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The Boards.ie Explainer: FTTH and You

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  • 08-11-2018 12:09am
    #1
    ED E
    Registered Users Posts: 36,164 ✭✭✭✭


    [This is what happens when I over caffeinate]

    This is a fluid post, I'll change it while edits are unlocked. Post is intended to be Ireland centric.

    What's FTTH?
    Fibre To The Home. This means the super mega fast and cool light signal goes all the way into your gaff before being transformed into copper/wifi signals. Nerdy bit: We're talking GPON here, google if you wanna know more.

    Why do I want it?
    Fassssst
    Low latency (FaceTime, Skype, Games)
    Less fault prone than copper
    Increases property value
    Same speed at 100m or 10km

    FTTH Speeds (Down / Up)
    With OpenEir as the wholesaler
    150/30
    300/50
    1000/100
    With SIRO (ESB) as the wholesaler
    150/30
    350/70
    600/120
    1000/200

    "Electric Broadband" - Is it on the leccy wires?
    No, its not, this is marketing bull****

    Cables?
    Yes, everyone requires a new cable from the roadside to the house. No old cables can carry a stream of photons to speed up your teletubbies. Some will go aerial (pole to gable of your gaff) and some underground (up a duct)

    Drilling?
    Yes. Nearly everyone requires drilling of some degree. If you're Hyacinth Bucket(ignore that kids) then stick to your bogband.

    Do I need to keep the landline?
    Nope, but not having one won't magically save you money, the pricing is nearly identical. The router can provide you phone service and your phones won't be any the wiser.

    Will I really get those speeds or is this an up to thing?
    You'll get them. 150Mb will show as about 144Mb, 1000Mb will show as about 960Mb due to technical limitations.

    1000Mb is cheap, might as well go for that right?
    Not really. 1000Mb (called Gigabit) for 99.9% of rural households is like buying a Maserati to commute in and out of Galway city centre. Yes its flashy but you're getting 1MPG to get there just as fast as Dave in his Berlingo. Unless you have a need (B&B, traditional Catholic family of 25, 15 Polish lads in one house) go for 150Mb.

    I still wanna get the 1000Mb just to be faster than the Jones'
    Fine. Just be aware that most of your devices may be too slow to actually pull that much data. Yes that includes your €1000 iPhone. There are large villages sharing 150Mb between everyone, 1000Mb into your house is like having Ardnacrusha in your garden. Don't go moaning to tech support that you're only seeing 90Mb on speedtest. Please don't be that guy.

    Is Virgin Media FTTH?
    No, bar a small trial userbase, Virgin use a copper cable designed for TV signals. Its fast at 360Mb with more to give but its reaching the end of its life while optical systems are really only getting started. Virgin speeds will be similar but latency will never compete with FTTH so for gamers the change might be worthwhile.

    Can I use my own equipment?
    See post 2

    Can I get it?
    See Post 3

    FUPS? - Fair Usage Policies or Usage Limits
    - Airwire, Eir, Net1, Westnet: unlimited. (As in really!)
    - Digiweb, Pure Telecom, Vodafone: 1 TB Fair use policy, but no charge for going over (risk of suspension, cancellation.)
    NB: Can vary on old/new contracts, verify yourself at point of sale

    Some guy came to my door....
    DO
    NOT
    ORDER
    ANY
    SERVICE
    AT
    THE
    DOORSTEP

    Ideally call, online orders are a bit messy with many providers.

    What about TV?
    Yes, IPTV is available from Vodafone, Eir, Sky(Mixed delivery)
    It DOESNT count against your monthly cap but DOES come over the internet connection. While in use you lose a little bit of speed but nobody will notice 136Mb instead of 144Mb.



    More to come.


«134567…13

Comments

  • Options
    #2
    ED E
    Registered Users Posts: 36,164 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    n2yixd.jpg
    ODP Ignore that
    ONT Light -> Electrical signals
    ISP Router - connects to ONT. ONT can be thought of as your "Master Socket"





    Can I bridge the router supplied by X?
    You don't need to bridge. The ONT that is quite like your "Master Socket" from your old broadband providers an ethernet interface that is your broadband pipe. You can hook directly up to that and bin whatever junk the ISP gives you. Some caveats about VOIP phone service to be added.

    For ALL FTTH customers:
    You must be able to handle the VLAN tags presented to your device. All pro gear can do this but some SOHO devices do not support it. This means they cannot connect at all. Confirm before buying.

