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Classic car import: what does Brexit mean?

135

Comments

  • #62
    Isambard
    Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭Isambard


    macplaxton wrote: »
    Yes, at the actual time of import it is "quality used spares'" and when it becomes a "mechanically propelled vehicle" it then becomes a VRT/registration matter.

    to you yes, but to Revenue, the date of Import is the date it crossed the border. There is no provision for non-working cars.


  • #63
    commited
    Registered Users Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭commited


    w124man wrote: »
    Its not a great unknown. The revenue clearly have stated that if you present a car from a 'third country' you must have a clearance certificate and its been like that for years. From 01/01/21 the UK is a 'third country'. We have known for months that this has being coming so why are we complaining? Its not 'unjust' to change the goalposts. Blame the Brits, they voted for it, its their fault!
    To be fair, it is an unknown as the Brexit situation hasn't been resolved and indeed the revenue video said "may require". To note, I didn't complain in my post, I do think that the lack of clarity coming from revenue is concerning however.

    For those of us less educated, could you please explain how I can obtain a clearance certificate now for my classic that has recently entered the country prior to Brexit?


  • #64
    w124man
    Registered Users Posts: 2,303 ✭✭✭w124man


    commited wrote: »

    For those of us less educated, could you please explain how I can obtain a clearance certificate now for my classic that has recently entered the country prior to Brexit?

    From where and when did you import it?


  • #65
    commited
    Registered Users Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭commited


    w124man wrote: »
    From where and when did you import it?

    Northern Ireland, early December.


  • #66
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,751 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    macplaxton wrote: »
    Yes, at the actual time of import it is "quality used spares'" and when it becomes a "mechanically propelled vehicle" it then becomes a VRT/registration matter.

    Not in the eyes of Revenue.

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



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  • #67
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,751 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    commited wrote: »

    For those of us less educated, could you please explain how I can obtain a clearance certificate now for my classic that has recently entered the country prior to Brexit?

    Phone up NCTS/go online, make appointment, turn up on the appointed day, pay them the €€€€

    But you'll not be doing that this side of Brexit though: waiting lists all over the country.

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



  • #68
    macplaxton
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 2,957 Mod ✭✭✭✭macplaxton


    galwaytt wrote: »
    Not in the eyes of Revenue.

    I await my visit from the Revenue then asking me to pay VAT & VRT on my boxes of "quality used spares."

    It's not going to happen, if it did, then they'd let me register the fecking thing!

    It's not Schrödinger's car, that magically becomes a car just because the Revenue peeks inside the box.


  • #69
    Isambard
    Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭Isambard


    and if they produce evidence of it coming into the Country as a car a number of months or years previously?

    Revenue give you 30 days to re-register it, the fact that you cannot do so is of no importance to them, there is no provision for such a situation.


  • #70
    macplaxton
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 2,957 Mod ✭✭✭✭macplaxton


    That evidence is unavailable to them as even if they followed me all the way from the North, the only evidence they would have would be a body shell on a trailer, an unattached chassis and numerous boxes of quality used spares.

    It's been apart that long, I've long forgotten how it all goes back together or where everything is.

    I will of course update as and when anything progresses in this case.


  • #71
    Isambard
    Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭Isambard


    in your particular case maybe but as general advice, Revenue allow 30 days for registration and there is no provision for cars that cannot be registered due to being non-runners.


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  • #72
    w124man
    Registered Users Posts: 2,303 ✭✭✭w124man


    commited wrote: »
    Northern Ireland, early December.

    You dont need a tax clearance cert assuming you have already made an appointment with the VRT and you got a date before Brexit.


  • #73
    commited
    Registered Users Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭commited


    w124man wrote: »
    You dont need a tax clearance cert assuming you have already made an appointment with the VRT and you got a date before Brexit.

    Thanks for response, appointment applied for early December (think the 2nd) with 6th Jan date given after waiting a week or so - I.e. not before Brexit and I applied as early as I could. This was exactly my point though, revenue have been unable to confirm whether or not I need a customs clearance cert so its still an unknown about what VRT will be demanding to register hence I'd like to know how I get a customs clearance cert showing its customs compliant!


  • #74
    Car99
    Registered Users Posts: 2,530 ✭✭✭Car99


    commited wrote: »
    Thanks for response, appointment applied for early December (think the 2nd) with 6th Jan date given after waiting a week or so - I.e. not before Brexit and I applied as early as I could. This was exactly my point though, revenue have been unable to confirm whether or not I need a customs clearance cert so its still an unknown about what VRT will be demanding to register hence I'd like to know how I get a customs clearance cert showing its customs compliant!

    Thinking a little outside the box could a commissioner of oaths help in this situation to verify your car was in the country before dec 31st 2020.


