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Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 33,370 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Who commissioned both your linked 'studies'


    Its like asking the Iona institute for advice on abortion.


    Thanks but no.

    I might ask AAI why they want this linked to inflation. Do you know why?

    Has their been an impact assessment on inflation?


    Do you even understand any of what I'm saying..



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,059 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Alcohol deaths dropped the first year. They rocketed back up the year after. That bit never gets mentioned!

    None of the reports claiming good effects are fully public - they're all paywalled. At least one (the one on sales volume) has an obvious clanging error revealed in its abstract showing that the author(s) don't even understand the statistics they're trying to abuse in to showing the result they had determined they were going to show. There's not much to be confident about the quality of the others either.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,246 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    From the first link it seems to be continuing a downward trend which started pre-MUP around 2007.

    If we can't definitively claim that MUP is responsible for the continued increase in drugs issue because it was already happening, then how can MUP claim credit for the downward alcohol deaths?



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,014 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Not a great example really considering that tobacco sales are plummeting.

    Now I think that's as much down to the increased awareness younger people have towards health as it is the money but if I was debating against the minimum alcohol pricing I would stay well away from bringing up the fags



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,059 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Some of the reduction in tobacco sales is the change to the black market.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,568 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    A cash grab? How do people still not understand vitually non of the price increase will be going to public finances and nearly all is going to the sellers and producers?



  • Registered Users Posts: 80,795 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn


    Exactly, they rose substantially last year corresponding with when overseas travel was banned. It's clear people are bringing them back either for themselves or friends and family.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,619 ✭✭✭ShamNNspace


    This might have some bearing on the plummeting cigarette sales, many smokers went elsewhere to purchase their tobacco... Its from the Mof in the dail in answer to Louise o Reilly



  • Registered Users Posts: 993 ✭✭✭ballyargus


    Or people flying abroad to buy tobacco. Plenty justify the cost of a holiday with their tobacco haul



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,645 ✭✭✭yer man!


    Why is the price of drink in Ireland so much more expensive than most of the EU, I'm talking specifically about drinks that are already above MUP. Take for example Jameson Stout Edition

    Netherlands - EUR 24.95 (700mL) - https://drankdozijn.nl/artikel/fles-jameson-caskmates-stout-70cl?utm_source=googleads&utm_campaign=textfeed&utm_medium=shopping&gclid=Cj0KCQiA_c-OBhDFARIsAIFg3ezq08IFJbvAmjEpEgtBar94Dx3OZ0AIbRBvj_Za8_y5d5SJqSMIgVsaAqpvEALw_wcB

    Ireland - EUR 38.00 (700mL) - https://www.tesco.ie/groceries/Product/Details/?id=290739086

    It's hardly taxes and excise if the MUP stipulates that this product can cost no less than EUR 22.12 here.

    Is it just price gouging? I notice several other retailers charging the same in Ireland for this, it has me thinking they're a cartel.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,460 ✭✭✭Luxembourgo


    This is one of the biggest problems, the Government gets very little of the price increases, it goes to the retailer etc.

    This is a regular point of conversation in my circles who feel it is pretty ridiculous nanny state-ism. I think we are slowly changing our culture with regards alcohol especially within younger generations



  • Registered Users Posts: 683 ✭✭✭TallGlass2


    What's also worrying and will be more worrying with regards this type of tobacco and now an incoming increase in alcohol is how much of this stuff is actually fake, but very harmfully fake (cigarettes are harmful I get that, but I have smelt some of these 'cheap' cigs and the stink is like melted plastic).

    People, think they are getting a bargain, when in reality they might get a 1lt bottle of vodka for example and has a near lethal amount of ethanol due to zero quality control.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,750 ✭✭✭LillySV


    I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.

    its Consistent at this stage… anyone who gets out of bed to try do anything in this country gets further punishment day in day out from indirect nonsense taxes, charges and rules out against them… for our health and welfare of course … never stops … cost of everything is going through the roof as it was due to Covid and supply issues … what does govt do… increase carbon taxes to make sure transport costs increased…. Therefore increasing the costs of everything again….then they increasing vrt on cars even though brexit has already finished imports … they increasing cost of beers now in case you got any relief from relaxing on a sat nite …. What’s next !? They not too pushed about peoples welfare when they doing f all about housing … planning permission is now practically impossible to get for the standard person … frig all housing being built… govt supposed to do something about the housing and also to look into the nonsense set up they have where foreign investors can come in and buy up all the houses and pay little or no return on their investments … what have they done about it ? Nothing … still have full estates being bought up by foreign investors … Irish people looking for their own properties haven’t a chance … meanwhile u can bet your ministers and their pals interests are being well looked after



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,900 ✭✭✭cadaliac


    couple this now when they say, between alcohol and tobacco, I saved the price of a holiday



  • Registered Users Posts: 683 ✭✭✭TallGlass2


    @LillySV They seem to be eyeing the red meats or beef industry up, seen it a few times reported now that its bad for your health and the industry is bad for the environment.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,234 ✭✭✭HBC08


    I've been enjoying Mcgarrigles Double IPA since I first discovered it during the summer.Id have about 5 bottles a week,it was €1.98 in LIDL,its now €3.95,it has doubled in price.

    Now I know its on the stronger side (I like strong IPAs and Belgian beers in general,I don't like the idea of firing 10 cans of watery Heineken into me and feeling bloated)

    Would I be considered a heavy drinker,the problem drinker that this nonsense is supposed to target because target me very significantly it has.Thats over €500 a year extra on a few bottles at home.Thats the price of my car insurance or my house insurance or half my electricity or my heating for a year,that's fùcking scandalous.

