530i - low RPM, high gear

viperirl · 15-10-2019 8:47am #1

Hi All,

Just wondering if anyone else has experienced a similar issue that I've noticed in the last couple of days.
BMW - 5 series automatic. I've noticed that its in too high a gear when cruising along even at lowish speed. The RPM's are low ~1000-1200RPM.
If I pull the flappy paddle to downshift, it kicks down a gear and the RPM's increase as expected. But then it'll shift up and sometimes you can hear the engine labour ever so slightly.
It's like something is telling the engine or gearbox to be in too high a gear.

Any of you knowledgeable folk know what might be a possible cause?

It's still under warranty so am waiting on the garage to pencil me in for a service.
I'm hoping it's just something like a faulty sensor!

Cheers.

Toyotafanboi · 15-10-2019 9:07am

What year is it? Might be normal, unless it's only just started happening?

Lots of mew-ish auto cars will pull on from very low in the rev range with a minimal amount of labouring.

viperirl · 15-10-2019 9:43am

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

What year is it? Might be normal, unless it's only just started happening?

Lots of mew-ish auto cars will pull on from very low in the rev range with a minimal amount of labouring.

Its a 181. Definitely not normal as I've only noticed it at the end of last week

dodzy · 15-10-2019 9:49am

viperirl wrote: »

Its a 181. Definitely not normal as I've only noticed it at the end of last week

Wouldn’t be an ECO mode type setting that you’ve selected ? Guessing from your last reply that you have definitely recognized a ‘change’ so something is either not right or a change has been selected

kirving · 15-10-2019 9:53am

Is it in Eco mode? That would cause the care to attempt to drive in the highest gear possible for the speed at times.

Did you use better quality fuel than normally? A little more energy in the fuel could just tip over at threshold that the car thinks it can drive in the lower gear more often.

viperirl · 15-10-2019 10:30am

I've tried all driving modes and the gear selection is always too high. The give away is that the RPM's is too low.
As a test I put it into ECO mode the engine labouring was definitely more noticeable and I thought it might cut out.

Another example: On the M50 yesterday, in the left lane in busy traffic doing about 80kph. I noticed the RPM's around 1100 and a slight labour in the engine. I pulled on the flappy paddle to change down and it then displays M7. So it was already in 8th gear which is too high for that speed. I was barely feathering the throttle also.

Deffo something wrong as I'm quite attentive with the car and I picked up on it straight away. I'm just wondering what could be the root cause - something simple or a symptom of something more serious on the way, that's the concern.

CoBo55 · 15-10-2019 10:39am

Does giving it a bit more throttle drop it down a gear or two? I don't think there's anything wrong with it tbh.

Wetbench4 · 15-10-2019 11:12am

Don't these gearboxes learn your style of driving? Maybe it needs some proper driving to teach it otherwise;):D

viperirl · 15-10-2019 11:23am

CoBo55 wrote: »

Does giving it a bit more throttle drop it down a gear or two? I don't think there's anything wrong with it tbh.

Yes a squeeze on the throttle kicks it down a gear or two, RPMs increase as expected but then it'll change gears up again pretty quickly with the lowered RPMs.

As for fuel, I did put about 60 quids worth of petrol in it the day before I noticed the issue. I wouldn't have thought that would cause the issue I'm seeing.

dodzy · 15-10-2019 11:26am

viperirl wrote: »

Yes a squeeze on the throttle kicks it down a gear or two, RPMs increase as expected but then it'll change gears up again pretty quickly with the lowered RPMs.

As for fuel, I did put about 60 quids worth of petrol in it the day before I noticed the issue. I wouldn't have thought that would cause the issue I'm seeing.

1100 rpms is labour-land alright. You have it booked in. Thankfully it’s warranty. Would not like any non-warranty box issues with that car😉

CoBo55 · 15-10-2019 12:11pm

viperirl wrote: »

Yes a squeeze on the throttle kicks it down a gear or two, RPMs increase as expected but then it'll change gears up again pretty quickly with the lowered RPMs.

As for fuel, I did put about 60 quids worth of petrol in it the day before I noticed the issue. I wouldn't have thought that would cause the issue I'm seeing.

Honestly I really don't think there's anything wrong. My last two cars were petrol autos and the box would be in 7th in a flash even driving around town, both were 7 speed boxes. What mileage is on the car? Maybe the engine is freeing up and producing more torque as it settles.

zilog_jones · 15-10-2019 12:18pm

viperirl wrote: »

Its a 181. Definitely not normal as I've only noticed it at the end of last week

It's got a lot colder in the past couple of weeks, maybe the change in temperature is changing its behaviour? Did you only buy the car this year?

