Dublin Bus selling some of its VTs

punisher5112 · 16-12-2018 11:41am

StreetLight wrote: »

I don't know where you're getting that from. The VTs were first introduced to the 46A on a Sunday (18th of December 2005).

It was moreso after they found they were eating the tyres for a few years they rarely done weekend works.

They had the lowest miles on them for their year for a long time too.

They do use them however anytime now as with loading.

thomasj · 16-12-2018 12:41pm

Strangely enough, phibsboro put the VTs on the 39s on a Sunday and put the SGs on the 39As.

Stephen15 · 16-12-2018 1:10pm

I don't see the big deal in the lose of the VTs as they are being replaced by 30 SGs that's 1.5 buses replacing every VT which is a capacity increase. Of course it's sad to see them go as they were a nice bus but increasing capacity is always a good thing surely.

p_haugh · 18-12-2018 4:24pm

6 of the 05 VTs have already been withdrawn and are being sent off to Ensign in the UK. Seen in Dublin Port this morning.
(Pictures are not mine).

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n!ghtmancometh · 18-12-2018 8:59pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

I don't see the big deal in the lose of the VTs as they are being replaced by 30 SGs that's 1.5 buses replacing every VT which is a capacity increase. Of course it's sad to see them go as they were a nice bus but increasing capacity is always a good thing surely.

Big deal is there is more demand than ever for busses. The VT's were also used on the 26/66/67 and 25's and would be jammed at peak times, to the point where they would often be full by the time they reached the south quays outbound in the evenings. All those routes will now have less capacity, longer waiting times and there is 2 drivers being used to service the route instead of one. I can't understand how you can't see the issue to be honest.

The VT's were a big success, hopefully the NTA will come around and buy some of those Edinburgh busses, but that would involve common sense, which has been serioulsy lacking in most of the NTA's actions so far.

AngryLips · 18-12-2018 9:31pm

I suppose the main problem with a bus of this size is that they only have one door. The longer dwell times of a one-door bus would be compounded by the fact that it is of much greater capacity. I wonder what the culture of using the second door is among DB drivers these days, I've found that the rear door is used much more often now, but passengers are still reluctant to queue to get off via the rear door because there's still the odd time when they don't open.

thomasj · 18-12-2018 9:37pm

n!ghtmancometh wrote: »

Big deal is there is more demand than ever for busses. The VT's were also used on the 26/66/67 and 25's and would be jammed at peak times, to the point where they would often be full by the time they reached the south quays outbound in the evenings. All those routes will now have less capacity, longer waiting times and there is 2 drivers being used to service the route instead of one. I can't understand how you can't see the issue to be honest.

The VTs on the Lucan road corridor will be around for another 2 years or so

Stephen15 · 18-12-2018 9:56pm

n!ghtmancometh wrote: »

Big deal is there is more demand than ever for busses. The VT's were also used on the 26/66/67 and 25's and would be jammed at peak times, to the point where they would often be full by the time they reached the south quays outbound in the evenings. All those routes will now have less capacity, longer waiting times and there is 2 drivers being used to service the route instead of one. I can't understand how you can't see the issue to be honest.

The VT's were a big success, hopefully the NTA will come around and buy some of those Edinburgh busses, but that would involve common sense, which has been serioulsy lacking in most of the NTA's actions so far.

The VTs that are being withdrawn are all 05 VTs which are exclusive to Donnybrook and almost exclusively operate the 46a meaning they don't operate on the Lucan corridor which I'd imagine is operated by either Phibsboro or Broadstone 07 VTs which I'd imagine will remain in service for another 2 or 3 years when the decision to either go back and purchase 50 tri-axles to replace them or purchase a larger quantity of regular sized deckers.

Remember Donnybrook has had the most routes go to GAI so there will be a large quantity of displaced drivers that can work a larger quantity of buses in Donnybrook. Also DB is currently in the middle of a recruitment drive.

punisher5112 · 18-12-2018 10:15pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

The VTs that are being withdrawn are all 05 VTs which are exclusive to Donnybrook and almost exclusively operate the 46a meaning they don't operate on the Lucan corridor which I'd imagine is operated by either Phibsboro or Broadstone 07 VTs which I'd imagine will remain in service for another 2 or 3 years when the decision to either go back and purchase 50 tri-axles to replace them or purchase a larger quantity of regular sized deckers.

