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21-10-2018, 20:57   #46
bk
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They had a gas bus back in 97 it never worked and had to be filled at the docks.
Ay, I'm quite dubious when I first heard it.

Though other cities have been successfully using them for years, hundreds running around various Swedish, Norwegian, etc. cities. So it does work, if you have the supporting infrastructure.

But as you say, I'd wonder about how and who is going to pay for depots to be upgraded for it and how neighbours would react.

And while it has decent CO performance, PM and Nox are questionable versus modern Diesels.

I would have thought that just following Londons example and going Hybrid would be the easiest approach all round.
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21-10-2018, 21:14   #47
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They had a gas bus back in 97 it never worked and had to be filled at the docks.
The hybrid VG didn't work out either was very unreliable and ended up going up in flames when it was sold on over in the UK.
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21-10-2018, 21:22   #48
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Hopefully Bus Connects sorts things out some stops are bad particularly around the city centre I'm not denying that . While some drivers are great there is a cohort of mainly senior drivers who refuse to use middle doors even if it is perfectly safe to do so.

If the proper infrastructure is put no reason why we can't have three door buses sure even London manages them despite the fact the new Routemasters were a complete waste of money.
Perhaps you might reflect on the generalization regarding individual Busdrivers (Senior or not),as it really does little to add to the current thread.

If you are offering an opinion on Centre Door useage as a passenger,well and good,but a Busdrivers opinion of "Perfectly Safe" and your own,may well differ for perfectly valid reasons,even if these are not visible to you at the point of exit.

The regulations on Bus Stop design & Installation can be found in the Traffic Signs Manual of the Dept of Transport.

http://trafficsigns.ie/wp-content/up...d-markings.pdf

Quote:
7.7.3
The major factor in achieving parallel docking at a bus stop is the
entry and exit distance required. At a typical roadside bus stop, a
conventional 12m European standard bus requires a minimum
overall clearance of 37m of unimpeded access
(see Figure 7.28);
an articulated bus needs 49m. Vehicles parked or loading
adjacent to the bus stop can result in buses failing to achieve
parallel docking or having to stop too far from the kerb, requiring
passengers to step into the carriageway to board and alight.
This is the Department of Transport's own recommendation,which I suggest is more featured in omission rather than actuality ?
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21-10-2018, 21:37   #49
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Perhaps you might reflect on the generalization regarding individual Busdrivers (Senior or not),as it really does little to add to the current thread.

If you are offering an opinion on Centre Door useage as a passenger,well and good,but a Busdrivers opinion of "Perfectly Safe" and your own,may well differ for perfectly valid reasons,even if these are not visible to you at the point of exit.
I wasn't making a generalisation but from what I have observed it is mostly older drivers who I assume are senior who don't use them. I have also seen drivers whom I would also assume are senior who do use them.

From what I have observed is that there are certain drivers who do not use them as at every single stop they don't use even them even when at these stops most other drivers would use them at a particular stop. So it seems one bus drivers opinion of perectly safe would differ to another bus drivers not just a passengers. I think a tram/train style passenger operated middle door would be the best solution similar to in other cities.
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21-10-2018, 22:12   #50
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I wasn't making a generalisation but from what I have observed it is mostly older drivers who I assume are senior who don't use them. I have also seen drivers whom I would also assume are senior who do use them.

From what I have observed is that there are certain drivers who do not use them as at every single stop they don't use even them even when at these stops most other drivers would use them at a particular stop. So it seems one bus drivers opinion of perectly safe would differ to another bus drivers not just a passengers. I think a tram/train style passenger operated middle door would be the best solution similar to in other cities.
Bus Atha Cliath,in line with policy regarding ageism,have recruited new staff up to 61 years of age,some of them who look it,and some very well preserved.

Looks can,and do decieve,so really should be avoided when generalising.

I would suggest that,as you carry out significant amounts of "observations" across Bus Service provision,it might be more productive were you to provide these to either,Bus Atha Cliath or the NTA,FIRST and then perhaps inform the Board as to their response/s ?
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21-10-2018, 22:17   #51
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I will use double doors once safe.

If a cyclist can fit up then it's not safe.

I've had people hit but on the footpath where if it were to happen on the road where it's not safe I would be in huge trouble.
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21-10-2018, 22:22   #52
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The hybrid VG didn't work out either was very unreliable and ended up going up in flames when it was sold on over in the UK.
Yes, though hybrid tech has certainly come along since then, 3,000 of them running around London, so pretty mature now.

