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21-03-2006, 23:40   #16
Victor
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Originally Posted by Transport21 Fan
Can you only imagine the "stress" the unions will have over that.
Hmmmm, it would require fewer trains ....

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What's the story with the new Dublin-Cork half pointy coaches then?
It's OK, photos of ministers will only ever be taken at the pointy end.

Last edited by Victor; 21-03-2006 at 23:42.
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22-03-2006, 09:31   #17
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As a former rail lobbist, I simply could no longer defend a semi-state company which brings in projects "on time and under budget" and then after the initial launch with Dr John Lynch and some Minister waving to the media, they fail to fullfill their promise. New gear and kit is not enough.

The Enterprise is a classic example of this. We were told it would be a world class service and indeed Barry Kenny still uses the term to highlight the magnificent status of the Enterprise. The reality is the Enterprise is mediocre at best and has carried surprisingly few passengers in the years it has been around because it is too slow and unreliable. The new gear and kit failed to deliver.

No doubt this latest announcement, will on a superfical level seem great and will of course come in "on time and under budget", but in terms of providing the service, will like all of Irish Rail's other products fail miserably. Naturally there will be expensive TV ads showing trains pointy on both ends (when they are are not) and Craig Doyle walking into a station which does not exsist in this country (let alone on the IE network).

The Interconnector likewise will fail to deliver it promise, just like the Passenger Information Systems on trains and stations which get installed at great expense and are either switched off or not connected up after three years. Just like the "inter-City" 2900 on the Sligo route...just like all the new gear and kit which CIE engineers love to order and CIE management place into service with great fanfare before the unions operate when then feel like it.

For too long CIE railways has used this "on time and under budget" clause to distract from the real truth that they run a terrible service. After the money has been spent on the flashy new kit and gear it all falls apart in the most shoddy and badly managed way.

Unless that changes - the RPA and privatisation is the answer.

Last edited by Transport21 Fan; 22-03-2006 at 15:29.
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22-03-2006, 12:28   #18
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Best post in the thread so far. Words of wisdom.


Take another example of stupid incompetance.

On the Cork-Cobh train there were a group of Americans last summer. They were looking at one of the ads in huge letters on paper on the wall of the train.

"TAKE THIS TRAIN TO THE AIRPORT!!!! DART TO DUBLIN AIRPORT JUST €5!" or something like that with a different price.

Yes those American tourists did geniunly think that the Cork-Cobh train did go to the airport.

Usually I'd say this is American dumbass, but this case I reckon its more CIE being a bunch of morons to put a sign advertising the Dart to Dublin Airport on a small suburban rail link in Cork.
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22-03-2006, 12:54   #19
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Perhaps the train will now ACTUALLY BE ON TIME, rather than arriving in Cork half an hour late each time.



2 1/2 hours to get to Cork on the train? Takes at least 3.
Three hours ten minutes yesterday. 20 minutes late.

In fairness, the express 2hr 30 mins service is usually on time.
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22-03-2006, 13:34   #20
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Usually I'd say this is American dumbass, but this case I reckon its more CIE being a bunch of morons to put a sign advertising the Dart to Dublin Airport on a small suburban rail link in Cork.
To top it off the DART doesn't even go to the airport, you could get a bus from one or two stations. False advertising me thinks.
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22-03-2006, 21:57   #21
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About time they electrified the third world Dublin-Cork line while they are at it. The country’s transportation infrastructure is more open to oil risks than any other in Europe.

km of rail network electrified:

Ireland 55
Luxembourg 262
Norway 2,518
Switzerland 3,140
Sweden 7,644
Skovakia 2,059
Latvia 258
Denmark 613
Austria 3,545
Slovenia 504

http://www.uic.asso.fr/download.php/stats/synth2004.xls

Electric is faster, quieter, accellerates faster out of a station, is smog-free, and can run on wind, wave, tidal, photovoltaic, hydro, gas, oil, coal, etc

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22-03-2006, 22:04   #22
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Electric is faster, quieter, accellerates faster out of a station, is smog-free, and can run on wind, wave, tidal, photovoltaic, hydro, gas, oil, coal, etc
What do they use to generate electricity in this country?
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22-03-2006, 23:16   #23
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What do they use to generate electricity in this country?
According to Duncan on the RTE environment programme this evening we get 3% of our electricity from wind! DART is gas powered by Energia(Viridian). But Airtricity could bid when the next contract comes up.

http://www.rte.ie/business/2005/0218/energia.html
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22-03-2006, 23:23   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by probe
km of rail network electrified:

Ireland 55
Luxembourg 262
Holy crap !! Luxemburg is so small it could probably fit into half an average Irish county ...

