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Aziz Ansari - sexual assault or unwarranted assault on reputation

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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,130 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    neonsofa wrote: »
    "Let's relax for a sec, let's chill" does not mean i dont want to have sex with you. It could mean many different things. Even the phrase "Netflix and chill" alludes to having sex for many young people (I'm led to believe :pac:). It could mean, let's slow it down and ease into sex. It could very well mean nah I don't want to have sex at all.

    But if you don't want to have sex at all,the way to refuse is by explicitly saying so.


    Do you not think that woman deeply regrets not explicitly saying it...she was not in control of the situation once he got her back to his apartment...I actually think he would have ignored her if she did say it....he had plenty of time to assess his own behaviour...

    In the context of what happened...if Ansari had respected her wishes and relaxed and chilled for a bit, he may have realised he was moving at a speed that his partner was uncomfortable with....

    He didn't, and now he is facing a destroyed career, he is probably thinking long and hard about all the other groupies he f@@ked over the years hoping they don't come out of the woodwork with similar tales...

    His own pig ignorance and twisted sense of entitlement when it comes to f@@king groupies will now possibly destroy him...I suppose that is her fault too...


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,476 ✭✭✭neonsofa


    [/B]

    Do you not think that woman deeply regrets not explicitly saying it...she was not in control of the situation once he got her back to his apartment...I actually think he would have ignored her if she did say it....he had plenty of time to assess his own behaviour...

    In the context of what happened...if Ansari had respected her wishes and relaxed and chilled for a bit, he may have realised he was moving at a speed that his partner was uncomfortable with....

    He didn't, and now he is facing a destroyed career, he is probably thinking long and hard about all the other groupies he f@@ked over the years hoping they don't come out of the woodwork with similar tales...

    His own pig ignorance and twisted sense of entitlement when it comes to f@@king groupies will now possibly destroy him...I suppose that is her fault too...

    When did she "lose" control exactly?

    She didn't like the wine, had control to ask for a different drink but chose not to.
    He said let's go to mine,even though they hadn't finished their wine- she had control over that, could have said no i'd rather stay and finish the wine (that i dont even like but am drinking anyway) but she chose not to.
    She didn't like the oral- she didn't speak up but continued to do it.
    He mentioned a condom and rather than saying "no there's no need,I don't plan on having sex" she said "let's chill".

    I mean yeah he seems like a dick. Pushy like a horny teenager. But she did have control and she chose not to speak up.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,211 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    [/B]

    Do you not think that woman deeply regrets not explicitly saying it...she was not in control of the situation once he got her back to his apartment...I actually think he would have ignored her if she did say it....he had plenty of time to assess his own behaviour...

    In the context of what happened...if Ansari had respected her wishes and relaxed and chilled for a bit, he may have realised he was moving at a speed that his partner was uncomfortable with....

    He didn't, and now he is facing a destroyed career, he is probably thinking long and hard about all the other groupies he f@@ked over the years hoping they don't come out of the woodwork with similar tales...

    His own pig ignorance and twisted sense of entitlement when it comes to f@@king groupies will now possibly destroy him...I suppose that is her fault too...

    Do you have actual knowledge of his past exploits? You've gone long on mob justice there.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,130 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    lawred2 wrote: »
    Do you have actual knowledge of his past exploits? You've gone long on mob justice there.

    I'm expressing my opinion on what his thought process is right now...I'd imagine I am not too far off the mark...did the words "probably thinking" confuse you?

    What does "You've gone long on mob justice there" actually mean...


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,130 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    neonsofa wrote: »
    When did she "lose" control exactly?

    She didn't like the wine, had control to ask for a different drink but chose not to.
    He said let's go to mine,even though they hadn't finished their wine- she had control over that, could have said no i'd rather stay and finish the wine (that i dont even like but am drinking anyway) but she chose not to.
    She didn't like the oral- she didn't speak up but continued to do it.
    He mentioned a condom and rather than saying "no there's no need,I don't plan on having sex" she said "let's chill".

    I mean yeah he seems like a dick. Pushy like a horny teenager. But she did have control and she chose not to speak up.

    She never had control....is the point, just like all the women who are raped by people they know....

    She has chosen to speak up...his career is now probably finished....all because his expectations were out of kilter with his date's....