Remember Donnybrook has had the most routes go to GAI so there will be a large quantity of displaced drivers that can work a larger quantity of buses in Donnybrook. Also DB is currently in the middle of a recruitment drive.

They increased service and took on the 15.

Still don't have enough drivers to cover.

Stephen15 · 18-12-2018 10:41pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

They increased service and took on the 15.

Still don't have enough drivers to cover.

Yeah but in January and February the 17, 18, 114 and 161 will all be gone from Donnybrook which should free up buses and drivers. Although I'm not sure how they'll manage it as the new route 155 will be introduced and the 54a will be getting an increase unless they can recruit enough drivers.

ITV2 · 18-12-2018 10:43pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

Yeah but in January and February the 17, 18, 114 and 161 will all be gone from Donnybrook which should free up buses and drivers. Although I'm not sure how they'll manage it as the new route 155 will be introduced and the 54a will be getting an increase unless they can recruit enough drivers.

and the 11's

Stephen15 · 18-12-2018 10:51pm

ITV2 wrote: »

and the 11's

Is the 11 due to get an increase? Not according to this NTA piece.

Improvements to the following Dublin Bus routes will be introduced on a phased basis as driver and vehicle resources become available over the coming months.

Route 1 - Santry to Sandymount via City Centre
Route 4 - Harristown to Monkstown via Ballymun Road, City Centre and Ballsbridge
Route 13 – Harristown to Grange Castle via Ballymun Road, City Centre and Clondalkin
Route 16 – Dublin Airport to Ballinteer via Santry, City Centre and Rathfarnham
Route 25a – Lucan Esker to Merrion Square via Chapelizod Bypass and City Centre
Route 25b – Adamstown to Merrion Square via Chapelizod Bypass and City Centre
Route 26 – Palmerstown to Merrion Square via Chapelizod Village and City Centre
Route 38 – Damastown to Burlington Road via New Cabra Road, Phibsborough and City Centre
Route 38a – Damastown to Burlington Road via New Cabra Road, Phibsborough and City Centre
Route 39a – Ongar to UCD Belfield via Blanchardstown Centre, Old Cabra Road and City Centre
NEW Route 40e – Tyrellstown to Broombridge Luas via West Finglas
NEW Route 45 from Bray DART Station to Ikea via N11/Stillorgan Road, City Centre and Ballymun
Route 54a – Kiltipper to Pearse Street via Tallaght and Harold’s Cross
Route 66 Maynooth to Merrion Square via Chapelizod Village and City Centre
Route 66a – Leixlip Captain’s Hill to Merrion Square via Chapelizod Village ad City Centre
Route 66b – Leixlip Castletown to Merrion Square via Chapelizod Village and City Centre
NEW Route 66e – Maynooth to Merrion Square via Glen Easton, Chapelizod Village and City Centre
Route 70 – Dunboyne to Burlington Road via Blanchardstown Bypass, Old Cabra Road and City Centre
Route 83 – Harristown to Kimmage via Glasnevin, Phibsboro and City Cetre
Route 84/a – Newcastle to Blackrock via Greystones and Bray

punisher5112 · 19-12-2018 1:09am

The 11 is getting a new bill and new Mon to Friday duties like a few others.

Radio Gold · 19-12-2018 8:58pm

What about the 7 and 7A routes, no sign of them either

Stephen15 · 19-12-2018 9:15pm

Radio Gold wrote: »

What about the 7 and 7A routes, no sign of them either

Not due to get an increase. The 4 got a fairly substantial increase which likely covers that corridor and the 45a did too which covers the Sallynoggin area.

thomasj · 22-12-2018 2:33pm

It's crazy at the time of year that they decided to withdraw them.

39s, 39As, even the 39Ns have been busy with them since the start of December. I'm sure the ones withdrawn would have come in handy with the Christmas time rush on the Donnybrook routes.

john boye · 22-12-2018 4:09pm

thomasj wrote: »

It's crazy at the time of year that they decided to withdraw them.

