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31-10-2018, 06:23   #31
Colonel Claptrap
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There was a stabbing on board a Northern line service last night.

https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/dubli...ified-15351234

Reporting is inaccurate. It was not a DART.
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31-10-2018, 17:35   #32
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I don't get the DART regularly anymore but I used to get it daily.

I thought back then that there were security personnel working on the DART line.
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31-10-2018, 19:17   #33
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I don't get the DART regularly anymore but I used to get it daily.

I thought back then that there were security personnel working on the DART line.
There are but not on every train.

Also lot of linked up units where can't walk through all carriages.
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31-10-2018, 21:44   #34
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If they do go for a transport police it needs to have the same power, but be separate of the Garda much like the BTP.

Officers specifically trained to deal with incidents on the railway (PTS cards etc).

Keeping them separate will also mean that they are 100% dedicated to that role and are not going to have to deal with other issues.
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31-10-2018, 23:12   #35
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If they do go for a transport police it needs to have the same power, but be separate of the Garda much like the BTP.

Officers specifically trained to deal with incidents on the railway (PTS cards etc).

Keeping them separate will also mean that they are 100% dedicated to that role and are not going to have to deal with other issues.
I don't think we have a railway network big enough to justify it's own dedicated police force like the BTP. As I'm sure you're aware Britain unlike most countries in Europe doesn't a single national police force but rather a series of regional police forces.

I think there should be a Garda unit set aside to police rail and light rail systems obviously with proper railway related training. Perhaps could they could have a unit in most major stations such as Connolly, Pearse, Hueston even Busaras aswell and units patrolling both Luas lines and the Dart. You could also have some on the problem services such as those with an alcohol ban and services notorious for anti social behaviour.

A dedicated police would cost too much to set up and would largely duplicate AGS as it would need to have it's own commisoner, detectives, inspectors, superintendents and sergeants which would be a waste of resources for a small enough railway network.

Also then you got the issue of if there is to be an incident across the road from say a unit based in Connolly which would be across the road from a transport police unit but they would have to wait for a Garda response as the transport police would be leaving their jurisdiction likewise there could be an incident on board a train, on the track or in the station and the Gardai could be nearer the incident but yet they would have wait for s transport police unit to respond which might be further away. I can't see it being all that practical.
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01-11-2018, 00:27   #36
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I don't think we have a railway network big enough to justify it's own dedicated police force like the BTP. As I'm sure you're aware Britain unlike most countries in Europe doesn't a single national police force but rather a series of regional police forces.

I think there should be a Garda unit set aside to police rail and light rail systems obviously with proper railway related training. Perhaps could they could have a unit in most major stations such as Connolly, Pearse, Hueston even Busaras aswell and units patrolling both Luas lines and the Dart. You could also have some on the problem services such as those with an alcohol ban and services notorious for anti social behaviour.

A dedicated police would cost too much to set up and would largely duplicate AGS as it would need to have it's own commisoner, detectives, inspectors, superintendents and sergeants which would be a waste of resources for a small enough railway network.

Also then you got the issue of if there is to be an incident across the road from say a unit based in Connolly which would be across the road from a transport police unit but they would have to wait for a Garda response as the transport police would be leaving their jurisdiction likewise there could be an incident on board a train, on the track or in the station and the Gardai could be nearer the incident but yet they would have wait for s transport police unit to respond which might be further away. I can't see it being all that practical.
The BTP has one law but 2 ways of doing it. English law or Scottish for offences.

And BTP officers can still intervene and have full powers of arrest if they see a crime being committed.

The whole plan of amalgamation of the BTP in Scotland with Police Scotland was shelved because they knew that officers were going to get called away.

I have tried to find a post on the UK rail forum about why the BTP is valuable. Suicide was one example. The line is shut down because there are local police running around on a live railway. The DART was probably shut down the other night for the same reason. Garda on the tracks with no PTS cert.

An Irish version of the BTP could, with training, get trains moving quicker.

And an Irish transport police would cover all public transport. Trains, Luas, (DB & BE in certain cases). Everything thing from suicide to a bit graffiti.

And if you were to join the existing airport and port police to form a new transport unit, most of the infrastructure is there.

Last edited by prinzeugen; 01-11-2018 at 00:30.
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01-11-2018, 00:57   #37
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The BTP has one law but 2 ways of doing it. English law or Scottish for offences.

And BTP officers can still intervene and have full powers of arrest if they see a crime being committed.

The whole plan of amalgamation of the BTP in Scotland with Police Scotland was shelved because they knew that officers were going to get called away.

I have tried to find a post on the UK rail forum about why the BTP is valuable. Suicide was one example. The line is shut down because there are local police running around on a live railway. The DART was probably shut down the other night for the same reason. Garda on the tracks with no PTS cert.