I know modern auto boxes will change profiles based on coolant temperature and other factors.

dodzy · 15-10-2019 2:53pm

CoBo55 wrote: »

Honestly I really don't think there's anything wrong.My last two cars were petrol autos and the box would be in 7th in a flash even driving around town, both were 7 speed boxes. What mileage is on the car? Maybe the engine is freeing up and producing more torque as it settles.

I think it's fair to say that the OP recognizes a noticeable difference, seems competent based on their descriptive posts, hence a change/problem, and will need investigation.

GustavoFring · 15-10-2019 3:27pm

Wetbench4 wrote: »

Don't these gearboxes learn your style of driving? Maybe it needs some proper driving to teach it otherwise;):D

This.

You can reset them yourself and see if it makes a difference. Press the start button, press down the accelerator for about 30 seconds, hit the button again to turn it off, remove foot and then leave it a few minutes. Worth a shot anyway.

viperirl · 18-10-2019 6:38am

GustavoFring wrote: »

This.

You can reset them yourself and see if it makes a difference. Press the start button, press down the accelerator for about 30 seconds, hit the button again to turn it off, remove foot and then leave it a few minutes. Worth a shot anyway.

Thanks but that didn't do anything.

Normally the mpg is around 29-31 which is what's expected for the car. Since last week I've noticed it above 36, sometimes 39mpg. That's way too high for that car. Driving the same routes so nothing different there.

dodzy · 18-10-2019 7:47am

viperirl wrote: »

Thanks but that didn't do anything.

Normally the mpg is around 29-31 which is what's expected for the car. Since last week I've noticed it above 36, sometimes 39mpg. That's way too high for that car. Driving the same routes so nothing different there.

That’s a first; someone complain8ng about using too little fuel

But seriously, what happens when in sport mode? My 520 (different car I know) runs at approx 13-1400 rpms in 8th @ around 80 or thereabouts. Engaging sport mode will increase the rpms by approx 600 (and drop a gear if necessary) keeping on boost at all times. Just curious what you see when S mode is engaged?

viperirl · 18-10-2019 8:04am

dodzy wrote: »

That’s a first; someone complain8ng about using too little fuel

But seriously, what happens when in sport mode? My 520 (different car I know) runs at approx 13-1400 rpms in 8th @ around 80 or thereabouts. Engaging sport mode will increase the rpms by approx 600 (and drop a gear if necessary) keeping on boost at all times. Just curious what you see when S mode is engaged?

My RPM's will be sometimes 1000-1100RPM in 8th @around 80. Too low for a petrol engine I think and way lower than it has been before all this.
Putting it in sport mode sharpens things up and the gears drop but it's still about a gear or 2 too high and the response isnt as snappy due to it having to kick down more gears when you put your foot down.
Using ECO mode as a test, then you can really hear the engine labour.

Anyway, it's booked into the dealer for next Wednesday. I'm just dreading them coming back to me saying ah nothing wrong with the car, its working fine. Me hole it is.

CoBo55 · 18-10-2019 9:59am

You really want something to be wrong with this car don't you? Modern petrol engines are easily capable of ambling along at those rpm, so long as it drops gears quickly when you need it I'd be happy with it. You're getting the best of both worlds, good economy and performance when you need it. What mileage is on it?

kirving · 18-10-2019 11:09am

There could be something wrong with it. The sudden increase in MPG would suggest a step change. If it was a serious problem, you would almost certainly get a warning light.

However, a combination of better fuel, colder air, an engine/gearbox ECU that is learning driving styles and trying out new settings, may be just enough for the car to select a lower gear than otherwise.

Sometimes I'll get into my car and the gearbox seems in a world of its own for a while, but all that's happening is the engine is trying to warm up or do a DPF burn off and keeping the revs higher than would otherwise be normal.

CoBo55 · 18-10-2019 11:27am

Kevin Irving wrote: »

There could be something wrong with it. The sudden increase in MPG would suggest a step change. If it was a serious problem, you would almost certainly get a warning light.

However, a combination of better fuel, colder air, an engine/gearbox ECU that is learning driving styles and trying out new settings, may be just enough for the car to select a lower gear than otherwise.

Sometimes I'll get into my car and the gearbox seems in a world of its own for a while, but all that's happening is the engine is trying to warm up or do a DPF burn off and keeping the revs higher than would otherwise be normal.