Was only thinking this earlier. Why couldn't they have waited until the 155 starts at least? To replace them all with much lower capacity buses on one of the busiest weeks of the year with no service improvements is reckless and frankly insulting to regular users

tabbey · 05-01-2019 1:00am

Saw VT on 46A, twice today.

2007 reg, but could not see the individual number.

Have some of these been transferred to Donnybrook to replace the 2005 VT fleet?

thomasj · 05-01-2019 1:05am

tabbey wrote: »

Saw VT on 46A, twice today.

2007 reg, but could not see the individual number.

Have some of these been transferred to Donnybrook to replace the 2005 VT fleet?

No.

There's always been a number of 07 reg VTs at Donnybrook. VT21-VT35 if memory serves me correctly

Stephen15 · 05-01-2019 1:16am

thomasj wrote: »

No.

There's always been a number of 07 reg VTs at Donnybrook. VT21-VT35 if memory serves me correctly

Correct they mainly seem to work the 145 but also do the 46a aswell as the 84x and 116 at peak times.

punisher5112 · 05-01-2019 7:14am

2005 are all gone unfortunately.

The 2007 were transferred from phibsborough many years ago.

They had done service in that garage for a few years before hand.

hmmm · 05-01-2019 1:17pm

I loved these buses, comfortable to ride on with little rolling, individual seats, lots of capacity. They also seemed to be less prone to steaming up and becoming uncomfortable inside?

I'd have thought under the new proposed system, having large capacity buses like these running up and down wide bus corridors would be perfect, and a good way to carry the same capacity but with fewer drivers.

Stephen15 · 05-01-2019 3:44pm

hmmm wrote: »

I loved these buses, comfortable to ride on with little rolling, individual seats, lots of capacity. They also seemed to be less prone to steaming up and becoming uncomfortable inside?

I'd have thought under the new proposed system, having large capacity buses like these running up and down wide bus corridors would be perfect, and a good way to carry the same capacity but with fewer drivers.

What the NTA seem to want is to increase capacity through additional buses and additional drivers rather than larger buses.

dfx- · 05-01-2019 11:13pm

Capacity is a long way below emissions, running costs, maintenance costs, fleet uniformity, USB ports and Wifi. Capacity is somewhere down the bottom of the rankings with passenger comfort.

The 07s will face the same early fate too no doubt as the NTA would get rid of them now if they could.

The 07 VTs transferred over to Donnybrook from Broadstone when the 145 was extended to Heuston under Network Direct, which caused uproar at the time. The extra capacity was seen as the solution....

Stephen15 · 05-01-2019 11:29pm

dfx- wrote: »

Capacity is a long way below emissions, running costs, maintenance costs, fleet uniformity, USB ports and Wifi. Capacity is somewhere down the bottom of the rankings with passenger comfort.

The 07s will face the same early fate too no doubt as the NTA would get rid of them now if they could.

The 07 VTs transferred over to Donnybrook from Broadstone when the 145 was extended to Heuston under Network Direct, which caused uproar at the time. The extra capacity was seen as the solution....

You do realise that extra capacity is being invested in. The 20 VTs that were recently withdrawn were replaced by 30 or 40 SGs can't remember exactly how many have been bought but there has been an increase and certainly not a reduction in the capacity. As 30/40 SGs would represent far more capcity than 20 VTs.

The VTs were very handy during ND when capacity was severly reduced due to the recession. It's generally been DB standard practice to withdraw buses after 13 or 14 years which these were since the last KD/Cs were withdrawn. Not only does it enhance the passenger experience but it also reduces operating costs for DB or GAI as newer buses require less maintenance and are more fuel efficient.

Enthusiasts will always tell you an older bus is better than a new one. When the AVs were new they were going on about how much better the RV, RA and RHs were but now they all love the AVs and think the SGs are heaps of junk in ten years when there's a new class of bus they'll probably be waxing lyrical about how great the SGs are and how terrible the new buses are and so on and so forth.

punisher5112 · 06-01-2019 12:40am

Have you sat on an sg.... Wow they are pure crap..,..

This light weight excuse is rubbish...

Anyone ever here of a few extra screws and proper glue.