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According to Duncan on the RTE environment programme this evening we get 3% of our electricity from wind! DART is gas powered by Energia(Viridian). But Airtricity could bid when the next contract comes up.
I'd say there's a good bit coming from Hydro-electric stations as well.
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22-03-2006, 23:27   #25
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I'd say there's a good bit coming from Hydro-electric stations as well.
I think we're about 95% fossil-fuelled (according to the Airtricity website) so no more than 2% hydro in that case.
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23-03-2006, 00:15   #26
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Modern diesel powered units can match electric units in acceleration, a voyager diesel unit does 0-60 mph in 60 seconds, its electric cousin the Pendelino has the same stats. Just to rub it in the fastest (non international) station to station timing in the UK is a diesel powered train running on a line which is electrified.

Unless you have a serious high frequency service electrification is not justifiable, the service frequency Port Laois Cork is at most 2 trains per hour from next year, you could get away with single track beyond Limerick Junc. It gets worse the bulk of trains on the Dublin Cork are not going to Cork there going to Tralee, Limerick. Galway, Westport, Waterford thus few could operate electrically making the investment rather inefficient.

What people don't realise that in energy used there is little to choose between electric and diesel, power stations are at best 40% efficient so while an electric train in terms of energy consumed is more efficient the amount of actual energy used to create the electricity is roughly the same as a diesel powered train.

Unless we come up with a way of generating electricity without relying on fossil fuels at a cost lower than fossil fuels diesel will rule

The game plan in Irish Rail is to watch what the UK do as the UK operators are in the final throws of specifying a 125 mph non titling diesel powered train, it effectively a HST

They have no plan its just the usual pr rubbish to make it sound like they are doing something, a basic bit of focused track work at handful of locations would chop times for little cost
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23-03-2006, 02:11   #27
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Originally Posted by MarkoP11
Unless you have a serious high frequency service electrification is not justifiable, the service frequency Port Laois Cork is at most 2 trains per hour from next year, you could get away with single track beyond Limerick Junc. It gets worse the bulk of trains on the Dublin Cork are not going to Cork there going to Tralee, Limerick. Galway, Westport, Waterford thus few could operate electrically making the investment rather inefficient.
When DART was being electrified, the economics were 30 trains per day. I don't know if that was one- or two-way.
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23-03-2006, 09:33   #28
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Originally Posted by probe
About time they electrified the third world Dublin-Cork line while they are at it.

km of rail network electrified:

Ireland 55
Luxembourg 262
Norway 2,518
Switzerland 3,140
Sweden 7,644
Skovakia 2,059
Latvia 258
Denmark 613
Austria 3,545
Slovenia 504
...
India 16,000 (of the total 63,028 km). ( source)

Just thought I would point that out!
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23-03-2006, 09:41   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by probe
About time they electrified the third world Dublin-Cork line while they are at it. The country’s transportation infrastructure is more open to oil risks than any other in Europe.

km of rail network electrified:

Ireland 55
Luxembourg 262
Norway 2,518
Switzerland 3,140
Sweden 7,644
Skovakia 2,059
Latvia 258
Denmark 613
Austria 3,545
Slovenia 504

http://www.uic.asso.fr/download.php/stats/synth2004.xls

Electric is faster, quieter, accellerates faster out of a station, is smog-free, and can run on wind, wave, tidal, photovoltaic, hydro, gas, oil, coal, etc

probe
That's a truly shocking statistic.

We should really electrify the Cork-Dublin and Dublin-Galway lines as a national priority. When the motorways to Dublin are fully built shedloads of train passengers will switch to cars and buses. A juddery diesel train making cups of coffee rattle and carriages vibrate is not desirable in one of the world's most successful economies.

We do not need a HST - that is only needed for super-long distances where the train must compete with the train. The island is too small to justify the expense. And the population dispersion and scale would make it uneconomic.

But there is definately a case for electrifying the existing lines so that journey times can be more reliable and passengers more comfortable. Electric trains are far more pleasant to travel on than diesel. In terms of passenger comfort the DART shames its cousin, the Arrow. And in an era where perception is all-important, passengers view an electrified line as significantly more reliable than a diesel one.
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23-03-2006, 10:34   #30
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Originally Posted by probe
km of rail network electrified:

Ireland 55
55 km seems like rather a high figure for Greystones to Howth/Malahide. I wonder is the real figure 27.5 km and then it gets doubled because there's two tracks.
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