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27-10-2018, 23:35   #16
the_syco
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Originally Posted by daheff View Post
stick them on the red luas line for a couple of months and drive the scum off it.
IMO, give the LUAS security people more leeway on how to deal with the anti-social yobs.
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27-10-2018, 23:38   #17
punisher5112
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To be honest I don't see it working as they can't cope or enforce most other laws as it is.

What about all the issues on buses.

There is no back up whats ever.
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27-10-2018, 23:49   #18
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There should be some sort of transport Police. In most European countries there is security on nearly every single train and it results in very little trouble. Yet we dont have a huge Transport set up here and we still cant police it. Disgraceful that people cannot go on public transport without worrying about what may happen.
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28-10-2018, 00:55   #19
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I don't buy this.. the problem with AGS is the culture in the force.

Many Gardai just can't be bothered with doing their jobs and you see this every day and in dealings with them. That's just the day-to-day apathy.. I'm not going to even get into some of the behavior revealed in the whistleblower saga.

Unless that changes, it won't matter how many of them there are.
There is a definite issue with the culture in the force but that does not detract from the fact that these lads and ladies are paid a pittance for what they do and there isn't anywhere near enough of them. We should have ringfenced road traffic division and a transport police, not drawn from the current numbers on the force.

They pick and choose what they are interested in pursuing because there isn't enough of them to pursue everything.
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28-10-2018, 07:47   #20
JayRoc
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At least they will have powers of arrest which current security personnel don't.
Actually, they do.
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28-10-2018, 09:51   #21
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Actually, they do.
Not quite

Private security hired in, no power

Authorised officer of the company appointed as a revenue protection official has a warrant card and can detain subject to the provisions of the Transport Acts
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29-10-2018, 09:08   #22
JayRoc
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Not quite

Private security hired in, no power

Authorised officer of the company appointed as a revenue protection official has a warrant card and can detain subject to the provisions of the Transport Acts
Private Security personnel have the power of arrest. Haven't you ever seen a security guard arrest a shoplifter?

They have the same right to arrest someone that you and I and every non-garda has. Which is substantial and usually sufficient.

Last edited by JayRoc; 29-10-2018 at 09:11.
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29-10-2018, 09:19   #23
JayRoc
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. At least they will have powers of arrest which current security personnel don't.
I think I actually misunderstood your post, I think you were saying the gardai have additional powers of arrest to what the security have? If so apologies for correcting something you didn't say!
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29-10-2018, 09:25   #24
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Many Gardai just can't be bothered with doing their jobs and you see this every day and in dealings with them. That's just the day-to-day apathy..
Much of this stems from the judicial system/lack of prison places etc. Same with any worker who regularly sees their hard work going to waste.
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29-10-2018, 10:15   #25
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A non payer stopped my train the other year security wouldn't remove him no Garda available to deal with but they waited on the Garda. Who never came. Whole line blocked for an hour or more.

Passed about 20 Garda and cars all hanging around an eviction not 5 mins away after I left the train.

Something needed to change. Its got to lunacy levels out there.
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29-10-2018, 11:58   #26
goingnowhere
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Private Security personnel have the power of arrest. Haven't you ever seen a security guard arrest a shoplifter?

They have the same right to arrest someone that you and I and every non-garda has. Which is substantial and usually sufficient.
Power to detain and power to arrest are two different things
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29-10-2018, 13:12   #27
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An account of both high profile incidents in Portmarnock and Clongriffin and apparently the most troublesome routes are Dublin-Sligo and Dublin-Cork, according to staff.

Sligo is not a surprise, wonder if the census figures for one or two towns on the route explain who causes the most trouble!

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/irel...rail-1.3675372
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29-10-2018, 13:25   #28
GM228
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Private Security personnel have the power of arrest. Haven't you ever seen a security guard arrest a shoplifter?

They have the same right to arrest someone that you and I and every non-garda has. Which is substantial and usually sufficient.
Every person in the state has a power of arrest (often called a citizens arrest), but it is not unqualified, to carry out such lawfully the person being arrested must be suspected of committing what is known an "arrestable offence", despite it's confusing name this does not mean any offence which you can ordinarily be arrested for, rather an arrestable offence is one which carries a potential 5 year + sentence, as most offences under the Transport Act and CIE/LUAS bye-laws are not arrestable offences then pricate security staff have no power of arrest. CIE/LUAS staff however do have such powers of arrest as per statute. Transdev and TII were exploring the possibility of appointing private security as "authorised persons" to afford them the powers of arrest, must follow up on that.

A cirizens arrest is a very risky move to make if you do not know the law, if you attempt to do so on someone who has not committed or is suspected of committing an arrestable offence then you could be in very serious trouble for making an unlawful arrest, false imprisonment or depriving some of their constitutional rights.

Security staff can lawfully arrest someone for shop lifting because it's an arrestable offence, however try arresting someone for suspected drink driving for example and you are in trouble as it isn't an arrestable offence.

Last edited by GM228; 29-10-2018 at 19:56.
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29-10-2018, 13:28   #29
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Power to detain and power to arrest are two different things
Not really, a power to arrest is a power to lawfully detain, further detention after arrest is the iasue and once you make a lawful arrest you can detain someone as long as needed to hand them over to Gardaí.
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29-10-2018, 15:48   #30
JayRoc
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Originally Posted by GM228 View Post
Every person in the state has a power of arrest (often called a citizens arrest), but it is not unqualified, to carry out such lawfully the person being arrested must be suspected of committing what is known an "arrestable offence", despite it's confusing name this does not mean any offence which you can ordinarily be arrested for, rather an arrestable offence is one which carries a potential 5 year + sentence, as most offences under the Transport Act and CIE/LUAS bye-laws are not arrestable offences then pricate security staff have no power of arrest. CIE/LUAS staff however do have such powers of arrest as per statute. Transdev and TII were exploring the possibility of appointing private security as "authorised persons" to afford them the powers of arrest, must follow up on that.

A cirizens arrest is a very risky move to make if you do not know the law v if you attempt to do so on someone who has not committed or is suspected of committing an arrestable offence then you could be in very serious trouble for making an unlawful arrest, false imprisonment or depriving some of their constitutional rights.

Security staff can lawfully arrest someone for shop lifting because it's an arrestable offence, however try arresting someone for suspected drink driving for example and you are in trouble as it isn't an arrestable offence.

I worked in the private security industry for ten years , I am aware of all of the above believe me! But I was making the point that private security do have the power to arrest people. We all do. It's a common misconception.
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