    Now I know all of the above are necessary for living and it could be argued the few bottles isn't but I work full time in healtcare and also have my own side business that I set up myself.I work fùcking hard and the few bottles watching the rugby on a Fri night or in the garden on a sunny Saturday with friends are genuinely going to hit me hard in the pocket.

    My uncle died in his 50s after drinking himself to death,he had tried and all around him had tried for years to get him in somewhere,every conceivable impediment was put in front of him getting a place.What it all boiled down to was resources.....at least my money will now be going to treatment centres and general education right?..........no,erm OK at least it'll be going to the general tax take so I'll get some limited benefit from it right?......

    No,it's all going to supermarket profits who never even asked for it,hey good luck to them,I'd say they might be a bit sheepish taking the cash (I'd say they'll get over it) and they had nothing to do with this mess.

    This will effect and outrage younger voters of which I am not one.SF voted for this aswell as every other party but that'll be forgotten and spun when it comes to voting and it'll be put at the door of Ffg as another kick in the teeth for young people (and a growing number of the middle classes)

    You would seriously have to question the intelligence and general awareness of these people.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 16,675 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    From this week on I'll be doing a monthly trip to Sainsburys in Newry to buy all the booze and probably some other grocery items while i'm at it. I ain't paying these new prices.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,246 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    There's a LIDL now in Newry in the Buttercrane, which increases your options further. Hop between there and Sainsburys on a price compare, pick up some toiletries in SuperDrug and it's difficult not to have covered yourself for the trip.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,755 ✭✭✭sporina


    So, can someone explain this to me.. I only buy cans of Budweiser and the odd bottle of wine but no idea what the price of other drinks/brands are..

    So, am I right in thinking that, regardless of the brand now, the price will be the same - as in, at a min? ie: cheap beer like carling with no longer be cheap?



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,059 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Yes. The cheap brands will either be the same price as the normal brands, or gone.

    At least initially

    Its quite likely that the brewers and distributors will hike the prices of the "normal" and "premium" products to bring them above the price of the former cheap brands, so they still appear to be higher quality by virtue of price.

    Remember we have a beer on the market that was marketed as "reassuringly expensive"!



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  • Registered Users Posts: 858 ✭✭✭DarkJager21


    Really? Do you know why tobacco sales are plummeting? Don’t be so naive to think it’s because young people are “enlightened”, take a guess..



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,837 ✭✭✭✭rob316


    Its going to cost the average person about €500 a year who has a few bottles of beer at home on a Friday and Saturday night like myself. Joke really



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,077 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    It all depends on how much you like to drink.

    One example is a couple drinking six cans of beer and one bottle of wine per week.

    Hardly problem drinkers.

    Up until yesterday with careful purchasing they could have bought their drinks of choice for €11.

    Today with MUP their drinks will cost €18.

    That's €364 per annum extra from their after tax income for having a few drinks in their own home.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,811 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    Back to buying a years supply in Newry again! It's like 2007 all over again.

    Remember there used to be fights over parking spaces in the Quays and the Buttercrane?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,567 ✭✭✭quokula


    I agree because we have drinking problems in Ireland.

    It was introduced in mid 2018 and hospital admissions started dropping in the second half of 2018 as soon as it came into effect. They then saw a dramatic fall in deaths of a full 10% in 2019. This completely reversed a trend of increasing deaths that had been seen since 2012.

    2020 did see an increase again - but this was the first year of the pandemic and of national lockdowns which saw an increase in alcohol consumption everywhere, a finding made by multiple surveys which was born out in the statistics. Comparing to 2017, the year before Scotland introduced MUP, 2020 saw 1 extra alcohol related death per 100,000 people, while comparing the same stats for England showed 2 extra alcohol related deaths per 100k. So the MUP, which made for a large decrease in 2019, didn't completely undo the increase caused by lockdown in 2020 but it did half the impact of it.

    This is all according to official government data which is easily available on the ONS and NRS websites and has been amply reported, including some links I already posted. Based on the statistics it's safe to say there are several hundred people alive in Scotland today who wouldn't be without that policy being introduced, and countless more saved from severe illness no doubt. Whether you think that's a price worth paying to save yourself a couple of quid on your drinks is up to you, but personally I'd rather see fewer lives destroyed.



  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 3,180 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dr Bob


    Government bailing out the homebrew industry I see.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,981 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    I agree because we have drinking problems in Ireland.

    Are the Irish Heart Foundation wierdos or holy joes, just to be clear?

    Yeah, stick it to the man. Protest this alcohol reduction measure by (checks notes) reducing your alcohol consumption. That'll show em.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,381 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    It's not clear if overall alcohol consumption increased in the UK in 2020. Do you have figures for that claim?

    Wales introduced MUP in March 2020, at the start of the pandemic. Their profile for alcohol deaths tracked England (no MUP), not Scotland.

    So whatever is going on in 2020 with UK alcohol deaths, MUP does not explain it.

    You seem to be looking at raw figures, not age standardised.

    When compared with the 2019 registrations, the largest year-on-year increases in rates were seen in Wales and England, 17.8% and 19.3% respectively. This substantial increase in the death rates in 2020 was indicated in our quarterly report for England and Wales. In 2020, Scotland and England were the only UK constituent countries to show statistically significant higher rates when comparing with 2019. 

    Alcohol-specific deaths in the UK - Office for National Statistics (ons.gov.uk)

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,014 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Im not just going on sales. There is a noticeable shift that is obvious by just sitting in a cafe/pub outdoor area or just having a look at people on the streets.

    Even in the very busy pubs I worked in most ashtrays are empty and thats a very clear difference to when I stated in the trade



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  • Registered Users Posts: 24,014 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985




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