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  • Registered Users Posts: 24,211 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    I'm expressing my opinion on what his thought process is right now...I'd imagine I am not too far off the mark...did the words "probably thinking" confuse you?

    What does "You've gone long on mob justice there" actually mean...

    You know nothing about this guy other than what's recounted in this story.

    Yet you don't stop there do you!? You've constructed an entire fact free reality for yourself.

    You could be right. You could be way off that mark.

    Doesn't matter to you though. Your mind is made up. The lad is a well practiced sexual predator. You've even established the back story.
    What does "You've gone long on mob justice there" actually mean...

    Seriously!?


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,476 ✭✭✭neonsofa


    She never had control....is the point, just like all the women who are raped by people they know....

    She has chosen to speak up...his career is now probably finished....all because his expectations were out of kilter with his date's....


    The women who are raped by people they know have all control and freedom of choice taken from them, so I'm wondering at what point hers was actually taken from her?


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,130 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    lawred2 wrote: »
    You know nothing about this guy other than what's recounted in this story.

    Yet you don't stop there do you!? You've constructed an entire fact free reality for yourself.

    You could be right. You could be way off that mark.

    Doesn't matter to you though. Your mind is made up. The lad is a well practiced sexual predator. You've even established the back story.



    Seriously!?

    What are you on about....

    Entire fact free reality? What is that?

    What backstory?

    All we have to go on is the account of the woman...

    It is not a social media post, it was published by a company, it has been published at this stage by a heap of other media companies, all of who can be sued, all of whom could have been subjected to injunctions...

    Ansari, and his legal team, have chosen not to respond...

    Until Ansari responds, the only account that is out there is the womans account...he knows the danger of this kind of publicity, he is aware of the Metoo movement and its consequences....

    In my opinion, based on that account, it was a prolonged sexual assault...one that would be very hard to prove in a court of law, but an assault nonetheless...

    I am, I see in the minority...




  • She never had control....is the point, just like all the women who are raped by people they know....

    She has chosen to speak up...his career is now probably finished....all because his expectations were out of kilter with his date's....

    Ok. She's 23 years old. An Adult, yes?

    So far, you have continuously alluded to her having no control over the situation (although you've changed that to once she got to his apartment in one response).

    At what stage, does she take responsibility for her own behavior?

    She made contact with him. Flirted with him over a period of time. Arranged a date with him. Met him, and continued flirting with him. Agreed to go to his home after the date. Kissed and engaged in foreplay. Allowed herself and him to become undressed. and so on.

    When does she bear responsibility for her own choices? So far... you've assigned all responsibility for what occurred to him.

    Lastly... You keep bringing up rape. He didn't rape her.

    “After he bent me over is when I stood up and said no, I don’t think I’m ready to do this, I really don’t think I’m going to do this. And he said, ‘How about we just chill, but this time with our clothes on?’”

    There was no rape. He was an asshole. he was overly enthusiastic. But by her own admission, she didn't refuse his advances until he went to have penetrative sex with her. And when she said no... he stopped.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,211 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    What are you on about....

    Entire fact free reality? What is that?

    What backstory?

    All we have to go on is the account of the woman...

    It is not a social media post, it was published by a company, it has been published at this stage by a heap of other media companies, all of who can be sued, all of whom could have been subjected to injunctions...

    Ansari, and his legal team, have chosen not to respond...

    Until Ansari responds, the only account that is out there is the womans account...he knows the danger of this kind of publicity, he is aware of the Metoo movement and its consequences....

    In my opinion, based on that account, it was a prolonged sexual assault...one that would be very hard to prove in a court of law, but an assault nonetheless...

    I am, I see in the minority...

    This is a back story
    He didn't, and now he is facing a destroyed career, he is probably thinking long and hard about all the other groupies he f@@ked over the years hoping they don't come out of the woodwork with similar tales...

    His own pig ignorance and twisted sense of entitlement when it comes to f@@king groupies will now possibly destroy him...

    Is that not a back story?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo


    Seems like she would have actually ended up having sex with him if he had played it a little more cool and wasn't so pushy and eager. So he comes off as a goofball who got too far ahead of himself.

    He shouldn't be put on a sexual offenders registry because of this. People really are getting all to hysterical over #MeToo.




  • I am, I see in the minority...

    I certainly hope you are.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,130 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    Ok. She's 23 years old. An Adult, yes?