  • #75
    Isambard
    Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭Isambard


    commited wrote: »
    Thanks for response, appointment applied for early December (think the 2nd) with 6th Jan date given after waiting a week or so - I.e. not before Brexit and I applied as early as I could. This was exactly my point though, revenue have been unable to confirm whether or not I need a customs clearance cert so its still an unknown about what VRT will be demanding to register hence I'd like to know how I get a customs clearance cert showing its customs compliant!

    excuse my ignorance but I would have thought a Customs clearance cert would be issued after Customs determine what VAT and Excise duty should be due and after it has been paid....ie not required before Brexit.


  • #76
    RobAMerc
    Registered Users Posts: 5,862 ✭✭✭RobAMerc


    commited wrote: »
    Thanks for response, appointment applied for early December (think the 2nd) with 6th Jan date given after waiting a week or so - I.e. not before Brexit and I applied as early as I could. This was exactly my point though, revenue have been unable to confirm whether or not I need a customs clearance cert so its still an unknown about what VRT will be demanding to register hence I'd like to know how I get a customs clearance cert showing its customs compliant!

    I think you would be very hard done by in this situation - any car in the country by 31 Dec and with a VRT appointment applied for by Jan 7th should go by the old pre-brexit rules.

    You had it in before brexit, you applied for the VRT inside the 7 days as required. You cant be at fault for them not being able to fit you in in the 30days -

    Anything after that would be fodder for a good rodgering I'd say


  • #77
    macplaxton
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 2,957 Mod ✭✭✭✭macplaxton


    RobAMerc wrote: »
    Anything after that would be fodder for a good rodgering I'd say

    Maybe. Maybe not.

    I don't even recall seeing an actual penalty for not booking an appointment within 7 days. (If anyone finds the penalty for it, post it up)

    The only penalty I've seen is for exceeding the 30 day limit.

    I'll look for the paperwork sometime, but last car I registered in November 2019 never incurred a penalty. It definitely took me longer than 7 days to make the booking and it was presented for inspection within 30 days.


  • #78
    Car99
    Registered Users Posts: 2,530 ✭✭✭Car99


    macplaxton wrote: »
    Maybe. Maybe not.

    I don't even recall seeing an actual penalty for not booking an appointment within 7 days. (If anyone finds the penalty for it, post it up)

    The only penalty I've seen is for exceeding the 30 day limit.

    I'll look for the paperwork sometime, but last car I registered in November 2019 never incurred a penalty. It definitely took me longer than 7 days to make the booking and it was presented for inspection within 30 days.

    I would say from an EU law point of view Revenue would be breaking the law if they charged VAT and import tax on goods imported from the UK prior to Brexit.
    I dont think they would do that as long as you can prove the goods were in the country before Brexit.


  • #79
    commited
    Registered Users Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭commited


    Thanks folks. I think I'm going to drive to the local Garda station and see if they'll sign a piece of paper stating they saw the car here!

    Re the customs clearance cert, I understood that its purpose is just simply to demonstrate that the vehicle is customs compliant i.e. even if zero VAT/duty due. I just have no idea how to get one :)


  • #80
    w124man
    Registered Users Posts: 2,303 ✭✭✭w124man


    I think a lot of people are totally missing the point here. After 01/01/2021 anything coming in from the UK falls under WTO rules. This simply means that our Government has to follow those rules and thats the way it is. You present a UK car for registration after 31/12/20 then the transaction falls under WTO rules irrespective of when you brought it into the country, deal or no deal.


  • #81
    Isambard
    Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭Isambard


    w124man wrote: »
    I think a lot of people are totally missing the point here. After 01/01/2021 anything coming in from the UK falls under WTO rules. This simply means that our Government has to follow those rules and thats the way it is. You present a UK car for registration after 31/12/20 then the transaction falls under WTO rules irrespective of when you brought it into the country, deal or no deal.

    depends if there's a deal or not surely. Time running out now....


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  • #82
    commited
    Registered Users Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭commited


    w124man wrote: »
    I think a lot of people are totally missing the point here. After 01/01/2021 anything coming in from the UK falls under WTO rules. This simply means that our Government has to follow those rules and thats the way it is. You present a UK car for registration after 31/12/20 then the transaction falls under WTO rules irrespective of when you brought it into the country, deal or no deal.
    I think the above is misleading. Importation concerns items crossing a border, vrt is a registration tax - precisely introduced to replace excise duty in the 90s to beat EU rules. VRT have been very clear that the customs process is separate to VRT. Therefore there is a difference between "after 01/01/2021anything coming in from the UK falls under WTO rules" (which i agree with) and "You present a UK car for registration after 31/12/20 then the transaction falls under WTO rules" (doesn't mean it attracts VAT/duty if it was in the country before 31/12/20).


