Fighter jets for the Air Corps?

sparky42 · 08-09-2019 3:14pm

jonnybigwallet wrote: »

I see that the Brazilian Air force have taken delivery of their first KC 390 troop lifter. We could do with a couple of them!

As I've said before for once lets not buy hardware that's just in service and so far has only 1 confirmed export nation (from memory) and which has already had a drawn out development cycle.

jonnybigwallet · 08-09-2019 8:39pm

Tis a hell of a handsome beast ya have to admit!

jonnybigwallet · 05-10-2019 2:42pm

On the topic of fighter jets...that chech Aero L39 packs a lot of bang for the buck!
It's the machine that the Breitling display team use. Well proven and tested and new modernised version ( designated NG) is available and they are very reasonably priced. Some second hand units pop up from time to time.

Leonidas BL · 05-10-2019 2:45pm

jonnybigwallet wrote: »

On the topic of fighter jets...that chech Aero L39 packs a lot of bang for the buck!
It's the machine that the Breitling display team use. Well proven and tested and new modernised version ( designated NG) is available and they are very reasonably priced. Some second hand units pop up from time to time.

Not sure what they'd add over the PC-9???

sparky42 · 05-10-2019 7:46pm

Leonidas BL wrote: »

Not sure what they'd add over the PC-9???

Very little, and the AC has plenty of more important things to spend money on.

Psychlops · 05-10-2019 8:16pm

sparky42 wrote: »

Very little, and the AC has plenty of more important things to spend money on.

Like keeping Pilots first, that pool is growing shallower by the week.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/shortage-of-air-corps-pilots-and-technicians-approaches-critical-level-1.3854902

sparky42 · 05-10-2019 10:23pm

Psychlops wrote: »

Like keeping Pilots first, that pool is growing shallower by the week.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/shortage-of-air-corps-pilots-and-technicians-approaches-critical-level-1.3854902

Course it is, but nothing is going to be done until it's too late in regards to the Manpower crisis.

Leonidas BL · 06-10-2019 2:11pm

sparky42 wrote: »

Course it is, but nothing is going to be done until it's too late in regards to the Manpower crisis.

What can be done??

sparky42 · 06-10-2019 3:04pm

Leonidas BL wrote: »

What can be done??

Not treat the DF like lepers when it comes to spending... But we know that's not going to happen.

jonnybigwallet · 17-10-2019 4:25pm

Buy them some decent kit and they might stop leaving in droves imo. That Korean F 50 Golden Eagle looks a bit handy. 8 of them would be just the ticket!

Plumbthedepths · 17-10-2019 5:32pm

jonnybigwallet wrote: »

Buy them some decent kit and they might stop leaving in droves imo. That Korean F 50 Golden Eagle looks a bit handy. 8 of them would be just the ticket!

8 for 240 million out of a total budget of 639 million. As a suggestion won't 'fly' I'm afraid.

sparky42 · 17-10-2019 10:24pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

8 for 240 million out of a total budget of 639 million. As a suggestion won't 'fly' I'm afraid.

Also I'd question whether that would make the massive difference in numbers.

Heraldoffreeent · 17-10-2019 10:53pm

sparky42 wrote: »

Also I'd question whether that would make the massive difference in numbers.

Try sending 2 of them out from the Bal with no ground based Radar, and with external tanks and 4/6 A to A (unclean) on board and see what hope you have of coming within a hundred miles of a roaming Tu.And Bob just left the building......

On a kind of unrelated note, I see KAI have a new SAAB like promotional vid for the KAI K/I/ FX, looks good, but then don't they all?

sparky42 · 17-10-2019 10:59pm

Heraldoffreeent wrote: »

Try sending 2 of them out from the Bal with no ground based Radar, and with external tanks and 4/6 A to A (unclean) on board and see what hope you have of coming within a hundred miles of a roaming Tu.And Bob just left the building.....

Now now, lets not get hung up on details I mean you just posted that lovely video shouldn't we run out and buy a dozen at once...

Of course you're right there's a hell of a lot more than buying the fancy jet to consider either for AC operations or arresting manpower issues, but that can't compare to fancy videos it seems.

Heraldoffreeent · 17-10-2019 11:16pm

sparky42 wrote: »

Now now, lets not get hung up on details I mean you just posted that lovely video shouldn't we run out and buy a dozen at once...

Of course you're right there's a hell of a lot more than buying the fancy jet to consider either for AC operations or arresting manpower issues, but that can't compare to fancy videos it seems.

I had a look at the KF/X wiki, says 50 miller each, Lads soon be saying buy 20, lease over 20 years be only 50mill a yeat, what could possibly go wrong????

(I think the pricing is 10 years old though.)

Leonidas BL · 19-10-2019 6:21pm

Heraldoffreeent wrote: »

I had a look at the KF/X wiki, says 50 miller each, Lads soon be saying buy 20, lease over 20 years be only 50mill a yeat, what could possibly go wrong????

(I think the pricing is 10 years old though.)

Still think the Saab Gripen lease is the way to go.

jonnybigwallet · 21-11-2019 12:39pm

I just read in the paper that the Argentine Airforce is buying 10 of those KA 50 planes for 30 million US dollars a pop including training. 8 would be OK for the Air Corps. Cracking bit of kit that!

