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21-10-2018, 00:45   #31
Stephen15
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I agree with most of the above. I have mixed feelings about the VTs they are good well built buses but they are not without their flaws. I think it's stupid that such a large bus has only one entrance which is narrow and cramped compared to the SG class which has a good wide entrance and a set of centre doors which does speed up dwell times.

They are getting on a bit now but I think they could still have another year or two in service considering they did have a lighter life than other DB buses of a similar vintage. I do believe the NTA should be more high capacity buses as I do think they are needed. However the introduction the 45 at a 15 minute frequency will add significant additional capacity to the n11 corridor which should take some of the strain off the 145. Also the VTs only take 34 more passengers than a regular double decker but more could definitely be taken by having extra SGs.

Last edited by Stephen15; 21-10-2018 at 00:48.
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21-10-2018, 01:55   #32
Tickityboo
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You say Vt's Only take 34 more passengers than a regular double decker!! So over a 3rd more than an SG which are heaps of junk!! The vts should be kept without question.

Sorry if that post is not clear but that is in response to Stephens post above.

Last edited by Tickityboo; 21-10-2018 at 02:30.
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21-10-2018, 08:23   #33
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The ones going have a narrow front door but the newer ones were widened.

The experience as a driver and a passenger on the vt is a 1,000 times better then anything we have now.

They will be really missed.

I can't see why they couldn't be kept another 5 years.

The ax spews out a lot of smoke where as these vt don't. Obviously they eat tyres as no rear steer and are quite thirsty but they are ideal for the runs they are on.

How are the 75 doing now without them as GA are running it now.

I seen the ones in Japan or China have lights that shine outwards from the rear wheel area to illuminate where the tyres can go.

Extremely good idea.
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21-10-2018, 12:00   #34
Stephen15
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Originally Posted by Tickityboo View Post
You say Vt's Only take 34 more passengers than a regular double decker!! So over a 3rd more than an SG which are heaps of junk!! The vts should be kept without question.

Sorry if that post is not clear but that is in response to Stephens post above.
I was saying that extra capacity in the form of a regular sized double decker would take more than an VT. There would definitely have to be a capacity increase to justify getting rid of the VTs. I wasn't giving a personal opinion on the SGs but think about which would carry more two SGs or one VT.
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21-10-2018, 12:31   #35
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13 years old , high fuel and maintenance costs and would be fully deprecated
13 years old is an arbitrary deadline..

They are extremely reliable and they are perfect for how this network has been set up to cause high volumes on major routes. There are many 39A, 46A, 145 passengers glad they have arrived where an SG would've been full.

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Also the VTs only take 34 more passengers than a regular double decker but more could definitely be taken by having extra SGs.
That's when the VT is full, not that there would only be 34 people waiting for that single decker. You'd have to add on the people the VT turns away when full. It's 60+ more than an SG's capacity if it shows up instead.

Trying to replace buses as well built as the reliable sturdy VT with the 'lightly built' but still high cost likes of GTs and SGs is mad.

Last edited by dfx-; 21-10-2018 at 12:36.
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21-10-2018, 12:40   #36
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Well on another forum, some are saying that the older VT's are experiencing reliability issues. Which being 14 years old now wouldn't be surprising, despite less miles on the clock.

But I was thinking about why it might actually be logical why operators don't want them and why even London Bus don't use tri-axles (beyond the above mentioned trial).

Someone above mentioned you would need 3 regular double deckers to replace 2 tri-axles, which is true. But I've been thinking that might actually be preferable to operators!

Think about it, the tri-axles are much more expensive to buy then regular double deckers, they would be the most expensive bus in your fleet, yet they are also your least used bus, you only use them on-peak, because off-peak their capacity isn't needed and they guzzle fuel.

So from an operators perspective, they are a bit of a waste, expensive to buy, expensive to maintain, expensive to fuel, but not used much!

I haven't seen prices on new tri-axles (there are very few, which is telling), but I suspect you could actually buy 3 SG buses for the price of 2 modern tri-axles. So there is no real money saving there, and 3 SG's would offer greater flexibility.

Yes, you would have the cost of an extra driver, but that would be offset by lower fuel and maintenance costs of a SG or similar.

But also 3 SG's would also have more capacity then 2 VT's (255 people for 3 SG's, versus 238 for 2 VT's conservatively speaking) so extra passengers would go towards paying for an extra driver. And you have the advantage of greater frequency on the route.

Of course I get why drivers like the VT's why it seems better that it can take more people. But sometimes if you step back and look at it from an operators perspective, you might see reasons why higher capacity vehicle isn't the better option.