    For 300Mb+ customers:
    Above 200Mb the computational task of turning wild west internet traffic into local sorta safe network traffic is burdonesome and cheaper devices will not keep up. This especially applies to 1000Mb subscribers.

    Some routers can do 500Mb with features turned off but only 200Mb with useful things like a traffic meter (monthly usage) turned on. You need to look up benchmarks/reviews and ensure it does the full speed of your connection WAN to LAN without gimping itself.

    My 1200Mb homeplugs will work well right?
    Nope, AV1200s can work anywhere from 10-200Mb half duplex (cant send and receive at the same time). On a 40Mb VDSL line they seem great, on a faster connection they become a very significant limit

    This router is AC1900, 1900 > 1000 so all good?
    Again no, in real terms wifi varies hugely depending on several factors. With very good AC MIMO you can get 600Mb with the right device but don't expect that.

    TV with a 3rd Party Router:
    See this thread: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057784582


    Stock kit:
    Marlow wrote: »
    - Vodafone: Lottery of A) HG658(Old, slow) B)HG659 (less slow) C) Gigastation/Powerstation SHG3000 (v.Nice on paper)
    - Eir: Huawei HG659
    - Digiweb: Fritz!Box
    - Sky: Sky Q box (Unique to Sky)

    - Airwire: Fritz!Box, Mikrotik or your own (if compatible)
    - BBNet: Mikrotik
    - Carnsore Broadband: Fritz!Box
    - Fastcom: Fritz!Box
    - Net1: Fritz!Box
    - Pure Telecom: Technicolor
    - Westnet: Fritz!Box



    Notes on Troubleshooting:
    oscarBravo wrote: »
    If you don't know how to clean a fibre connector, you shouldn't be unplugging the fibre patch lead.
    If you don't know that PON uses infrared light that you can't see, you shouldn't be unplugging the fibre patch lead.
    If you don't know how to handle a fibre patch lead without damaging it or its connectors, you shouldn't be unplugging the fibre patch lead.
    **
    The lights on the ONT provide all the information that's required for your ISP to diagnose and troubleshoot any problems. If more in-depth troubleshooting is called for, it will require equipment that you don't have, don't need and can't afford.
    **
    If your FTTH stops working and there are unusual lights on the ONT, call your ISP. It's unlikely in the extreme that you'll make things better by unplugging the fibre patch lead, and there's a fairly decent chance you'll make it worse.

    Remember, kinking the fibre will cause a loss of service. Unkink and switch your ONT off and on then wait for a few minutes to restore service.


    Vodafone w/ 3rd Party: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=108500264&postcount=6
    Eir w/ 3rd Party: -
    Sky w/ 3rd Party: -


  • Options
    #3
    ED E
    Registered Users Posts: 36,164 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    Navi did the hard work for me
    Charli Nice Spittoon wrote: »
    Availability / Ordering

    open eir
    An open access network currently focussed on mainly rural and semi-rural premises, however there are approximately 40000 urban premises passed around the country.

    There are two main Eircode availability checkers:

    http://www.airwire.ie/avail

    https://www.eir.ie/broadband/1000mb-fibre/

    The Airwire checker is probably more up to date and gives future dates of availability whereas the eir one is binary yes/no.

    If your Eircode is passing on both checkers you should be able to order, if passing on Airwire alone you can order from them or wait for eir to update their database.

    There are cases, mainly with eir, where a landline number is requested and people are told FTTH is not available. This is due to the separate databases open eir maintain and requires merging of the Eircode with the ARD key. You may need to speak to whatever company you are ordering from to request this. Ordering from eir is best done over the phone where you can explain your situation.

    As an open access network you can order from any ISP that sells the service. Currently they are:
    As of writing it appears both Sky and Vodafone are undergoing testing on the network but there seems to be no easy way of ordering from either as of now.

    SIRO
    An open access network currently focussed on urban areas. Check your availability by entering your Eircode on:

    https://siro.ie/

    As an open access network you can order from any ISP that sells the service in your area. This is region dependent and the SIRO site should inform you of what ISPs are available to you.

    SIRO's current partners are:

    https://siro.ie/siro-broadband-partners/




    From here down please include your suggestions!


  • Options
    #4
    tsue921i8wljb3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,017 ✭✭✭tsue921i8wljb3


    ED E wrote: »
    There's too much to put in a couple posts but hopefully we can cover the basics.



    From here down please include your suggestions!

