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26-01-2018, 14:44   #46
monument
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Originally Posted by hmmm View Post
It would be helpful if the planners, and those commentating, would avoid being so pompous about what is happening and show a bit more humility.

No professional involved in planning has apologised to bus (and Green line) passengers for what has happened. Changes are being rammed through in an attempt to alleviate the issues. Bus passengers are being told that they have to suck it up because apparently the needs of the LUAS supersede all other forms of public transport.
I’m open to correction here, but, based on what I know...

The problem is that you seem to be directing that at the people who are cleaning up the mess and those who are defending them.

The main people who created the mess were politicians, the RPA/TII and Dublin Bus for allowing Luas Cross City to be planned without accepting the wider impacts or without objecting to that because that’s what the department told them to do.

They buried their heads in the sand — maybe they were right? Because people who are sticking their heads out to fix the problem or those defending them are getting the slack now.


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What a dreadful line, what you might expect out of a corporate meeting or an NTA flyer.

George's Quay is the last place you'd send buses to keep them moving if that is actually what concerned them (it doesn't)
What’s the alternative?

Keep everything on College Green? That’d be worse for everyone, including bus passages.

Stop trams on a newly opened route? That’s not going to happen.

At some point we have to start being realistic, even if some people see that as being dreadful.


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Brilliant idea. Route more buses through the Tara st blockade thats so utterly choked up these days that traffic barely moves and big vehicles constantly block up the yellow box. c_c
Bus lanes, bus routing fixes, and generally more restrictions on cars entering the area was always going to be needed. Even if the RPA/TII were in denial.
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26-01-2018, 15:39   #47
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So the 25a/b will go down Tara Street (Officially) from Monday.

I wish I had the time to go through the timetable to see how many other routes will still use College Green including those those going up and down Dame Street. I'd say it's a hell of a lot of buses!

Not enough space for everyone is there? Something's got to give.
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26-01-2018, 20:06   #48
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So the 25a/b will go down Tara Street (Officially) from Monday.

I wish I had the time to go through the timetable to see how many other routes will still use College Green including those those going up and down Dame Street. I'd say it's a hell of a lot of buses!

Not enough space for everyone is there? Something's got to give.
Routing buses from different parts of the city into the same places isn't going to be sustainable, much and all as commuters in the GDA allegedly don't want to change enroute.

The only way around this mess is to reconfigure bus routes where trams and trains already run into feeders for them and to create drop off points near the city centre for pax to change to a bus, tram or train that will bring them closest to where they want to go. All one fare on one ticket.

Connections then must be so frequent that there is no usual Dublin farting around waiting for a relatively infrequent connection. Finite road space needs to be allocated according to need.
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26-01-2018, 20:22   #49
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All one fare on one ticket.
Seems to work well for most of Europe - around a euro or so for 60 mins of travel on buses, trams, underground, trains..., so not likely to ever happen here
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27-01-2018, 19:03   #50
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The only way around this mess is to reconfigure bus routes where trams and trains already run into feeders for them and to create drop off points near the city centre for pax to change to a bus, tram or train that will bring them closest to where they want to go. All one fare on one ticket.
The Luas network is a toy system with 2 lines that looks modern + nice, and presents a certain image for Dublin but barely is able for what it needs to carry now. It could not handle a load of outlying bus routes feeding into it I think; perhaps some one can correct me? For that idea we need a load more new public transport infrastructure in Dublin, which is decades away being optimistic.
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27-01-2018, 20:40   #51
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Is there any works taking place this weekend? What are the council doing to improve bus prioritisation on the impacted routes?
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27-01-2018, 21:07   #52
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Originally Posted by monument View Post
I
Bus lanes, bus routing fixes, and generally more restrictions on cars entering the area was always going to be needed. Even if the RPA/TII were in denial.
There is no additional restricting of cars, though is there?

This is not a fix, it is just moving the problem away from the LUAS and onto more bus commuters

The dangers of having a poorly thought out Cinderella project that must be a PR success no matter what the cost
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27-01-2018, 22:24   #53
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There is no additional restricting of cars, though is there?