Decrease in mpg, hardly a bad thing.

kirving · 18-10-2019 12:10pm

CoBo55 wrote: »

Decrease in mpg, hardly a bad thing.

Increase in MPG, decrease in consumption. :pac:

Incorrect, or just a different ratio (less fuel) will cause the engine to run hotter, which it might be designed to do, but may also be a problem. But a sensor would almost certainly detect this early before and damage was caused.

CoBo55 · 18-10-2019 1:03pm

Kevin Irving wrote: »

Increase in MPG, decrease in consumption. :pac:

Incorrect, or just a different ratio (less fuel) will cause the engine to run hotter, which it might be designed to do, but may also be a problem. But a sensor would almost certainly detect this early before and damage was caused.

Obviously the lower rpm are making it lighter on fuel.

Henry Ford III · 18-10-2019 1:07pm

Maybe it thinks it's a diesel?

dodzy · 18-10-2019 1:15pm

CoBo55 wrote: »

You really want something to be wrong with this car don't you? Modern petrol engines are easily capable of ambling along at those rpm, so long as it drops gears quickly when you need it I'd be happy with it. You're getting the best of both worlds, good economy and performance when you need it. What mileage is on it?

Don't be ridiculous. OP knows there is something wrong with the car but would obviously prefer if there wasn't.
That car is in the range of 250bhp and should be very quick off the mark. Like the OP, I'd be pissed but at the same time glad that warranty was on my side.

CoBo55 wrote: »

Decrease in mpg, hardly a bad thing.

That would be great alright. Higher costs for less response.

kaahooters · 18-10-2019 1:17pm

dodzy wrote: »

That would be great alright. Higher costs for less response.

.

what?

Zubeneschamali · 18-10-2019 3:22pm

kaahooters wrote: »

what?

Decrease in mpg (what you wrote) would mean using more fuel per mile, not less.

You meant increase in mpg.

kaahooters · 18-10-2019 3:38pm

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Decrease in mpg (what you wrote) would mean using more fuel per mile, not less.

You meant increase in mpg.

ya did read the thread, yea? and who are the posters?

Toyotafanboi · 18-10-2019 4:11pm

CoBo55 wrote: »

You really want something to be wrong with this car don't you? Modern petrol engines are easily capable of ambling along at those rpm, so long as it drops gears quickly when you need it I'd be happy with it. You're getting the best of both worlds, good economy and performance when you need it. What mileage is on it?

My gut instinct is with you on this.

I'm not too familiar with new BMW's, mostly VAG products but anything relatively modern, petrol and auto will potter along happy out at sub 1500 rpm and closer to 1000 rpm with a light load. It wouldn't be unusual (I know it's a different type of car) to look down in a 1.0 tsi dsg golf and find it in 5th gear at 45-50km/h doing 1100rpm.

Youd very rarely hear labouring or knock as they are very quick to drop a gear or two to respond to when the load changes. Ten or fifteen years ago, pulling on from 1000rpm in any gear other than first would have been considered labouring but not so any more in my experience.

I'm not saying there isn't an issue with the OP's car but a lot of what's being described is normal behaviour in a modern petrol - auto combo.

CoBo55 · 19-10-2019 3:00pm

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

My gut instinct is with you on this.

I'm not too familiar with new BMW's, mostly VAG products but anything relatively modern, petrol and auto will potter along happy out at sub 1500 rpm and closer to 1000 rpm with a light load. It wouldn't be unusual (I know it's a different type of car) to look down in a 1.0 tsi dsg golf and find it in 5th gear at 45-50km/h doing 1100rpm.

Youd very rarely hear labouring or knock as they are very quick to drop a gear or two to respond to when the load changes. Ten or fifteen years ago, pulling on from 1000rpm in any gear other than first would have been considered labouring but not so any more in my experience.

I'm not saying there isn't an issue with the OP's car but a lot of what's being described is normal behaviour in a modern petrol - auto combo.

Thank you.

bkehoe · 20-10-2019 12:06pm

This kind of RPM is totally normal on a modern turbo petrol. As others have said the gearbox will learn your driving style and adapt over time. I've a new E53 Merc and it will rapidly change gears to give a RPM in the very low 1000s when in normal driving modes.

viperirl · 20-10-2019 6:56pm

Thanks for the responses lads. I guess what had me worried was that the change was quite sudden - from one day to the next along with a 10mpg difference in the days after. This wasn't a gradual change over time. Anyway I'll keep an eye on it.

530i - low RPM, high gear

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