    Good man. It's been badly needed. I'll do up a post about availability and ordering.


  • Options
    #5
    ED E
    Registered Users Posts: 36,164 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    And before Marlow gets here, I'm keeping things simples. If something isn't quite accurate its intentional ;)


  • Options
    #6
    tsue921i8wljb3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,017 ✭✭✭tsue921i8wljb3


    Availability / Ordering

    open eir
    An open access network currently focussed on mainly rural and semi-rural premises, however there are approximately 40000 urban premises passed around the country.

    There are two main Eircode availability checkers:

    https://www.airwire.ie/avail

    https://www.eir.ie/broadband/1000mb-fibre/

    The Airwire checker is probably more up to date and gives future dates of availability whereas the eir one is binary yes/no.

    If your Eircode is passing on both checkers you should be able to order, if passing on Airwire alone you can order from them or wait for eir to update their database.

    There are cases, mainly with eir, where a landline number is requested and people are told FTTH is not available. This is due to the separate databases open eir maintain and requires merging of the Eircode with the ARD key. You may need to speak to whatever company you are ordering from to request this. Ordering from eir is best done over the phone where you can explain your situation.

    As an open access network you can order from any ISP that sells the service. Currently they are:
    As of writing it appears both Sky and Vodafone are undergoing testing on the network but there seems to be no easy way of ordering from either as of now.

    SIRO
    An open access network currently focussed on urban areas. Check your availability by entering your Eircode on:

    https://siro.ie/

    As an open access network you can order from any ISP that sells the service in your area. This is region dependent and the SIRO site should inform you of what ISPs are available to you.

    SIRO's current partners are:

    https://siro.ie/siro-broadband-partners/


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  • Options
    #7
    Marlow
    Registered Users Posts: 14,555 ✭✭✭✭Marlow


    SIRO profiles available (residential):

    150/30
    350/70
    600/120
    1000/200

    Commercial:

    anything you want up to 1000/1000 and depending on the provider on the SIRO platform. And money, of course.

    Across both OpenEIR/SIRO:

    Phone:
    - Eir: can be copper or VoBB. If VoBB, you're stuck with their router.
    - Vodafone: VoBB, you're stuck with their router.
    - Airwire, Net1, Westnet: VoIP. Credentials can be obtained.
    - Digiweb: yes, unknown setup.

    TV:

    - Eir, Vodafone: Multicast
    - Sky: dunno
    - Net1, BBnet, Airwire: Unicast - all trialing, not part of the official portfolio. Sairview and Satelite freeview channels, some in HDTV.

    That's just the ones I know of.

    Limits:
    - Airwire, Eir, Net1, Westnet: unlimited. (As in really!)
    - Digiweb, Pure Telecom, Vodafone: 1 TB Fair use policy, but no charge for going over (risk of suspension, cancellation.)

    /M


  • Options
    #8
    Marlow
    Registered Users Posts: 14,555 ✭✭✭✭Marlow


    Routers:

    - Airwire: Fritz!Box, Mikrotik or your own (if compatible)
    - BBNet: Mikrotik
    - Carnsore Broadband: Fritz!Box
    - Digiweb: Fritz!Box
    - Eir: Huawei
    - Fastcom: Fritz!Box
    - Net1: Fritz!Box
    - Pure Telecom: Technicolor
    - Sky: Sky Q box
    - Vodafone: Huawei (OpenEIR) / Vodafone Gigabox (SIRO)
    - Westnet: Fritz!Box

    Open to corrections.

    /M


  • Options
    #9
    tsue921i8wljb3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,017 ✭✭✭tsue921i8wljb3


    eir 300K / NBP premises
    eir currently have a contract with the Government to pass 300000 premises with mainly (90%) FTTH. They are due to finish in mid 2019 with 330000 premises passed.

    A map was published on:

    https://fibrerollout.ie/rollout-map/

    listing the routes and premises to be passed. Those premises in blue are due to be passed, those in green have been passed.

    There is also the NBP map curated by the DCCAE at:

    https://www.dccae.gov.ie/en-ie/communications/topics/Broadband/national-broadband-plan/high-speed-broadband-map/Pages/Interactive-Map.aspx

    However both maps are not definitive. open eir have taken it upon themselves to include at least 30000 premises that were not part of the agreement. These premises are not marked on the maps at all. As of now the fibrerollout map is best regarded as abandoned.

