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04-10-2005, 22:01   #1
dbyrne
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Two tolls for the M3

Just looking at the new m3 motorway site, thinking of moving to meath, but it casts some doubts on how people can commute to dublin everyday if there is going to be an extra 4 - 5 yoyos a day for getting in and out of the city for a road that you have already paid for.

on the link below, go to page 3 of 4 and you will see the location of the 2 toll booths in question.

http://www.m3motorway.ie/Publications/file,1750,en.pdf

this is absolutely crazy, you cannot put 2 tolls on it, think of the nightmare and the traffic jams. just use the old n3 but i am sure that the n3/m3 link up will be just before the tolls, like the m1 so that you cannot escape.

also i heard that the outer ring road that is to be built to link tallaght/lucan/clonee is also to meet somewhere around the tolls, think i read it in a pdf on the meath council website, have to check my facts on this one before i go nuts.

has anyone else heard of this and why arent the people of meath going nuts..
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04-10-2005, 22:22   #2
Victor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbyrne
has anyone else heard of this and why arent the people of meath going nuts..
Because Kells people will drive to Navan to bypass the first toll, whereas Cavan people and others can't get around the toll so easily. Meath people will end up paying only one toll and will continue to vote for the usual politicians.

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for a road that you have already paid for.
Could you explain this bit?
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04-10-2005, 22:55   #3
dbyrne
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2 tolls for the m3

thats ok but if you have a business for example in cavan and you have to go 3 - 4 times a week to dublin its going to cost you alot of money. or vice versa.
Even if you decide to go to donegal for the weekend it could cost you € 10 in tolls to get their and back (im taking that the toll would be 2 - 2.50 each way)

Quote:
for a road that you have already paid for.

there is no major need for the PPPs as we pay over the odds for road tax etc and europe also give us crazy amounts of money to invest in our roads, the problem is that too much is wasted. tolls cause traffic jams and loss of earnings sitting in traffic
you could always toll the roads and opnce they are paid for remove the tolls... alot of people would be happy with that i am sure. the amoun of money that nto get for the tolls but the government make even more from the tolls tha the nto do and that is a discrace.
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05-10-2005, 00:13   #4
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Well this was debated at length a few months ago. The people of Meath have been duped wholesale by the political supporters of this uneccessary motorway - a monument to appaling planning, bureacrats and the destruction of one of the most significant and iconic historical sites in Ireland - Tara. The government tried to deflect the attention and criticism of the M3 onto those "unelected" environmentalist. Who remembers that laughable publicity shot of Cullen and that idiot FF councillor from Navan who was a candidate - taken on the N3 at Blanchardstown - the only part of the road that is near motorway standard - saying that the m-way will cure all this. Bottom line is that Meath commuters don't need this road - they will still queue on the approaches to the M50, they will still queue at the two sets of toll booths and they will still have no rail alternative to travelling by road (those going to the P+R at Dunboyne will still have to pay the tolls so they may as well continue driving).

This road will operate at undercapacity just like the M1 and the M2, sorry N2, that run parallel to it. SO who benefits? Meath commuters? No, an upgrade on the N3 would have met their needs. Bureaucrats? Yes. once it's built it justifys their existence and covers up their ineptidude. The real winners are ... you guessed .... PROPERTY OWNERS! Wholesale planning permissions can now be granted for endless sub standard housing estates, retail parks, hotels and just about anything else you care to think of. In fact applications are already piling on the basis that the M3 will be opened 'soon'. Large land banks have already been purchased by well known people in the building industry.

Meath councillors ... the guys who fought for the M3 and put hotels beside castles!