    So far, you have continuously alluded to her having no control over the situation (although you've changed that to once she got to his apartment in one response).

    At what stage, does she take responsibility for her own behavior?

    She made contact with him. Flirted with him over a period of time. Arranged a date with him. Met him, and continued flirting with him. Agreed to go to his home after the date. Kissed and engaged in foreplay. Allowed herself and him to become undressed. and so on.

    When does she bear responsibility for her own choices? So far... you've assigned all responsibility for what occurred to him.

    Lastly... You keep bringing up rape. He didn't rape her.

    “After he bent me over is when I stood up and said no, I don’t think I’m ready to do this, I really don’t think I’m going to do this. And he said, ‘How about we just chill, but this time with our clothes on?’”

    There was no rape. He was an asshole. he was overly enthusiastic. But by her own admission, she didn't refuse his advances until he went to have penetrative sex with her. And when she said no... he stopped.

    Here in lies the bind...

    You, and you are not alone, have a problem with her control and her inability to use it....fair enough...

    She has suffered a deeply uncomfortable incident, clearly....in my opinion, it was a prolonged sexual assault, I am clearly on my own on that one...

    She has gone public, which could possibly end his career, where is HIS duty of care to himself, why didn't he seek an injunction? why didn't he respond instantly with horror to the accusation? The publishers contacted him before they published...

    But no, we all focus on the actions of the woman....I find it all very odd...


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,130 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    I certainly hope you are.

    I can see now why women are so slow to report, what they believe to be sexual assault or rape....very sad


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,130 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    Ok. She's 23 years old. An Adult, yes?

    So far, you have continuously alluded to her having no control over the situation (although you've changed that to once she got to his apartment in one response).

    At what stage, does she take responsibility for her own behavior?

    She made contact with him. Flirted with him over a period of time. Arranged a date with him. Met him, and continued flirting with him. Agreed to go to his home after the date. Kissed and engaged in foreplay. Allowed herself and him to become undressed. and so on.

    When does she bear responsibility for her own choices? So far... you've assigned all responsibility for what occurred to him.

    Lastly... You keep bringing up rape. He didn't rape her.

    “After he bent me over is when I stood up and said no, I don’t think I’m ready to do this, I really don’t think I’m going to do this. And he said, ‘How about we just chill, but this time with our clothes on?’”

    There was no rape. He was an asshole. he was overly enthusiastic. But by her own admission, she didn't refuse his advances until he went to have penetrative sex with her. And when she said no... he stopped.

    She refused to grab his c##k on between 5-7 occasions before that...I would have though once was enough but then I'm clearly in the minority...




  • Here in lies the bind...

    What Bind? You don't actually put one in your response...
    She has suffered a deeply uncomfortable incident, clearly....in my opinion, it was a prolonged sexual assault, I am clearly on my own on that one...

    She had a bad experience prolonged by her inability to say no, or stop.
    She has gone public, which could possibly end his career, where is HIS duty of care to himself, why didn't he seek an injunction? why didn't he respond instantly with horror to the accusation? The publishers contacted him before they published...

    Because unfortunately, when people consider claims of assault or rape, they're a lot like you. They jump to conclusions regardless of what is actually reported. Her own article states how indecisive she was. The article states that he stopped when she told him to. But people like yourself, will cry RAPE! regardless of what he says on the matter.

    You really think his career would survive the gossip magazines? A career that relies on his public image?
    But no, we all focus on the actions of the woman....I find it all very odd...

    You have got to be ****ting me. You started your focus on the man from the beginning and we responded to your decision to focus entirely on him. You absolved the woman of all responsibility for the situation, going so far as to introduce rape, and then to move to sexual assault.




  • I can see now why women are so slow to report, what they believe to be sexual assault or rape....very sad

    That's just pathetic. Your argument was extremely flawed. That's why you're not getting the support you wish.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,977 ✭✭✭HandsomeBob


    This is surely a take piss. Just as this guy wins a GG that people have made a big deal about alluding him for years, a sexual assault from this time last year comes to light.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,807 ✭✭✭✭anewme


    I think most women will have encountered someone like this on more than one occasion throughout their life. Pushy and hands on .....back in the day we used to define them as having Roman hands and Russian fingers.