Gas is pretty mature too, with lots running around certain operators for years. Though it would certainly face much steeper infrastructure challenges then hybrid to introduce here.

It will be very interesting to see what we will end up with, certainly interesting times ahead.
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21-10-2018, 22:23   #53
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Control of doors should be taken out of the hands of drivers and given to passengers, like in many other European cities.
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21-10-2018, 22:28   #54
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Originally Posted by punisher5112 View Post
I will use double doors once safe.

If a cyclist can fit up then it's not safe.

I've had people hit but on the footpath where if it were to happen on the road where it's not safe I would be in huge trouble.
Fair enough. As contrary to Aleks point I have also observed drivers using middle doors at stops where I would judge it as unsafe if I were a driver for example most drivers use middle doors on Aston Quay where it is not always safe as a stop.
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21-10-2018, 23:27   #55
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Control of doors should be taken out of the hands of drivers and given to passengers, like in many other European cities.
As long as the driver can override and/or controls the closure (like with the LUAS).. otherwise you'll have buses on certain routes delayed frequently because some scobe was messing or causing trouble (as we saw with the case of a DART recently)

You'd also need to sort out the liability issues or you'll end up with more cases like that girl during the week getting a massive payout for her own reckless/stupid actions on the LUAS.
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22-10-2018, 09:47   #56
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As long as the driver can override and/or controls the closure (like with the LUAS).. otherwise you'll have buses on certain routes delayed frequently because some scobe was messing or causing trouble (as we saw with the case of a DART recently)
Yes, of course with the driver having ability to close the doors, etc.

But you can't build a public transport system around the lowest common denominator, you need to build it for the benefit of the majority.

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You'd also need to sort out the liability issues or you'll end up with more cases like that girl during the week getting a massive payout for her own reckless/stupid actions on the LUAS.
Unfortunately, the reality of the legal system is there is nothing you can do to completely remove liability. In civil court, anyone can sue anyone for any reason, someone can sue you because they don't like the colour of your eyes! That doesn't mean a judge won't laugh it out of court, but there is nothing you can do to completely protect yourself from going to court.

What you can do, is put in place steps that make it less likely that a person who sues you will win. For instance, making the passengers open the rear door themselves would be an example of this, it takes it out of the hands of the driver and puts greater responsibility on the passenger.

Big bright signs on the door saying "caution when leaving, look both ways, mind your step", etc. help too.

Of course cameras which would capture what is happening both inside and out, help too.

The reality is there is no 100% guarantees when it comes to the law, as we can see from that ridiculous Luas case where the drivers are doing everything reasonably that could be expected of them.

However if something ever did happen, it is much more likely that someone would sue Dublin Bus, then the individual driver, as you see from the Luas case. More potential money to be one from DB then some hardworking driver. Then it is down the DB's excellent legal team and the cameras.

Thing is, from a legal perspective, there isn't any difference between the front door and the rear door. A driver can equally be sued if someone fell out the front door as the rear.

BTW I'm actually sort of surprised that the rear door is operated by the driver, it would seem to me to actually put more risk on the driver. What if someone is leaning against the rear door when it is opened and falls out, can the driver see this on a camera inside or are they just blindly opening the doors?

Passenger operated rear doors would actually reduce this risk to the drivers.
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04-11-2018, 21:09   #57
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9 hybrids are to be trialled 3 of each type. Will be based Conyngham Road and will operate on the 25a/b
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04-11-2018, 21:12   #58
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05-11-2018, 11:40   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by punisher5112 View Post
I will use double doors once safe.

If a cyclist can fit up then it's not safe.

I've had people hit but on the footpath where if it were to happen on the road where it's not safe I would be in huge trouble.
As far as cycles are concerned 100% .

But if a passenger took a tumble by their own doing because the middle door was too far of the kerb..
I wonder how much trouble we would get into. Its the unions that seem the push the Only Use When Safe issue. Has it happened before?

Does a passenger really need a kerb to step onto?
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05-11-2018, 16:56   #60
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As far as cycles are concerned 100% .

But if a passenger took a tumble by their own doing because the middle door was too far of the kerb..
I wonder how much trouble we would get into. Its the unions that seem the push the Only Use When Safe issue. Has it happened before?

Does a passenger really need a kerb to step onto?
I have also seen drivers use the middle doors when perhaps the safety element is questionable. Most drivers seem to use nearly all the time in the city centre but less so in the suburbs I find. I've seen a good few drivers use them on Aston Quay for example but not all get right up to the kerb as there's usually other buses blocking up the stop.
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