Last edited by BrianD; 05-10-2005 at 00:15.
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05-10-2005, 23:07   #5
Trampas
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Is the current N3 nearer to the hill of tara than the proposed m3??
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05-10-2005, 23:09   #6
dbyrne
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2 tolls for the m3

yes the m3 will be further away, it will be closer to skeen, look at the new m3 motorway website, link above, and you can see from the maps where it will run
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06-10-2005, 08:11   #7
cournioni
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianD
Well this was debated at length a few months ago. The people of Meath have been duped wholesale by the political supporters of this uneccessary motorway - a monument to appaling planning, bureacrats and the destruction of one of the most significant and iconic historical sites in Ireland - Tara. The government tried to deflect the attention and criticism of the M3 onto those "unelected" environmentalist. Who remembers that laughable publicity shot of Cullen and that idiot FF councillor from Navan who was a candidate - taken on the N3 at Blanchardstown - the only part of the road that is near motorway standard - saying that the m-way will cure all this. Bottom line is that Meath commuters don't need this road - they will still queue on the approaches to the M50, they will still queue at the two sets of toll booths and they will still have no rail alternative to travelling by road (those going to the P+R at Dunboyne will still have to pay the tolls so they may as well continue driving).

This road will operate at undercapacity just like the M1 and the M2, sorry N2, that run parallel to it. SO who benefits? Meath commuters? No, an upgrade on the N3 would have met their needs. Bureaucrats? Yes. once it's built it justifys their existence and covers up their ineptidude. The real winners are ... you guessed .... PROPERTY OWNERS! Wholesale planning permissions can now be granted for endless sub standard housing estates, retail parks, hotels and just about anything else you care to think of. In fact applications are already piling on the basis that the M3 will be opened 'soon'. Large land banks have already been purchased by well known people in the building industry.

Meath councillors ... the guys who fought for the M3 and put hotels beside castles!
Wow... I've never seen such a misty eyed arguement in all of my life, you should join the DUP or something. Your point on the Hill of Tara is laughable. You should really look into the fact that it is further away from the M3 than the current N3.

Why do Meath/Cavan/Fermanagh/Donegal people want the M3 to happen?

Safety. The current N3 is one of the most dangerous roads in Ireland with the amount of traffic on it at the moment. And I'm pretty sure the residents of Kells, Navan and Dunshaughlin want to see fewer cars on the streets of their towns too because of this too. I'm sure they are having fun trying to cross the road with their kids going to school.

Can you not see these people benefiting? I'm pretty sure families who have lost their sons and daughters to this road over the years would welcome it.

And there you are thinking about property owners...

Last edited by cournioni; 06-10-2005 at 08:14.
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06-10-2005, 10:11   #8
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The only real solution for commuters is to reopen a rail line to Navan in the short term and eventually extend it all the way to Cavan.
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06-10-2005, 11:46   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PORNAPSTER
Wow... I've never seen such a misty eyed arguement in all of my life, you should join the DUP or something. Your point on the Hill of Tara is laughable. You should really look into the fact that it is further away from the M3 than the current N3.

Why do Meath/Cavan/Fermanagh/Donegal people want the M3 to happen?

Safety. The current N3 is one of the most dangerous roads in Ireland with the amount of traffic on it at the moment. And I'm pretty sure the residents of Kells, Navan and Dunshaughlin want to see fewer cars on the streets of their towns too because of this too. I'm sure they are having fun trying to cross the road with their kids going to school.

Can you not see these people benefiting? I'm pretty sure families who have lost their sons and daughters to this road over the years would welcome it.

And there you are thinking about property owners...

I am from the area and have lived and commuted there for years. There is no evidence to support your claims that the N3 is a dangerous road (any more than any other route) and the fact is that the N3 is probably in better condition then other N routes. Take a trip to Waterford and you'll notice the difference.

The FACT of the matter is that needs of all N3 users could be met by a modest upgrade of the route and by bypasses of Dunshaughlin, Kells and Navan - all of these were on the cards until the M3 was proposed. The M3 could not be justified if they had been built.

Take a scan down the planning list and look at the number of new applications that use the M3 as a justification. Properties are already being advertised with M3 frontage. Plenty of more cars for the toll plaza queues. It is obvious that Dublin's sprawl can only go one direction - north and west. The M3, N (really M) and M1 facilitate this. You might want have a look who's already got land banks close to the M3 route.

The hill of tara is iconic and few countries would allow a road like the M3 so close to a national monument. The current location of the N3 is irrelevant to the arguement. The other shocking fact that the well paid planners should have anticipated that running a motorway through an area of significant archaelogical importance would cause controversy, delay and a possible rerouting all at the tax payers expense and commuters left with a route that is in need of upgrading.