    The best indication of coverage is seeing work taking place at or near the entrance to your premises. If there is one of these on a pole:

    453515.jpg

    relatively close to your premises you may be covered.

    If you are several hundred metres from the end of a line and your neighbour's Eircode is passing but yours is not it is highly unlikely that you can get added.

    If you are in a new build home within a covered area, but without an Eircode, you must first get an Eircode. You then can either try to contact a helpful ISP to get added or it may also be possible to contact fibrepower@openeir.ie to request addition to the APQ file (list of passed Eircodes). If you are getting nowhere with the above try emailing Broadband@DCCAE.gov.ie as the contract eir signed with the Government states that new build homes must be added in a timely fashion.

    Unfortunately for those not already passed or due to be passed, the National Broadband Plan is the solution.


  • Options
    #10
    Marlow
    Registered Users Posts: 14,555 ✭✭✭✭Marlow


    Ok .. the installer has now drilled a hole into my premise/house/gaff ... what's going on from here ?

    With all new installations of FTTH, the typical setup looks like this:
    45042802534_cdf472e50b_b.jpg

    The cradle is called an ODP - it holds the fibre coming from the outside and feeds it into the ONT. That's the unit sitting in the cradle.

    It is typically mounted at the nearest double socket from where the cable enters the premise. The installers are generally not allowed to run the cable through the attic or install the the equipment up there. But if you have installed ducting through the attic and fitted it with a pull rope, there is nothing preventing you from getting the cable routed through the attic.

    On older installations the ONT and ODP are 2 seperate boxes mounted side-by-side.

    From the ONT (Optical Network Termination), there is a Cat5e/Cat6 Gigabit connection to your router.

    The fibre cable can be brought in a various of manors:
    • Overhead
      • OpenEIR: the last drop can be no more than 50m
      • SIRO: as ESB Networks has to be involved for overhead installs, it can take 4-6 weeks to complete the installation
    • Surface retractable
      • This is a SIRO only type install and requires drilling to get the fibre in, but is otherwise straight forward. It only applies in areas, where building owners have given SIRO permission to run the cabling on the surface of the building.
    • Underground
      • OpenEIR: the ducting guidelines can be found here. Any civils on your own premise (blocked ducting, collapsed ducting, no ducting) are your responsibility to fix.
      • SIRO: the cable is ran through the ESB ducting to your ESB meter. All civils needed up to that point are taken care of by SIRO. SIRO then brings it from there to the nearest double socket to mount the ODP and ONT. You can run your own Cat5e/Cat6 cable to bring the router to a different place in your house.

    /M


  • Options
    #11
    babi-hrse
    Registered Users Posts: 787 ✭✭✭babi-hrse


    Brilliant post op as someone said multicast. If provider modem is binned providers TV services don't work.
    Eir's one is quite restrictive in the sense that if you have eirtv and the modem borks itself and you get a direct replacement f2000 router the TV service will still not work citing "the TV service must be on the broadband connection it was registered to" seems it pairs with the Mac address of the router and not the BB port


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    #12
    Marlow
    Registered Users Posts: 14,555 ✭✭✭✭Marlow


    A few more providers you can add:

    - ChillWifi - OpenEIR and SIRO
    - Lightnet - OpenEIR
    - Northwest Broadband - SIRO

    The reason that some SIRO providers aren't on SIROs partner list is that they'd be contracting and connecting through 3rd party networks (eNet, BT, Airwire) and have no direct contract with SIRO.

    So it'll be worthwhile keeping a list here also.

    /M


  • Options
    #13
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users Posts: 13,990 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    Great thread ED E ....... I am hopeful that information about VOIP across the various providers/devices can be added or even linked to.
    There are some difficulties I believe when attempting to use an alternative device ...... at least with some providers.

    Thanks for the thread ;)


  • Options
    #14
    satguy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,743 ✭✭✭satguy


    In Portlaoise and on Digiweb > SIRO with the full 1000 gigabit package.

    This is what you can expect.

    7782802992.png

    It has been rock solid, and in 10 months since install, has never given me an ounce of bother.

    Also have the phone pack as well, all calls are free (except those premium numbers) .


  • Options
    #15
    cathal9
    Registered Users Posts: 13 ✭cathal9


    Marlow wrote: »
    Routers:

    - Vodafone: Huawei (OpenEIR) / Vodafone Gigabox (SIRO)

    Open to corrections.