    Personally, I think the wine thing in the apartment before they went out is telling enough. It showed he did not give a crap. If someone coming over for a drink before we went out and I was trying to make an impression I’d be fussing, (oh I wonder does he like red or white, get both, oh I wonder does he like French or new world, get both)

    He’s s horrible slimy egotistical weasel of a yoke, the knack is to exit stage left immediately. She had a horrible experience but I would not define it as sexual assault.


  • Registered Users Posts: 68 ✭✭poo poo


    Quick reading reveals as soon as she said stop to anything he stopped - whats the problem!!!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    anewme wrote: »
    I think most women will have encountered someone like this on more than one occasion throughout their life. Pushy and hands on .....back in the day we used to define them as having Roman hands and Russian fingers.

    Personally, I think the wine thing in the apartment before they went out is telling enough. It showed he did not give a crap. If someone coming over for a drink before we went out and I was trying to make an impression I’d be fussing, (oh I wonder does he like red or white, get both, oh I wonder does he like French or new world, get both)

    He’s s horrible slimy egotistical weasel of a yoke, the knack is to exit stage left immediately. She had a horrible experience but I would not define it as sexual assault.

    He was horrible to her from the get go. Yet she still went with him back to his apartment and blew him. If he had have been polite and a gentleman with her he would have got nowhere. That's what confuses the hell out of a lot of normal decent men, and makes them question why they should respect women when that often leads to them seeing you as a "nice guy"

    The focus is not on him because men know guys like this that they dislike, or they are one themselves.

    And let's be honest, he was famous and she was a nobody, and he sent her sexual texts all week. What did she expect? She didn't "know" him, she was one of a thousand interchangeable groupies to him.


  • Registered Users Posts: 68 ✭✭poo poo


    professore wrote: »
    He was horrible to her from the get go. Yet she still went with him back to his apartment and blew him. If he had have been polite and a gentleman with her he would have got nowhere. That's what confuses the hell out of a lot of normal decent men, and makes them question why they should respect women when that often leads to them seeing you as a "nice guy"


    I agree, but many will differ ;)


  • Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ Daniel Moldy Rainfall


    professore wrote: »
    He was horrible to her from the get go. Yet she still went with him back to his apartment and blew him. If he had have been polite and a gentleman with her he would have got nowhere. That's what confuses the hell out of a lot of normal decent men, and makes them question why they should respect women when that often leads to them seeing you as a "nice guy"

    The focus is not on him because men know guys like this that they dislike, or they are one themselves.

    And let's be honest, he was famous and she was a nobody, and he sent her sexual texts all week. What did she expect? She didn't "know" him, she was one of a thousand interchangeable groupies to him.
    Yeah I've had this with a friend lately. She gave out loads about a guy being way too pushy with her friend. Then another time he kissed her. She came back "upset" and I just asked what she expected. Says she doesn't trust him to get drunk with. Yet keeps doing it.
    I've made the point to her that I don't know why I bother because being a prick obviously works for him and is consequence free. And she's never brought it up with him, it ain't my job to.


  • Registered Users Posts: 68 ✭✭poo poo


    Yeah I've had this with a friend lately. She gave out loads about a guy being way too pushy with her friend. Then another time he kissed her. She came back "upset" and I just asked what she expected. Says she doesn't trust him to get drunk with. Yet keeps doing it.
    I've made the point to her that I don't know why I bother because being a prick obviously works for him and is consequence free. And she's never brought it up with him, it ain't my job to.

    So this guy is basically going to end up getting arrested because she wont tell him straight to stop being feely??

    I suggest telling the guy he is dealing with a freak who may get him in trouble if she wakes up and realizes she slept with a guy and is embarrassed or bored!


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,807 ✭✭✭✭anewme


    poo poo wrote: »
    So this guy is basically going to end up getting arrested because she wont tell him straight to stop being feely??

    I suggest telling the guy he is dealing with a freak who may get him in trouble if she wakes up and realizes she slept with a guy and is embarrassed or bored![/QUOTE

    The guy is the freak not the girl, she should stay away, but how he behaves towards other people is ultimately his responsibility and will catch up with him sooner or later. As an adult, he should know himself not to be “feely” without having to be told.


    Maybe not this time , but someone else won’t entertain this and he will get into trouble. If you are a pushy groper, it won’t always end well for you.

    It’s not ok to be a pushy groper.