Leonidas BL · 21-11-2019 6:04pm

jonnybigwallet wrote: »

I just read in the paper that the Argentine Airforce is buying 10 of those KA 50 planes for 30 million US dollars a pop including training. 8 would be OK for the Air Corps. Cracking bit of kit that!

They'd be pretty cool alright. Still think the Saab is better though.

Psychlops · 24-11-2019 8:14pm

The way Kehoe is going it looks like he is trying to kill the Air Corps.

sparky42 · 25-11-2019 12:32pm

Psychlops wrote: »

The way Kehoe is going it looks like he is trying to kill the Air Corps.

That presumes the man has the attention span to actually carry something out, I think it's more likely that the DOD are the ones trying to run down the DF.

Lord Fairlord · 15-12-2019 8:31pm

Really, if one thinks about it (and I'm sure that something to this effect has been said a myriad of times before), a sovereign state ought really have planes capable of intercepting at least a hijacked commercial jet airliner.
There might be a negligible threat now but it's too late to start preparing for something when it goes wrong.

sparky42 · 15-12-2019 11:01pm

Lord Fairlord wrote: »

Really, if one thinks about it (and I'm sure that something to this effect has been said a myriad of times before), a sovereign state ought really have planes capable of intercepting at least a hijacked commercial jet airliner.
There might be a negligible threat now but it's too late to start preparing for something when it goes wrong.

But think of the "outrage" from everyone about spending X million on defence when there's Y problems, while ignoring the fact that said problems have so much more money put into them...

Yawlboy · 16-12-2019 1:09pm

sparky42 wrote: »

But think of the "outrage" from everyone about spending X million on defence when there's Y problems, while ignoring the fact that said problems have so much more money put into them...

Well they just spent upwards of €56,000,000 on two new C 295s and no one is complaining. https://www.janes.com/article/93201/ireland-orders-c295-mpas

Larbre34 · 16-12-2019 1:18pm

Yawlboy wrote: »

Well they just spent upwards of €56,000,000 on two new C 295s and no one is complaining. https://www.janes.com/article/93201/ireland-orders-c295-mpas

Thats cos nobody knows. It made the Examiner, about the only paper that covers defence properly, but who reads that outside the N40. I'm not saying they should complain, but there'll always be some of it.

Yawlboy · 16-12-2019 1:29pm

Larbre34 wrote: »

Thats cos nobody knows. It made the Examiner, about the only paper that covers defence properly, but who reads that outside the N40. I'm not saying they should complain, but there'll always be some of it.

Wow the actual cost is €221.6 Million for two unarmed maritime patrol aircraft!!!

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/air-corps-to-receive-two-new-planes-970329.html

sparky42 · 16-12-2019 1:49pm

Yawlboy wrote: »

Wow the actual cost is €221.6 Million for two unarmed maritime patrol aircraft!!!

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/air-corps-to-receive-two-new-planes-970329.html

No they haven't, the EU is paying some of it, though who knows the share, also it's not just for the planes themselves.

Moreover there's a huge difference politically and publicly to buying a 1 for 1 replacement for something that's been in service for 25 years and buying fighters.

Yawlboy · 16-12-2019 2:01pm

I was simply surprised with the total cost, that is a lot of money, I'd love to understand how it went from a list price of €28M to over €110M per aircraft.

In relation to Fighter Jets for the AC - I reckon the current personnel issues might be partially alleviated if the AC were to purchase some proper fighter aircraft. Recruitment and retention might increase if people got to see and fly proper military fast jets.

sparky42 · 16-12-2019 2:31pm

Yawlboy wrote: »

I was simply surprised with the total cost, that is a lot of money, I'd love to understand how it went from a list price of €28M to over €110M per aircraft.

In relation to Fighter Jets for the AC - I reckon the current personnel issues might be partially alleviated if the AC were to purchase some proper fighter aircraft. Recruitment and retention might increase if people got to see and fly proper military fast jets.

To be fair that 28 million is from 2013, think the real unit price is higher at this stage, also this isn't just the fly away price, it's spares, training, maintenance...

I really doubt having fighters would make any difference at the moment, much more likely they would sit around without enough people to use them, let alone the lack of radar systems, C&C etc.

Morpheus · 23-12-2019 2:34pm

Both aircraft have an incredibly good suite of sensors and kit (this is the extra cost, the airframe is cheap compared with fitted equipment)
Both aircraft will (most likely) come with other fit-outs including seating for troops, emergency medical transport, equipment transport modules etc - dont believe they come with the VIP seating (which is good).
Both are the current spec C295 maritime patrol model so are fitted for weapons, wings have pylons for missiles etc and are plumbed for such, this model is also fitted with ECM and flare launchers - i know some countries have had ASW kit fitted, dont believe ours will though.

https://www.airbus.com/defence/c295.html#technology

jonnybigwallet · 23-12-2019 7:09pm

Cool bit of kit! I notice the US air force is flogging off some completely refurbed F16's complete with training and spares and support package. Indonesia just bought a load of them and they have another buyer lined up for a couple of squadrons as well. Good opportunity for our lads to get hold of some I reckon...at a decent price!

Fighter jets for the Air Corps?

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