    /M

    Vodafone are using the same router, the Gigabox, for all FTTH customers apparently. Saw some eFTTH VF customers post about it on other threads


  • Options
    #16
    Marlow
    Registered Users Posts: 14,555 ✭✭✭✭Marlow


    cathal9 wrote: »
    Vodafone are using the same router, the Gigabox, for all FTTH customers apparently. Saw some eFTTH VF customers post about it on other threads

    Mixed reports at the moment. They probably will, once they run out of stock on the Huawei ones.

    /M


  • Options
    #17
    uck51js9zml2yt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,268 ✭✭✭✭uck51js9zml2yt


    Can this be stickied please?


  • Options
    #18
    ED E
    Registered Users Posts: 36,164 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    Absentee mods, no stickying.


  • Options
    #19
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    The mods are still active on boards just not on the forums they mod.


  • Options
    #20
    The high horse brigade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,456 ✭✭✭The high horse brigade


    ED E wrote: »
    Absentee mods, no stickying.

    Pm bk


  • Options
    #21
    uck51js9zml2yt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,268 ✭✭✭✭uck51js9zml2yt


    The high horse brigade wrote: »
    Pm bk

    Done!!


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    #22
    blueser
    Registered Users Posts: 10,691 ✭✭✭✭blueser


    I keep reading good things about the Fritzbox routers. Which model would be the best to handle 300mb speeds?


  • Options
    #23
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,791 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    ED E wrote: »
    Absentee mods, no stickying.

    Presentee admin, stickied! :pac:


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    #24
    Marlow
    Registered Users Posts: 14,555 ✭✭✭✭Marlow


    blueser wrote: »
    I keep reading good things about the Fritzbox routers. Which model would be the best to handle 300mb speeds?

    All of them, if they have Gigabit interfaces.

    The 4040 is not quite as performant when it comes to Gig, but no problem with 600 Mbit/s. 7560 is certified for Gig. 7490/7590 are their flagship models.

    And the new 7530 needs testing first.

    /M


  • Options
    #25
    blueser
    Registered Users Posts: 10,691 ✭✭✭✭blueser


    Marlow wrote: »
    All of them, if they have Gigabit interfaces.

    The 4040 is not quite as performant when it comes to Gig, but no problem with 600 Mbit/s. 7560 is certified for Gig. 7490/7590 are their flagship models.

    And the new 7530 needs testing first.

    /M
    Cheers for the info.


  • Options
    #26
    uck51js9zml2yt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,268 ✭✭✭✭uck51js9zml2yt


    I've the 150mbps with eir which has been solid in the room
    They used the f2000.

    Is there something better I can do?

    I need to get the WiFi at the far end of a bungalow. It's 1600 sq feet.


  • Options
    #27
    ED E
    Registered Users Posts: 36,164 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    Bungalows unless TINY should be served by two APs minimum. The nice bit is there tends to be easy attic access to every room.

    Your router and ODP are probably at one end yeah? Run CAT6 from there along the attic to the "middle of the other end" and fit an AP like a Ubinifi Light or similar. At 150Mb you don't need to go mad.


  • Options
    #28
    uck51js9zml2yt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,268 ✭✭✭✭uck51js9zml2yt


    ED E wrote: »
    Bungalows unless TINY should be served by two APs minimum. The nice bit is there tends to be easy attic access to every room.

    Your router and ODP are probably at one end yeah? Run CAT6 from there along the attic to the "middle of the other end" and fit an AP like a Ubinifi Light or similar. At 150Mb you don't need to go mad.

    I had thought of the ubiquiti during the week.
    Correct on the location :)

    Would a better router help?


  • Options
    #29
    ED E
    Registered Users Posts: 36,164 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    Marlow wrote: »
    - Eir, Vodafone: Multicast
    - Sky: dunno

    More info around the infra in place for SkyQ would be great.


  • Options
    #30
    uck51js9zml2yt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,268 ✭✭✭✭uck51js9zml2yt


    ED E wrote: »
    More info around the infra in place for SkyQ would be great.

    Sky are only trialling ftth at the minute.
    They offered me a 12 Mbps line when the dog on the street knew I could get FTTH:)


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    #31
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    Ty Sweet Starch wrote: »
    I had thought of the ubiquiti during the week.
    Correct on the location :)

    Would a better router help?

    If the signal is almost good enough to reach the far end then a better router/wifi combo may be enough.

    Some cat5 cable and the cheapest unifi access point will fix the problem for sure though.


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