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21-08-2017, 21:40   #61
LeinsterDub
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I still dont know how this is going to go through with the unions.

How do you take a marked in route off one driver let alone a 100 drivers without an all out strike?
They are payed to drive not comment on the colour of bus or the routes. Once their terms and conditions don't change they should be told to drive the bus or we'll find someone else who's willing to

Last edited by LeinsterDub; 21-08-2017 at 21:45.
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21-08-2017, 21:42   #62
brokenarms
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They are played to drive not comment on the colour of bus or the routes. Once their terms and conditions don't change they should be told to drive the bus or we'll find someone else who's willing to
But their T&Cs will change.

Marked in drivers.
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21-08-2017, 21:51   #63
LeinsterDub
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But their T&Cs will change.

Marked in drivers.
How will they change if they get the same starts, lunches and finishes?
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21-08-2017, 21:51   #64
Stephen15
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I still dont know how this is going to go through with the unions.

How do you take a marked in route off one driver let alone a 100 drivers without an all out strike?

Even painting the busses to look the same as go ahead will be an issue.

I tried to explain Bus connect to a marked in long term driver last week, and he laughed at me.
I cant see it happen anytime soon. I hope it does happen, but I know how resistant to change people can be.

There will be lots of friction.
I assume you are a DB driver.

If so can I ask you a question about how the marking in system works. Are drivers who are marked in ever moved from one route to another from time to time? Say a route is discountinued just like many routes were during network direct what would happen drivers who were marked in those routes, would be marked in on a different route or do they revert back to being spare?

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21-08-2017, 22:06   #65
brokenarms
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I assume you are a DB driver.

If so can I ask you a question about how the marking in system works. Are drivers who are marked in ever moved from one route to another from time to time? Say a route is discountinued just like many routes were during network direct what would happen drivers who were marked in those routes, would be marked in on a different route or do they revert back to being spare?
As marking in is at least 8 years away for me, I cant answer that.

But i know they drive the same route each day unless they swap or do overtime.
They also know what time they start for a year plus in advance.
Or until the timetable changes.
Which in its self is a draw out process of rejection until its voted for.

A spare driver (me) gets what ever is left on all routes.

In fairness. It what nearly all drivers aspire to achieve. Being marked in.
Just like you know you will be at work from 9-5 Monday Friday.

If that was taking from you. It would be unfair.

I am very open to correction from another driver here. I dont pay much attention to it TBH.
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21-08-2017, 22:12   #66
punisher5112
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I assume you are a DB driver.

If so can I ask you a question about how the marking in system works. Are drivers who are marked in ever moved from one route to another from time to time? Say a route is discountinued just like many routes were during network direct what would happen drivers who were marked in those routes, would be marked in on a different route or do they revert back to being spare?

They would go back spare or may change route by applying themselves.

It happened years ago when the 45 was axed.

They keep their hours for a few months but then revert back spare unless marking in on another route occurs.
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21-08-2017, 22:14   #67
brokenarms
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They would go back spare or may change route by applying themselves.

It happened years ago when the 45 was axed.

They keep their hours for a few months but then revert back spare unless marking in on another route occurs.
Did they get any sort of buy out?
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21-08-2017, 22:20   #68
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Did they get any sort of buy out?
I believe there was a small amount given for the removal or major change.

I can't comment fully as I wouldn't know exact amount.
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22-08-2017, 02:05   #69
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Also if this NTA plan goes ahead whats going to happen to current DB staff such as bus inspectors, revenue protection officers and controllers. Are they all going to become NTA employees or is Go Ahead going to provide its own (not exactly intergrated transport if thats the case).

There will surely have to be some sort of TFL style iBus system but it will be a tall order to get current DB controllers and inspectors to transfer over to the NTA which could lead to industrial unrest. DB revenue protection is currently made up of inspectors and drivers who have been repositioned as ticket inspectors.

After 2019 when all three CIE companies and Transdev's are contract is up for renewal is the NTA going to set up its own revenue protection unit for all operators.

This all seems like a whole heap of trouble just to tender out 10% of DB routes. They could have gotten DB to operate the routes and saved both money and trouble as the potential for union trouble is pretty high. Whether you like it or not unions in CIE are powerful and aren't going anywhere anytime soon.
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22-08-2017, 03:08   #70
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i would imagine go-ahead will be expected to employ all the staff it needs to operate the service including revenue protection, inspectors and so on. i can't imagine the NTA will set up their own revenue protection units or other grades.
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22-08-2017, 09:28   #71
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It will be a tall order to get current DB controllers and inspectors to transfer over to the NTA which could lead to industrial unrest. [...] This all seems like a whole heap of trouble just to tender out 10% of DB routes. They could have gotten DB to operate the routes and saved both money and trouble as the potential for union trouble is pretty high. Whether you like it or not unions in CIE are powerful and aren't going anywhere anytime soon.
I can't speak for the NTA but I think you've answered your own question. Why do the NTA want to split up the operation of buses in Dublin across multiple operators? Because the unions are so powerful that change is a pain in the ass for everyone. Network Direct stretched on for years because the unions had to be consulted about everything and vetoed lots of changes. Bus Connects will likely be the same. What you're suggesting is that we should keep giving our lunch money to the school bully because he's powerful and not going anywhere.
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22-08-2017, 11:32   #72
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"marking in" is up there with some of the most archaic and illogical work practices out there. Take the more experienced drivers, give them unchanging work; give the complicated stuff needing advanced knowledge to the greenhorns. Needs to end entirely.
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22-08-2017, 12:24   #73
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I can't speak for the NTA but I think you've answered your own question. Why do the NTA want to split up the operation of buses in Dublin across multiple operators? Because the unions are so powerful that change is a pain in the ass for everyone. Network Direct stretched on for years because the unions had to be consulted about everything and vetoed lots of changes. Bus Connects will likely be the same. What you're suggesting is that we should keep giving our lunch money to the school bully because he's powerful and not going anywhere.
But unions are likely going to object and make the tender process a misery for the NTA. Unions will more than likely still be there in Go Ahead so it won't be much different to Dublin Bus.
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22-08-2017, 12:26   #74
punisher5112
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"marking in" is up there with some of the most archaic and illogical work practices out there. Take the more experienced drivers, give them unchanging work; give the complicated stuff needing advanced knowledge to the greenhorns. Needs to end entirely.
Rubbish....


Its there for all its actually archaic it now takes so long...


Drivers were inticed in on the method of marking in would happen at 5 years or before.

I agree the whole thing needs changing but its ridiculous to think its okay to say at 20, 30 or more years that you don't know what you will be working but wait don't you know your days off so suck it up.


Its been mentioned already how would you or many like if say you are a 9-5 working day where tomorrow they say we will let you know the day before the time you start and finish.

You can't plan a thing or say you definitely would be around.
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22-08-2017, 12:30   #75
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i would imagine go-ahead will be expected to employ all the staff it needs to operate the service including revenue protection, inspectors and so on. i can't imagine the NTA will set up their own revenue protection units or other grades.
Not exactly intergrated transport is it?
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