even splits around 7.40/mile. Total time 1.31.42. Really enjoyed that run. It was raining heavily and was just one of those days where I was smiling away to myself while I ran.
Sunday rest.
Total mileage for the week - 37.3 miles.0 -
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Week Two under new management........
Monday plan was 6M easy at 7.55 to 8.30 pace.
Actual: 6M at 8.03 pace.
Nice easy run. Nothing major to report. The legs are feeling fresher these days unlike before when I was probably overloading a bit. So yeah, this was a nice easy run.
Tues plan was 7x800m @ 6min/mile pace with reducing recoveries of 90s/90s/75s/75s/60s/60s
I really like the look of these sessions. There's something about the pain of the sessions that I enjoy. A bit sadistic I guess!
2M warmup. Pace splits : 6.01/5.58/5.57/5.55/6.0/5.57/5.53. 1M(ish) CD. Loved the session. Felt like a step up from the previous week but still controlled and not all out. The drop in recovery time made the session harder as it went along but in a good way. Felt great after...Nothing like the feeling of a well executed session total of 7.4 miles.
Wednesday (5M) and Thursday (7M) were both easy runs as prescribed. Legs didn't feel as tired post session as the previous weeks which I guess is a good sign - or maybe just a sign of better sleep
Friday plan was 2M WU + 15min/10min/10min at 7/6.50/6.40 pace + CD so a nice little progression run. Had to head out in the early morning as I was on baby minding duty for the day. It was baltic. But I enjoy running in the cold. Took a bit of a stupid route at peak school/work traffic so there was a lot of jumping on and off the footpaths. The run was executed pretty well. Looking at my Garmin I think I did the first 15mins in or around 7min pace, next 10mins was at closer to 6.45 and last 10 was at around 6.35 so close enough I guess. Took a while to warm into it. The 6.35min block actually felt a little easier than the 7min as I had warmed up nicely by then. All in all another good session.
Saturday plan 12M easy. Did 12M at 8.01. Nothing unusal to report here either. Another nice fresh morning. Legs felt good after the week. Definitely noticing a difference since coach came on board!
Total 45.4 miles for the week.
Moving along nicely and nice to have a plan in place with some very helpful guidance. I'm no longer second guessing everything. So the plan is to target a 10k PB in Ennis in March. This is the number one goal race. I have signed up to the Run Clare series but the other races will be approached in whatever way helps me for the Ennis 10k. If I'm told to walk them backwards that's what I'll do! So the plan is Ennis 10k and then move onto the Limerick Half in May where I would hope for a sub 1.30 but like I said, the priority goal race is Ennis in March.
Looking forward to doing some races again. Feels like it's been ages (last race was in August). Definitely missing the race buzz.0 -
Swashbuckler wrote: »Week Two under new management........
Monday plan was 6M easy at 7.55 to 8.30 pace.
Actual: 6M at 8.03 pace.
Nice easy run. Nothing major to report. The legs are feeling fresher these days unlike before when I was probably overloading a bit. So yeah, this was a nice easy run.
Tues plan was 7x800m @ 6min/mile pace with reducing recoveries of 90s/90s/75s/75s/60s/60s
I really like the look of these sessions. There's something about the pain of the sessions that I enjoy. A bit sadistic I guess!
2M warmup. Pace splits : 6.01/5.58/5.57/5.55/6.0/5.57/5.53. 1M(ish) CD. Loved the session. Felt like a step up from the previous week but still controlled and not all out. The drop in recovery time made the session harder as it went along but in a good way. Felt great after...Nothing like the feeling of a well executed session total of 7.4 miles.
Wednesday (5M) and Thursday (7M) were both easy runs as prescribed. Legs didn't feel as tired post session as the previous weeks which I guess is a good sign - or maybe just a sign of better sleep
Friday plan was 2M WU + 15min/10min/10min at 7/6.50/6.40 pace + CD so a nice little progression run. Had to head out in the early morning as I was on baby minding duty for the day. It was baltic. But I enjoy running in the cold. Took a bit of a stupid route at peak school/work traffic so there was a lot of jumping on and off the footpaths. The run was executed pretty well. Looking at my Garmin I think I did the first 15mins in or around 7min pace, next 10mins was at closer to 6.45 and last 10 was at around 6.35 so close enough I guess. Took a while to warm into it. The 6.35min block actually felt a little easier than the 7min as I had warmed up nicely by then. All in all another good session.
Saturday plan 12M easy. Did 12M at 8.01. Nothing unusal to report here either. Another nice fresh morning. Legs felt good after the week. Definitely noticing a difference since coach came on board!
