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19-10-2018, 17:33   #16
_Kaiser_
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Is this another "plate" decision that's driving this, or is there any reason these are being sold if they've had a (relatively) easier life than comparable AV's of that vintage?

I know they're supposed to be hard on tyres. Can't imagine the diesel is cheap, but is it a decision that makes sense given their capacity until a better replacement (like maybe that new Tri-Ax bk refers to) is found?
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19-10-2018, 17:55   #17
Stephen15
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Interesting, Go Ahead in London are trailing a hybrid tri-axle bus for London Bus:

https://cbwmagazine.com/london-to-tr...i-axle-decker/

Looks nice, though only one stairs.

If it works out, perhaps their is hope for new tri-axles for us in a few years if GA bring across their experience.

Thing is London Bus don't currently operate any tri-axles, so clearly they aren't a most for a big city operator.

BTW, very interesting and cool, I wish all DB buses had this brilliant feature:
I have heard they have problems. They sound like a downgrade on an LT (New Routemaster) as they only have three doors. From what I believe TfL want to replace the LTs due to the amount of fare evasion that's happening on them as people are getting without paying on the back and middle doors. Tfl want drivers to take more responsibility for fare evasion from what I believe however that doesn't seem to be much of a worry for DB or the NTA.

The problems with these buses are mainly from the fact that they are designed with coach bodywork rather than as a city bus. Plenty of the features in the drivers cab are out of reach of the driver which is a safety. Also the doors on these look pretty narrow.
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19-10-2018, 18:01   #18
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Is this another "plate" decision that's driving this, or is there any reason these are being sold if they've had a (relatively) easier life than comparable AV's of that vintage?

I know they're supposed to be hard on tyres. Can't imagine the diesel is cheap, but is it a decision that makes sense given their capacity until a better replacement (like maybe that new Tri-Ax bk refers to) is found?
The NTA had intimated that they might consider relaxing their current 14 year limit for PSO vehicles.
However it appears that they decided that there is enough funding for shiny new machines,even if these will come nowhere near directly replacing the VT's.

These machines will sell rapidly,and re-enter service equally so,in the hands of a private operator,less constrained by the wishes of eager young degree holding laptop bearers.

There is little indication as yet,that the NTA allocate any more priority to effective Bus design,than they do to preserving the sanctity of the Official Languages Act
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19-10-2018, 18:08   #19
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Is this another "plate" decision that's driving this, or is there any reason these are being sold if they've had a (relatively) easier life than comparable AV's of that vintage?

I know they're supposed to be hard on tyres. Can't imagine the diesel is cheap, but is it a decision that makes sense given their capacity until a better replacement (like maybe that new Tri-Ax bk refers to) is found?
I'm guessing it's because these buses are now approaching 14 years old.
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19-10-2018, 18:50   #20
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I'm guessing it's because these buses are now approaching 14 years old.
My point is that if they are (relatively - by bus standards) low mileage and still a lot of life in them then the question should have been asked whether they should be disposed of now rather than kept going another while if the capacity differences over the newer models made sense to do so.

But then, this is a country obsessed with reg plates and where anything over 10 years or 100k km becomes a obsolete deathtrap, so not that surprising really.

As I've said on this forum before, it makes little sense to me to be disposing of perfectly good vehicles that are still then in daily use elsewhere "just cause" - and I don't buy that fancier front-ends and WiFi are a worthwhile trade for the expense of a new bus.
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19-10-2018, 18:53   #21
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Donnybrook has 15 07 ones
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19-10-2018, 21:43   #22
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My point is that if they are (relatively - by bus standards) low mileage and still a lot of life in them then the question should have been asked whether they should be disposed of now rather than kept going another while if the capacity differences over the newer models made sense to do so.

But then, this is a country obsessed with reg plates and where anything over 10 years or 100k km becomes a obsolete deathtrap, so not that surprising really.

As I've said on this forum before, it makes little sense to me to be disposing of perfectly good vehicles that are still then in daily use elsewhere "just cause" - and I don't buy that fancier front-ends and WiFi are a worthwhile trade for the expense of a new bus.
While I generally quite like the VTs as a bus and I think their lives could have extended and DB could have blended their 14 year rule as these buses don't have as much miles on the clock as other buses of a similar vintage. I like them but they are not without their flaws. I can see why the NTA want dual door buses as improve dwell times and even more so with BC infrastructure in place which would allow them be used at all stops.

They should be replaced with similar sized with two or preferably three sets of doors. I like the VTs I remember when they were first introduced and thinking they were great improvement on the buses that were in service at that time.