This is not a fix, it is just moving the problem away from the LUAS and onto more bus commuters

The dangers of having a poorly thought out Cinderella project that must be a PR success no matter what the cost
To me this is the tug of war between the NTA on one side who understand what needs to be done to make Dublin a good place for public transport (and who are the ones making the bus route changes), and DCC (or politicians in general) who are only interested in protecting car parks and motoring groups.

Otherwise, we'd have north and south Quays around O'Connell Bridge fully public transport only, Parliament Street would be two way, and there would be many more legitimate ways to reroute buses to improve service.
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27-01-2018, 22:54   #54
XPS_Zero
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Originally Posted by fly_agaric View Post
The Luas network is a toy system with 2 lines that looks modern + nice, and presents a certain image for Dublin but barely is able for what it needs to carry now. It could not handle a load of outlying bus routes feeding into it I think; perhaps some one can correct me? For that idea we need a load more new public transport infrastructure in Dublin, which is decades away being optimistic.
That's because DU and Metro were meant to spread out the pressure and prepare for huge population increases and GDP growth that we knew then was coming, and is now starting to arrive. The great recession interrupted this and gave us breathing room, and building them would have been a great stimulus program for the crash era but we never did it, so now were playing catch up once again just like the Tiger years, EXACT same mistake all over again - booming economy putting pressure on services only this time we don't have the excuse that it was a surprise how well things were doing, the global economy has been recovering since 2014 we should have been on this at least then (or way earlier in a stimulus plan as I said) but didn't, and complacently pat ourselves on the back for a minor extension to Luas which just won't cut it on it's own.

We need Metro and DU, even if we start digging now they're 5/7 years away, what if we have another Tiger era boom in that time? It's hard NOW to get on a Luas at rush hour, DARTS are getting that way too. We were stupid not to build them as a public works program during the recession but we urgently need to catch up with this now. Luas can ease pressure in the short term with longer trams and IE with 10 min DARTs but that is just a short term pressure valve
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28-01-2018, 00:25   #55
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Bit off topic but what happened with the current underground rail tunnels in the city?
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28-01-2018, 22:32   #56
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Bit off topic but what happened with the current underground rail tunnels in the city?
There's only one, and it carries a few trains on a meandering loop around the city.


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Otherwise, we'd have north and south Quays around O'Connell Bridge fully public transport only, Parliament Street would be two way, and there would be many more legitimate ways to reroute buses to improve service.
I'd make Westland Row PT and bikes only too
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29-01-2018, 00:02   #57
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To me this is the tug of war between the NTA on one side who understand what needs to be done to make Dublin a good place for public transport (and who are the ones making the bus route changes), and DCC (or politicians in general) who are only interested in protecting car parks and motoring groups.
Or to put it another way, you have an appointed NTA with a narrow focus (public transport only) and a single source of funds (DoT) vs DCC who are responsible for everything in Dublin, not just transport, who are elected by people who care about a variety of issues, not just public transport and who get their funds from a variety of sources including a bunch of massive rates paying businesses who feel that vehicle access is essential to their continued profitability.

Running a city is a careful balancing act between doing what you feel is best (not all councillors agree on this), doing what the permanent staff recommend and doing what will get you or your party re-elected.
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29-01-2018, 00:22   #58
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Or to put it another way, you have an appointed NTA with a narrow focus (public transport only) and a single source of funds (DoT) vs DCC who are responsible for everything in Dublin, not just transport, who are elected by people who care about a variety of issues, not just public transport and who get their funds from a variety of sources including a bunch of massive rates paying businesses who feel that vehicle access is essential to their continued profitability.

Running a city is a careful balancing act between doing what you feel is best (not all councillors agree on this), doing what the permanent staff recommend and doing what will get you or your party re-elected.
Yes, well the key is that the council should be intelligent enough to understand that the feelings of those businesses are incorrect and short-sighted. DCC should be thinking and planning medium to long term, where improvements to public transport will ultimately be very beneficial to those same businesses.
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29-01-2018, 08:30   #59
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Early days but my commute was much faster today
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29-01-2018, 14:21   #60
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Early days but my commute was much faster today
Good to hear since traffic was a ****ing joke all over the place this morning. What route are you on if you don't mind me asking
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