Total 45.4 miles for the week.
Moving along nicely and nice to have a plan in place with some very helpful guidance. I'm no longer second guessing everything. So the plan is to target a 10k PB in Ennis in March. This is the number one goal race. I have signed up to the Run Clare series but the other races will be approached in whatever way helps me for the Ennis 10k. If I'm told to walk them backwards that's what I'll do! So the plan is Ennis 10k and then move onto the Limerick Half in May where I would hope for a sub 1.30 but like I said, the priority goal race is Ennis in March.
Looking forward to doing some races again. Feels like it's been ages (last race was in August). Definitely missing the race buzz.
I'd say come end March you'd be disappointed with a sub 1.30 half!
Some of those sessions look familiar
TbL0 -
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These week was the first time I've physically felt a real jump in how I've felt during training. Had a chat with coach about it and he reckoned it's normal enough to feel a boost after 5-6 weeks. It goes to show that the training I was doing was fine but not optimised by any stretch of the imagination. The few mistakes I would point to were (just putting this here for anyone that ever reads this back and might help them avoid making the same mistakes);
1. Top of the list is running the sessions too hard every week. I think I rarely did a session near 10k pace. It was usually 5k pace or faster.
2. No progression to the sessions. most were chosen randomly on any given week with a tendency to do longer sessions like 1k or 1 mile intervals.
3. Every week had a very hard session followed by a really hard tempo run in the same week. So most weeks I was attempting 6min pace in a session on Monday and then running a tempo at 6.15 on Thursday. The legs were fairly fatigued.
4. Easy runs were too fast - usually at 7.30min pace.
5. Same for the long runs.
6. Lack of progression in the long runs. I started doing 16 and 18 miles out of nowhere really.
The difference in freshness and progress has been fairly surprising since Testosterscone started helping me out. Long may it continue.
Anyways, my week last week;
Monday - Easy 6M at 8min/mile. The usual easy run on a Monday to ease into the week. Nothing unusual to report here apart from the fact this was the run that got me thinking about how well the training was working. I was straining at the leash to go faster. Felt great, legs felt fresh, wanted to race! But didn't....
Tuesday - 6 x 1k intervals. Target 5.55-6.00/mile with 90s recovery.
On paper I thought this looked like a tough session. I was surprised at how I felt. The whole thing felt very controlled. Not easy by any stretch of the imagination but not a struggle. Splits 6.05, 6.00, 5.54, 5.54, 5.55, 5.48. Really happy with how it went.
Wednesday - Easy 7M at 8:05/mile. Needed to do this one in the morning as it was Christmas dinner in the canteen at work and I wasn't missing that! Headed out in the lashing rain (it eased) at 7:45am. Pitch black, cold and wet. One of those mornings where you begin to question your sanity but oddly that is one run I will look back on in the Summer when I'm hopefully chasing PB's in the sun. That will be one run I will go to when I have to dig deep. No point spending hours out running in the pi**ing rain in Winter if you don't push yourself to your limits in the Summer
Thursday - Easy 7M at 8:02/mile. Nothing major to report. Another wet day. Ran with my work buddy. Enjoyable run. Always enjoyable to run with a partner on these easy runs.
Friday - Recovery 4M at 8:02/mile - Normally I'd be doing a session on Friday but I had my work xmas night out the night before so coach was enough enough to reshuffle my week. Had a decent few pints at the party and was surprised how good I felt on these 4 miles. A further sign of improvements maybe?
Saturday - So as I said, coach reshuffled the week and put this belter of a run on me for Saturday -
30min Easy+(20/15/10min@7/6.50/6.40) +30min Easy
Was a little anxious going into this. Knew the first 30 would be fine. Was pretty sure the 7 and 6:50 would be ok but questioned how id feel for the 6:40 and final 30mins. The answer is surprisingly good. Took off on a nice loop of Limerick city. I figured i'd need 14-15 miles foe this run so did a similar route to one I did earlier in the year. Got out nice and early again at 11am after the missus getting a decent lie in while I looked after the little one. First 30mins went by handy enough. Nice easy running. Kicked in to the tempo part. 7min pace took a minute or two to come to me. Funny, this was my pace for years - every day running 7min pace and now I actually struggle a bit to settle into it. Eased into the 6.50 section nicely and the 6.40 was fine too. I was monitoring my pace all the way and they were fairly bang on. The last 30 was when I thought my legs would really struggle but they didn't. I hit the 12 mile mark and wondered why last weeks 12mile easy run actually felt worse. Finished up at 14.2 miles feeling better than last weeks 12 miler. So again, maybe another sign of improvement.