You also have to remember that new buses are more fuel efficient and more economically viable to maintain than keeping older buses on the road that's the main reason they are being withdrawn.
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19-10-2018, 22:40   #23
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I would hope one or two are preserved as they are one of the more unique and somewhat iconic buses to operate in Dublin over the years.
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19-10-2018, 22:59   #24
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While I generally quite like the VTs as a bus and I think their lives could have extended and DB could have blended their 14 year rule as these buses don't have as much miles on the clock as other buses of a similar vintage. I like them but they are not without their flaws. I can see why the NTA want dual door buses as improve dwell times and even more so with BC infrastructure in place which would allow them be used at all stops.

They should be replaced with similar sized with two or preferably three sets of doors. I like the VTs I remember when they were first introduced and thinking they were great improvement on the buses that were in service at that time.

You also have to remember that new buses are more fuel efficient and more economically viable to maintain than keeping older buses on the road that's the main reason they are being withdrawn.
Stops here are badly designed (designed being a generous description) for the two doors, no way would 3 door vehicles be considered!

Shame the VT's are being phased out. Such an illogical decision that will leave a lot more passengers standing like idiots as a jammed SG passes them by, discouraging bus usage. But the NTA don't seem to be too bothered about the
actual reality of using the services they ostensibly administer.
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19-10-2018, 23:24   #25
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Terrible decision, but inevitable. Great buses.
13 years old , high fuel and maintenance costs and would be fully deprecated
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19-10-2018, 23:25   #26
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Stops here are badly designed (designed being a generous description) for the two doors, no way would 3 door vehicles be considered!

Shame the VT's are being phased out. Such an illogical decision that will leave a lot more passengers standing like idiots as a jammed SG passes them by, discouraging bus usage. But the NTA don't seem to be too bothered about the
actual reality of using the services they ostensibly administer.
Hopefully Bus Connects sorts things out some stops are bad particularly around the city centre I'm not denying that . While some drivers are great there is a cohort of mainly senior drivers who refuse to use middle doors even if it is perfectly safe to do so.

If the proper infrastructure is put no reason why we can't have three door buses sure even London manages them despite the fact the new Routemasters were a complete waste of money.
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19-10-2018, 23:26   #27
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Just curious but how much would one of these be worth?
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19-10-2018, 23:36   #28
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Just curious but how much would one of these be worth?
I wouldn't be sure but it would probably be a slightly higher amount than a regular DB bus up for sale. I'd be interested to see what kind of operators would be interested in these perhaps it would be the likes of those running concert shuttles and that kind of thing.
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19-10-2018, 23:43   #29
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I'd say the likes of Swords Express or Ashbourne Connect would be interested in them.
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20-10-2018, 21:51   #30
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The VT's are a great asset to Dublin Bus. They are fast, reliable & are wonderful for easing capacity issues. I still think they badly needed to stay in Dublin. This has to be one of the most unnecessary things that Dublin Bus has done to try & run high capacity routes in Dublin. To get rid of high capacity buses when coming at a time when the population in Dublin is increasing is an odd decision to make. It does not give Dublin Bus any signals that they are to escape some suffering because of this decision. The commuters will not like this move when it start to give an affect on their most used high capacity route.

I still think the NTA have made a serious error in not allowing funding for new tri-axle buses to come in for Dublin Bus. If they were really serious in assuming that retaining the same level of capacity for these routes along the N11 will succeed with the loss of the VT's overtime; they could be in for a big shock. It is currently one of the biggest QBC's being used in Dublin. We're looking at a future which is going to be fully dependent on 2 axle double deck buses going along the N11 all the time. The future of people using Dublin Bus along this area is not to become rosy. If all those VT's were gone by tomorrow; commuters would not be happy with that outcome at all before their commute comes in Monday morning.

The VT's will be sadly missed by people when they inevitably all go off from Dublin Bus fleet altogether. When that time comes to us; it won't be a easy switch to permanent use for using 2 axle double deck buses. GAI have done it already with taking over the 75 two weeks ago even though when DB were using some of them on that route as they were a great help to ease capacity during the morning & evening peak times. It was remarked here on boards recently that the 75 with GAI had problems with suffering big delays in the mornings with traffic in Dublin. When large numbers of people begin to accumulate at bus stops in periods of heavy traffic when GAI are running the 75 at that crucial peak period of the day; it then starts to become a big potential problem if was not addressed in future.

If people living along high capacity route corridors find that they are being compromised with using smaller double decks on the N11. Their use of the car could turn into quite a domino effect in decreasing usage for buses in that area and this will be happening before BusConnects is eventually implemented in Dublin. Bus passengers numbers are growing in Dublin for a good few years. In a hypothetical sense if BusConnects here gets delayed again by the NTA until after 2020; what would bus usage be like by then along the N11? What would you think will happen if bus usage along this area was going through this scenario?
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