  • #83
    macplaxton
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 2,957 Mod ✭✭✭✭macplaxton


    w124man wrote: »
    I think a lot of people are totally missing the point here. After 01/01/2021 anything coming in from the UK falls under WTO rules. This simply means that our Government has to follow those rules and thats the way it is. You present a UK car for registration after 31/12/20 then the transaction falls under WTO rules irrespective of when you brought it into the country, deal or no deal.

    Cobblers. That's just erroneously conflating two different points.

    1) may, migh and even likelycome under WTO rules. Not anything just yet.

    2) with less than two weeks to go with a number of holidays intervening, not much is going to get through the process before Jan.

    3) VAT and VRT are separate entities. The Revenue have said vehicles already in state can be processed normally. What they do say, although in not much detail, is that satisfactory evidence of arrival in state is required.

    What form(s) this can take to satisfy them, hasn't really been fleshed out.


  • #84
    hi5
    Registered Users Posts: 3,105 ✭✭✭hi5


    commited wrote: »
    I think the above is misleading. Importation concerns items crossing a border, vrt is a registration tax - precisely introduced to replace excise duty in the 90s to beat EU rules. VRT have been very clear that the customs process is separate to VRT. Therefore there is a difference between "after 01/01/2021anything coming in from the UK falls under WTO rules" (which i agree with) and "You present a UK car for registration after 31/12/20 then the transaction falls under WTO rules" (doesn't mean it attracts VAT/duty if it was in the country before 31/12/20).

    I think this is it.
    Registration numbers on vehicles coming into the country after 31/12/20 will be kept on a database.
    Any vehicles put forward for registration after this date will be cross referenced with this list and if on it will be charged tariffs, if not on the list then it will be presumed to have been in the country before 31/12/20 and so no tariffs.


  • #85
    Isambard
    Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭Isambard


    i think it's the other way round, you have to prove it was in before 2021 or it's assumed it wasn't


  • #86
    hi5
    Registered Users Posts: 3,105 ✭✭✭hi5


    But by using that logic then customs could walk onto my property and claim that everything I owned, furniture, electronics etc, was due tariffs unless I could prove I owned it before 2021.
    I think the onus is on customs to do the proving.


  • #87
    Isambard
    Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭Isambard


    in theory they could .


  • #88
    Car99
    Registered Users Posts: 2,530 ✭✭✭Car99


    hi5 wrote: »
    I think this is it.
    Registration numbers on vehicles coming into the country after 31/12/20 will be kept on a database.
    Any vehicles put forward for registration after this date will be cross referenced with this list and if on it will be charged tariffs, if not on the list then it will be presumed to have been in the country before 31/12/20 and so no tariffs.


    I'd doubt that it's too easy get a car into the country without any record of registration being available. In through NI via Stranraer, in on a car transporter . In on a dodgy plate . Easily avoid getting your plate recorded entering the state.


  • #89
    w124man
    Registered Users Posts: 2,303 ✭✭✭w124man


    macplaxton wrote: »
    Cobblers. That's just erroneously conflating two different points.

    1) may, migh and even likelycome under WTO rules. Not anything just yet.

    2) with less than two weeks to go with a number of holidays intervening, not much is going to get through the process before Jan.

    3) VAT and VRT are separate entities. The Revenue have said vehicles already in state can be processed normally. What they do say, although in not much detail, is that satisfactory evidence of arrival in state is required.

    What form(s) this can take to satisfy them, hasn't really been fleshed out.

    Not once did I mention VRT. WTO rules is bugger all to do with VRT. I'm talking about duty and VAT. DUTY and VAT are under the WTO rules. Before you spout off I respectfully suggest you actually read what I wrote.


  • #90
    w124man
    Registered Users Posts: 2,303 ✭✭✭w124man


    commited wrote: »
    I think the above is misleading. Importation concerns items crossing a border, vrt is a registration tax - precisely introduced to replace excise duty in the 90s to beat EU rules. VRT have been very clear that the customs process is separate to VRT. Therefore there is a difference between "after 01/01/2021anything coming in from the UK falls under WTO rules" (which i agree with) and "You present a UK car for registration after 31/12/20 then the transaction falls under WTO rules" (doesn't mean it attracts VAT/duty if it was in the country before 31/12/20).

    See above. I never mentioned VRT. Read what I wrote!


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  • #91
    macplaxton
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 2,957 Mod ✭✭✭✭macplaxton


    w124man wrote: »
    Not once did I mention VRT. WTO rules is bugger all to do with VRT. I'm talking about duty and VAT. DUTY and VAT are under the WTO rules. Before you spout off I respectfully suggest you actually read what I wrote.

    See point one. My calendar says it's the 19th December. It is not the 1st of January.

    You're assuming WTO kicks in on 1st. Which isn't unreasonable, but it's also not a dead cert yet.

    Anything can happen between now and then.

    (for the avoidance of doubt, point one refers to DUTY and VAT)


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