Look at BE and Aircoach, BE use double decker coaches on some routes, then look at Aircoach, all single decker coaches, when they are busy, they just send a second single decker, so obviously it isn't a straight forward decision.
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21-10-2018, 12:46   #37
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That's when the VT is full, not that there would only be 34 people waiting for that single decker. You'd have to add on the people the VT turns away when full. It's 60+ more than an SG's capacity if it shows up instead.
These VT's are 119 capacity, the SG is 85, only 34 difference.

And 3 SG's carry 30 more then 2 VT.

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Trying to replace buses as well built as the reliable sturdy VT with the 'lightly built' but still high cost likes of GTs and SGs is mad.
This is down to environmental reasons. More modern buses of all types (including tri-axles) are lighter in order to meet much stricter emission standards, Euro 6.

You know, so we don't have buses blowing cancer causing PM's and NOX emissions into our faces on our city streets.
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21-10-2018, 12:58   #38
Stephen15
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Originally Posted by dfx- View Post
That's when the VT is full, not that there would only be 34 people waiting for that single decker. You'd have to add on the people the VT turns away when full. It's 60+ more than an SG's capacity if it shows up instead.

Trying to replace buses as well built as the reliable sturdy VT with the 'lightly built' but still high cost likes of GTs and SGs is mad.
But two SGs can carry more than one VT. It's bit like the fact that buying two regular sized boxes of corn flakes is likely better value for money than buying one jumbo pack.

Another problem with VTs is their lack of flexibility as certain routes can't have to their large size and they can't take certain tight corners whereas a regular sized bus can work on any route.
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21-10-2018, 13:07   #39
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124 is the number a vt can carry.... I've had many more on then that over the years.

Last bus, concerts you name it.

They are used all the time now but all wouldn't be out at weekends but they do put them on more then the 1st few years.

I will honestly miss them.

Seriously powerful, great feedback from steering and just feel solid.

The newer batch aren't anywhere near as powerful from 21 up to 70 nearly sure it's 70 as donnybrook got a batch up to model 35 a few years back.


Price tag on an SG is around €350k
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21-10-2018, 13:20   #40
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124 is the number a vt can carry.... I've had many more on then that over the years.
119 for the 2005 VT's that they are currently getting rid off. The 2007 VT's are 124

The SG's can take a lot more then their plate too, the capacity number on the plate isn't really reality as most know and changes over the years (I think different years SG's have had different numbers despite not otherwise changing!).

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Price tag on an SG is around €350k
I know and a modern triaxle would cost a lot more. Specially the one being trialled in London, since it is based on a coach body, a hybrid and has a 40kwh battery. Also the fact that so few triaxles are built nowadays, it would be pretty much custom build.
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21-10-2018, 13:25   #41
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As I said they can hold more then that.

Sg 1st batch have a lower number then the later ones but absolutely no change in design.

It will be interesting to see what style hybrid we will be getting.

I hope they come before I go as would like to see what they are like.
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21-10-2018, 14:24   #42
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Yes choosing the type and size of vehicle is not easy and you have to balance cost with demand and many other issues.

You can certainly go too far in the other direction too. Cork City in the past was a terrible example of this. The single deckers were completely unsuitable. But then you have to remember that the real problem in Cork was the combination of small vehicles and poor frequency. It was infuriating in Cork seeing a full bus drive by you, because you knew the next bus will be 30 or 40 minutes on many routes!

That is less of an issue in Dublin on routes with high frequency. At my local route, buses often pass by full, but it doesn't bother me much, as I know there will be another one by in 2 or 3 minutes.

Remember the capacity of a route is frequency x capacity of each vehicle. As long as they are replacing the VT's with more buses/frequency, it shouldn't make much if any difference.

Hell massive Chinese cities get by with just single decker buses, the difference is they just have massive numbers of these buses.
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21-10-2018, 14:41   #43
Stephen15
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It will be interesting to see what style hybrid we will be getting.

I hope they come before I go as would like to see what they are like.
It wouldn't surprise me if it's something from Wrightbus similar to the SGs with hybrid transmission. I heard they were meant to trial some this year but I've yet to hear any news on that since.
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21-10-2018, 20:37   #44
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It wouldn't surprise me if it's something from Wrightbus similar to the SGs with hybrid transmission. I heard they were meant to trial some this year but I've yet to hear any news on that since.
There has also been a lot of rumours that we might get biogas buses instead of hybrids!

Seems strange though, it is pretty unusual for us to do something so radically different from the UK.
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21-10-2018, 20:44   #45
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They had a gas bus back in 97 it never worked and had to be filled at the docks.
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