Total mileage for the week: 44.4 miles.
This week is back to normal in terms of the format. Next week is a slight down week and then racing on Jan 1st. Can't wait!0 -
Swashbuckler wrote: »These week was the first time I've physically felt a real jump in how I've felt during training. Had a chat with coach about it and he reckoned it's normal enough to feel a boost after 5-6 weeks. It goes to show that the training I was doing was fine but not optimised by any stretch of the imagination. The few mistakes I would point to were (just putting this here for anyone that ever reads this back and might help them avoid making the same mistakes);
1. Top of the list is running the sessions too hard every week. I think I rarely did a session near 10k pace. It was usually 5k pace or faster.
2. No progression to the sessions. most were chosen randomly on any given week with a tendency to do longer sessions like 1k or 1 mile intervals.
3. Every week had a very hard session followed by a really hard tempo run in the same week. So most weeks I was attempting 6min pace in a session on Monday and then running a tempo at 6.15 on Thursday. The legs were fairly fatigued.
4. Easy runs were too fast - usually at 7.30min pace.
5. Same for the long runs.
6. Lack of progression in the long runs. I started doing 16 and 18 miles out of nowhere really.
The difference in freshness and progress has been fairly surprising since Testosterscone started helping me out. Long may it continue.
Anyways, my week last week;
Monday - Easy 6M at 8min/mile. The usual easy run on a Monday to ease into the week. Nothing unusual to report here apart from the fact this was the run that got me thinking about how well the training was working. I was straining at the leash to go faster. Felt great, legs felt fresh, wanted to race! But didn't....
Tuesday - 6 x 1k intervals. Target 5.55-6.00/mile with 90s recovery.
On paper I thought this looked like a tough session. I was surprised at how I felt. The whole thing felt very controlled. Not easy by any stretch of the imagination but not a struggle. Splits 6.05, 6.00, 5.54, 5.54, 5.55, 5.48. Really happy with how it went.
Wednesday - Easy 7M at 8:05/mile. Needed to do this one in the morning as it was Christmas dinner in the canteen at work and I wasn't missing that! Headed out in the lashing rain (it eased) at 7:45am. Pitch black, cold and wet. One of those mornings where you begin to question your sanity but oddly that is one run I will look back on in the Summer when I'm hopefully chasing PB's in the sun. That will be one run I will go to when I have to dig deep. No point spending hours out running in the pi**ing rain in Winter if you don't push yourself to your limits in the Summer
Thursday - Easy 7M at 8:02/mile. Nothing major to report. Another wet day. Ran with my work buddy. Enjoyable run. Always enjoyable to run with a partner on these easy runs.
Friday - Recovery 4M at 8:02/mile - Normally I'd be doing a session on Friday but I had my work xmas night out the night before so coach was enough enough to reshuffle my week. Had a decent few pints at the party and was surprised how good I felt on these 4 miles. A further sign of improvements maybe?
Saturday - So as I said, coach reshuffled the week and put this belter of a run on me for Saturday -
30min Easy+(20/15/10min@7/6.50/6.40) +30min Easy
Was a little anxious going into this. Knew the first 30 would be fine. Was pretty sure the 7 and 6:50 would be ok but questioned how id feel for the 6:40 and final 30mins. The answer is surprisingly good. Took off on a nice loop of Limerick city. I figured i'd need 14-15 miles foe this run so did a similar route to one I did earlier in the year. Got out nice and early again at 11am after the missus getting a decent lie in while I looked after the little one. First 30mins went by handy enough. Nice easy running. Kicked in to the tempo part. 7min pace took a minute or two to come to me. Funny, this was my pace for years - every day running 7min pace and now I actually struggle a bit to settle into it. Eased into the 6.50 section nicely and the 6.40 was fine too. I was monitoring my pace all the way and they were fairly bang on. The last 30 was when I thought my legs would really struggle but they didn't. I hit the 12 mile mark and wondered why last weeks 12mile easy run actually felt worse. Finished up at 14.2 miles feeling better than last weeks 12 miler. So again, maybe another sign of improvement.
Total mileage for the week: 44.4 miles.
This week is back to normal in terms of the format. Next week is a slight down week and then racing on Jan 1st. Can't wait!
Very nice 5 x 1k session, I'd love to be within a hippos arse of those paces.
Keep it up
TbL0 -
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