You want to experience every little people, tiny hair line crack then get these.

My back is killing me driving these heaps.

Stephen15 · 06-01-2019 12:56am

punisher5112 wrote: »

Have you sat on an sg.... Wow they are pure crap..,..

This light weight excuse is rubbish...

Anyone ever here of a few extra screws and proper glue.

You want to experience every little people, tiny hair line crack then get these.

My back is killing me driving these heaps.

I honestly don't find them anymore uncomfortable than any other DB bus in the fleet I can't comment on the drivers seat as I'm not a bus driver. I don't see how their any less comfortable than a VT considering both have the same style of seats. Bench seats are slightly more comfortable I will admit but people like to manspread on them so that's the compromise.

The only other bus on the large scale UK/Ireland double deck market is the Enviro 400 MMC which are meant to be fairly similar but they're on the same Volvo chassis and engine as with the SG. Oh and the the less common MCV EvoSeti but again on the same chassis and engine as the SG also meant to be fairly lightweight.

punisher5112 · 06-01-2019 1:09am

Stephen15 wrote: »

I honestly don't find them anymore uncomfortable than any other DB bus in the fleet I can't comment on the drivers seat as I'm not a bus driver. I don't see how their any less comfortable than a VT considering both have the same style of seats. Bench seats are slightly more comfortable I will admit but people like to manspread on them so that's the compromise.

The only other bus on the large scale UK/Ireland double deck market is the Enviro 400 MMC which are meant to be fairly similar but they're on the same Volvo chassis and engine as with the SG. Oh and the the less common MCV EvoSeti but again on the same chassis and engine as the SG also meant to be fairly lightweight.

The ev were great as their length was the same as an RV so much better getting around town as are the sg as less likely to hit anything with the tail swing.

I found the 2007 vt to not be as comfortable as the 2005 as the rear suspension when it would hit a pot hole or ramp it would release the air and them hit very hard on the next one, this seemed to be some valve issue but has never been fixed.

The 2005 were very powerful and were a dream to drive.

The RV were also very fast and very comfortable.

The sg have some good points such as you can put air to feet or dash or mix which 1st came on a wv but never worked but after the a VG/SG which is an improvement.

I've been a passenger on all and I'm not just saying it but you feel every single bump in the sg and I've had so many say it to me also including oh you were going a bit fast there.,.... Doing 20km/h or less as I've actually slowed for the road conditions.

The bus sways a lot more also.

Stephen15 · 06-01-2019 1:31am

I really liked the RVs too myself they were very comfortable and the heating on them was good in the winter they were also very well built and felt very solid on the road. Only complaint was the sliding windows which were often jammed and didn't let much air in if the bus was warm and the windows would often get fogged up.

But I can understand it's only right that DB has 100% lowfloor fleet other than I'd say no bus DB have had since the RV has come close in terms of build quality. Although the VG class are meant to quite good but I've only ever travelled on one once as all the routes in my area are Donnybrook operated. Worst buses were probably the WVs always felt like they were about to clap out.

thomasj · 06-01-2019 1:33am

Just with regards to the SG Vs VT debate.

I had a thought over the weekend , when I was on a train home, that the SGs were like the commuter railcars and VTs like the intercity railcars.

How so you may ask......

The VTs I find to have the more comfortable seats so when you're on a less busy VT, like on an intercity train when it's not busy and you have a seat to yourself it's a pleasant experience.

However, over December , I had experiences , on a 39A, where I was downstairs with a total of 30 people standing and it was the most cramped conditions, more so everytime someone was trying to come down from upstairs and you're trying to squeeze to help, it makes it even worse when there's a wheelchair or buggy user on.

The biggest mistake Dublin bus made, was only putting 1 set of doors on its VT buses.

This is where I compared to the intercity trains. Comfortable if youre sitting but there's been a lot of issues with mechanical issues resulting in shorter intercity trains and Irish rail have been getting a lot of complaints about capacity issues on these intercity and I have stood before on packed intercity trains and it's not a nice experience.

The SGs are like commuter trains because, they may have less seats , but more space downstairs and wider as well making it more comfortable for those who have to stand.

That's my thought

Dublin Bus selling some of its VTs

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