At the same time, no committment is given to a rail alternative for commuters. Plenty of talk when the elections were on and then the possibility of a spur to Dunboyne. All talk ... no substance ... no plan. No doubt when the M3 will be built there will be disruption while they build rail bridges.

Anyway, I'm getting the parents to known down the house and we'll build an Ikea or something. We'll figure out how to get the traffic of the m-way one way or another ...
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06-10-2005, 12:36   #10
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The M3 has all the hallmarks of a scam-job. One thing that is not well known about the M3 is that it will destroy any probability of the Navan-Clonsilla line being rebuilt.

Why? The M3 is another "nail in the coffin" of a long list of violations of the old alignment. There have been houses built on it, sewer mains laid on it, and now the M3 will cross that alignment again at grade. See here.

And to think FF came to power in 2002 promising a commuter railway service to Navan ...
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06-10-2005, 13:02   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PORNAPSTER
Why do Meath/Cavan/Fermanagh/Donegal people want the M3 to happen?
Fermanagh is in a foreign country, so I couldn't givea monkey's if they want it to happen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PORNAPSTER
Safety. The current N3 is one of the most dangerous roads in Ireland with the amount of traffic on it at the moment.
Ah the old 'if you can't think of anything just make up statistics!'. The N3 through Meath is classified as 'medium risk' by EuroRAP, the N3 through Cavn is even safer at 'low-medium risk' and the A509 in Fermanagh is effing 'High Rsk', so maybe the people of Fermanagh should look closer to hom for road upgrades! (source )

Quote:
Originally Posted by PORNAPSTER
And I'm pretty sure the residents of Kells, Navan and Dunshaughlin want to see fewer cars on the streets of their towns too because of this too. I'm sure they are having fun trying to cross the road with their kids going to school.
All could have been solved a lon time ago if the proposed bypasses of these towns had proceeded instead of being binned so the M3 money maker could e built.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PORNAPSTER
Can you not see these people benefiting? I'm pretty sure families who have lost their sons and daughters to this road over the years would welcome it.
You can get emotive, but the statistics don't back you up. The road is already quite safe and a modestly priced upgrade to 2+1 n places and a GSJ or two coupled with bypasses of the aforementioned towns would make the road perfectly safe. As has been said before, try some of the other N routes in Ireland to see real danger. The N3 is a good road with a few dodgy bits (especially between Kells & Navan) that could b sorted with an online upgrade.

To be quite honest, I couldn't give a monkey's about the M3 but I know it's a scam to make money for FF cronies It'll do nothing for the users of the road that coldn't have been achieved at much reduced cost and without imposing tolls on the users. I know I'll never use the M3 if every other mug is on it I'll keep using the old road cos it's fine IMO.
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10-01-2007, 14:11   #12
rcunning03
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M3 to be tolled ?

Is it true there really is going to be two tolls on the M3 motorway ? Who's going to pay two tolls on the same motorway ? Seems crazy if it's true
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10-01-2007, 14:48   #13
Victor
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Yes, one toll near Dunboyne and one near Kells.
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10-01-2007, 15:01   #14
rcunning03
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Yes, one toll near Dunboyne and one near Kells.
No wonder they're building near Tara, Bury the fact there's going to be two tolls by building near an historic monument.
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10-01-2007, 15:02   #15
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Yip, 2 tolls each way if you travelling from north of Navan.

Or 3 tolls each way, 6 per day if you are unfortunate to work sth of the the M50 toll Plaza......

Or 2 tolls to use Pace P&R which is likely to be as close to Navan as the Clonsilla railway will get.

Some good news is that it is rumoured that there will be a clause or mechanism to off-set your toll payments against P&R payments - whether that is just bull remains to be seen..

Case of IÉ having to subsidise the toll?

BTW, the toll submissions were accepted 5 years ago, and the Inquiry is not obliged to accept any submissions other than those made then.

One of the 4 objectors was MCC - The NRA is refusing to give details as to who the others are or if they have been withdrawn.

Which means that the Inquiry may be a complete sham.

I won't be attending the Public Inquiry as I have absolutely no confidence that it will make any difference.
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