An Irish version of the BTP could, with training, get trains moving quicker.

And an Irish transport police would cover all public transport. Trains, Luas, (DB & BE in certain cases). Everything thing from suicide to a bit graffiti.

And if you were to join the existing airport and port police to form a new transport unit, most of the infrastructure is there.
I see the need for such a force in a country like Britain with a large railway network but you have to remember here in Ireland we only have 362km of mainline track compared to nearly 16,000km of track in the UK so there's a fairly considerable difference between the UK and Ireland in terms of the need for a transport police. I'm not denying that the BTP is very suitable force for the nature of the British railway network but I just think it would be suitable here as we are a small country with a small network.

There is no reason why a Garda unit to tackle transport couldn't be set up and I believe it would be more cost effective and easier to set up than a separate police. No reason why members of dedicated Garda unit couldn't have PTS pass and proper training.

In the case of accidents and one unders you'd also have the issue of firefighters and paramedics on the tracks with no PTS certs not just police officers.
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01-11-2018, 01:02   #38
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You do see the police here in Sydney at the train stations with dogs, on the trains checking tickets and maintaining a presence on the lines where there is a greater chance of anti social behavior. I think that would be better, to have a section within AGS dedicated to policing transport.
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01-11-2018, 01:09   #39
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I see the need for such a force in a country like Britain with a large railway network but you have to remember here in Ireland we only have 362km of mainline track compared to nearly 16,000km of track in the UK so there's a fairly considerable difference between the UK and Ireland in terms of the need for a transport police. I'm not denying that the BTP is very suitable force for the nature of the British railway network but I just think it would be suitable here as we are a small country with a small network.

There is no reason why a Garda unit to tackle transport couldn't be set up and I believe it would be more cost effective and easier to set up than a separate police. No reason why members of dedicated Garda unit couldn't have PTS pass and proper training.

In the case of accidents and one unders you'd also have the issue of firefighters and paramedics on the tracks with no PTS certs not just police officers.
In the case of one unders.. The fire/ambulances know to wait. I will dig out that post.

How would a Garda with PTS deal with a incident if they were sitting with a 89 year old, taking ab aggravated burglary statement?

Drop what they do? The BTP got that TOX guy in London for £100,000s of damage to transport.
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01-11-2018, 08:48   #40
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... here in Ireland we only have 362km of mainline track ....
362Km can't be right, Dublin to Cork is 260Km by road so assume the rail distance is similar.
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01-11-2018, 08:52   #41
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It's about 2000km, plus the Luas system and city buses which would have a need for policing. We desperately need proper policing in stations and on vehicles, AGS are not going to be the provider of it

It would be impossible to even schedule PTS training for sufficient AGS members for that to be an option

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01-11-2018, 09:13   #42
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362Km can't be right, Dublin to Cork is 260Km by road so assume the rail distance is similar.
Sorry read the wrong stat correction is 2,600km of track
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01-11-2018, 09:18   #43
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In the case of one unders.. The fire/ambulances know to wait. I will dig out that post.

How would a Garda with PTS deal with a incident if they were sitting with a 89 year old, taking ab aggravated burglary statement?

Drop what they do? The BTP got that TOX guy in London for £100,000s of damage to transport.
It would be a Garda unit dedicated to transport incidents they wouldn't respond to other non transport. You'd get the same benefit of a transport police without the cost of setting up a brand new police with it's own commisoner, detectives, sergeants and inspectors.
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01-11-2018, 09:37   #44
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It would be a Garda unit dedicated to transport incidents they wouldn't respond to other non transport. You'd get the same benefit of a transport police without the cost of setting up a brand new police with it's own commisoner, detectives, sergeants and inspectors.
We all know that if they are part of the Gardai, they would soon be pulled off transport duties and end up doing "regular" duties, just like the Traffic Division.

We need to keep them separate in order for them to stay focused on the task at hand.

As for the comments about costs and overheads. Well we have a separate Airport Police and Harbour Police and their overheads, so I don't see why setting up another service would be a major problem.

If you want to save a little on the costs, you could merge the Airport Police and Harbour Police into a new Transport Police Service.
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01-11-2018, 09:47   #45
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As for the comments about costs and overheads. Well we have a separate Airport Police and Harbour Police and their overheads, so I don't see why setting up another service would be a major problem.

If you want to save a little on the costs, you could merge the Airport Police and Harbour Police into a new Transport Police Service.
The Airport and harbour police forces are tiny with limited ability to investigate crime. Also they have been around quite a while I think the Dun Laoghaire harbour police for example date back to 1836 making them the oldest uniformed force in the state. While the airport and port police forces have the power of arrest they then have to hand suspects over to the Gardai for questioning afaik.
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