  • professore wrote: »
    If he had have been polite and a gentleman with her he would have got nowhere.

    Unlikely. She accepted his attention because he was famous (since she was out with "someone" else when she first met him). We don't know the way he behaved with her, but I think we can all guess that he would have been confident, charming, and very smooth. His career is based on being smooth on tv.
    That's what confuses the hell out of a lot of normal decent men, and makes them question why they should respect women when that often leads to them seeing you as a "nice guy"

    I disagree completely. Nice/decent guys will continue to be nice because, well, they're nice. They're nice because they want to be nice. I'm a gentleman to women both because of how it makes me feel, and since "most" women (of those I'm attracted to) enjoy that kind of behavior.

    We've all met crackpot women, bitchy women, women that lie to us, or perhaps even women who were violent towards us. It hasn't stopped us from wanting to be good men. Why? because those women are, thankfully, a minority.




  • anewme wrote: »
    The guy is the freak not the girl,

    A freak? He's obviously a bit of an asshole, and overly pushy, but hardly a freak. We're basing all our information on a rather confusing article.

    And the girl is hardly innocent in all of this considering that he didn't force her to do anything. She herself states that she didn't tell him to stop until he tried to have penetrative sex. Instead, she says she mumbled a bit, and turned "cold".
    she should stay away, but how he behaves towards other people is ultimately his responsibility and will catch up with him sooner or later.

    Agreed, but that works both ways. If she continues to behave like this, she might meet a guy who doesn't stop when she says so.
    Maybe not this time , but someone else won’t entertain this and he will get into trouble. If you are a pushy groper, it won’t always end well for you.

    He has already gotten into trouble. His career is likely finished since accusations of abuse/assault are not going to disappear.

    She made a mistake, but honestly, I can't see why you're so quick to forgive her for her mistakes in judgment but not forgive him. He didn't hurt her. He didn't rape her. He stopped the moment she said to stop.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 11 Barncom


    professore wrote: »
    He was horrible to her from the get go. Yet she still went with him back to his apartment and blew him. If he had have been polite and a gentleman with her he would have got nowhere. That's what confuses the hell out of a lot of normal decent men, and makes them question why they should respect women when that often leads to them seeing you as a "nice guy"

    The focus is not on him because men know guys like this that they dislike, or they are one themselves.

    And let's be honest, he was famous and she was a nobody, and he sent her sexual texts all week. What did she expect? She didn't "know" him, she was one of a thousand interchangeable groupies to him.

    It depends what you mean by "respecting women". To some mean that means putting their needs before their own, in my view that is pathetic.

    The respect I give a particular individual is not based on their gender. I the level of respect I have for each individual differs on a case by case basis and is subject to change as more information comes to light.

    Ultimately though if a woman wants to have sex with me, she needs to demonstrate to me that their is something special about her that makes her worthy of my cock :D This simple belief makes me irresistable to many women, because they have to impress me in contrast to the legions of men trying to impress her at the expense of their authenticity and integrity. They lose respect for such men.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,807 ✭✭✭✭anewme


    A freak? He's obviously a bit of an asshole, and overly pushy, but hardly a freak. We're basing all our information on a rather confusing article.

    And the girl is hardly innocent in all of this considering that he didn't force her to do anything. She herself states that she didn't tell him to stop until he tried to have penetrative sex. Instead, she says she mumbled a bit, and turned "cold".



    Agreed, but that works both ways. If she continues to behave like this, she might meet a guy who doesn't stop when she says so.


    He has already gotten into trouble. His career is likely finished since accusations of abuse/assault are not going to disappear.

    She made a mistake, but honestly, I can't see why you're so quick to forgive her for her mistakes in judgment but not forgive him. He didn't hurt her. He didn't rape her. He stopped the moment she said to stop.

    You are getting mixed up. I’m referring to Poo Poo response to buttons couple of posts above who has a friend interacting with a pushy guy and he is saying the pushy guy is should be warned that the girl is a freak but no problem with the pushy guys Behavior. And that the girl shoukd have to tell feely guy not to be feely. She should not have to tell him not to be feely.

    This is not about the original post.


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  • Barncom wrote: »
    Ultimately though if a woman wants to have sex with me, she needs to demonstrate to me that their is something special about her that makes her worthy of my cock :D

    Oh Lord. Genuinely feel the urge to upchuck. :rolleyes:


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