Fire at Nantes Cathedral

DelaneyIn · 19-07-2020 3:22pm

Phishnet wrote: »

Arson or an unfortunate accident ?

The fire started in three different areas of the cathedral.

SPDUB · 19-07-2020 3:23pm

Eason Warm Ufo wrote: »

Surely this would classed as 'helping police with their inquiries', or 'brought in (voluntary) for questioning' rather than the need for an actual recorded arrest. Then again the French may have their own way of doing things.

There's more penalties for laying under arrest than "helping the police" so it might help to bring more clarity to your explanation .

splashuum · 19-07-2020 4:03pm

Laughable seeing people defend this man as if he was the Messiah. He is the main suspect and should be treated as such for now.

Rodney Bathgate · 19-07-2020 4:05pm

DelaneyIn wrote: »

The fire started in three different areas of the cathedral.

A series of unfortunate accidents.

One eyed Jack · 19-07-2020 4:19pm

splashuum wrote: »

Laughable seeing people defend this man as if he was the Messiah. He is the main suspect and should be treated as such for now.

But sure there’s nothing to defend him from? He hasn’t been accused of anything by the French authorities. He’s only regarded as the main suspect by you, even though your own bloody article says otherwise!

What’s actually laughable is your attempt at guilt by association. Save it for jesus sake, you tried, you failed. Be grand.

Mr. Karate · 19-07-2020 4:20pm

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Right, and the person who started the fire is responsible for starting the fire.

At least we’ve cleared that much up.

So at best this guy is guilty not making sure the cathedral was locked up securely. Making it easy for the actual arson to get in and start the fires.

At worst he was in on it and intentionally left the cathedral unlocked so the arsonist can get in.

Invidious · 19-07-2020 4:28pm

Mr. Karate wrote: »

So at best this guy is guilty not making sure the cathedral was locked up securely. Making it easy for the actual arson to get in and start the fires.

At worst he was in on it and intentionally left the cathedral unlocked so the arsonist can get in.

Because each of the fires started next to an electrical appliance, investigators are looking for a possible electrical fault, which would imply that there may have been no arsonist at all.

One eyed Jack · 19-07-2020 4:40pm

Mr. Karate wrote: »

So at best this guy is guilty not making sure the cathedral was locked up securely. Making it easy for the actual arson to get in and start the fires.

At worst he was in on it and intentionally left the cathedral unlocked so the arsonist can get in.

There’s no at best or at worst about it, he could have locked the place up securely but vandals being vandals and all, y’know? If they’re determined enough they’ll overcome any security, and it still wouldn’t mean this chap was responsible, either for the vandals breaking in, or for the fire that was started. Even the French authorities themselves have said -

Prosecutors said it would be “premature and hasty” to brand the migrant, who was apparently responsible for locking the cathedral up the day before the fire, as an arsonist.

It appears he was taken into custody because there are inconsistencies in his timetable — but Nantes public prosecutor Pierre Sennès has stressed that this is “normal procedure” and that, so far, the authorities are not working under the assumption that he started the blaze.

See? No rush to defend anyone because there’s no need to defend anyone from anything when they haven’t been accused of any wrongdoing by the French authorities in the first place. That how the law works - due process, presumption of innocence and all that craic.

excludedbin · 19-07-2020 4:41pm

splashuum wrote: »

Laughable seeing people defend this man as if he was the Messiah. He is the main suspect and should be treated as such for now.

According to the prosecutor, there is nothing at present to "implicate him in the commission of the facts".

Laughable seeing the usual names leap at the chance to blame an immigrant despite having zero evidence. Equally laughable given the usual types would be first to screech "innocent until proven guilty" about the right kind of people.

Seems some need to look up the meaning of the word "suspect" because it doesn't mean "guilty in spite of any evidence or lack thereof".

Timberrrrrrrr · 19-07-2020 4:44pm

excludedbin wrote: »

Laughable seeing the usual names leap at the chance to blame an immigrant despite having zero evidence. Equally laughable given the usual types would be first to screech "innocent until proven guilty" about the right kind of people.

Seems some need to look up the meaning of the word "suspect" because it doesn't mean "guilty in spite of any evidence or lack thereof".

the same posters flock to threads about SYL everytime he does something stupid and cry about how he is treated unfairly and he is innocent until proven guilty (remember this is a several times convicted criminal).

excludedbin · 19-07-2020 4:57pm

Yeah but judging violent yobs on their past actions is just not on but collectively judging entire ethnicities is common sense. Just so long as they're not ethnicities you belong to, of course, because that's the evil lefty (((cultural Marxist))) academics conspiring to destroy white people. And if you don't watch these ten hours of Youtube videos about why this immigrant definitely did this thing there's no proof of them doing, you're just a dupe for the schemes of the (((elites))).

It's like they don't realise they're all singing from the same hymn sheet and once you've seen it once before they can't fool people again.

Mr. Karate · 19-07-2020 5:16pm

One eyed Jack wrote: »

There’s no at best or at worst about it, he could have locked the place up securely but vandals being vandals and all, y’know? If they’re determined enough they’ll overcome any security, and it still wouldn’t mean this chap was responsible, either for the vandals breaking in, or for the fire that was started. Even the French authorities themselves have said -

Surely a landmark building would have an alarm system that would have alerted the Police of a break in.

So if he didn't start it he certainly helped by not properly locking the doors and not turning on the alarm system.

One eyed Jack · 19-07-2020 5:31pm

Mr. Karate wrote: »

Surely a landmark building would have an alarm system that would have alerted the Police of a break in.

So if he didn't start it he certainly helped by not properly locking the doors and not turning on the alarm system.

Yeah you’d think alright. Could think a lot of things, but in order to convict anyone of any wrongdoing, you’d have to be able to provide evidence. Simply stating that a ‘Rwandan refugee arrested for deliberately starting 3 different fires from the inside of the St Peters and Pauls cathedral’, is an obvious falsehood. Even the article splashum linked to, contradicts their own assertion.

That’s all I wanted to clear up.

goose2005 · 19-07-2020 8:14pm

DelaneyIn wrote: »

The fire started in three different areas of the cathedral.

biko · 20-07-2020 8:36am

The Rwandan fella released without charge.
Investigation continues.

TomSweeney · 20-07-2020 9:06am

biko wrote: »

The Rwandan fella released without charge.
Investigation continues.

Yes, I imagine the investigation will just peter out to nothing ... deny deny deny .... no problem at all in France !!! - BIGOTS!!!

irishgrover · 20-07-2020 9:27am

TomSweeney wrote: »

Yes, I imagine the investigation will just peter out to nothing ... deny deny deny .... no problem at all in France !!! - BIGOTS!!!

sorry Tom, who are bigots? Are you suggesting some sort of mass conspiracy because they have not deported / locked up / executed the immigrant at this point?

biko · 20-07-2020 11:08am

If we look at church burnings around Europe, who has been responsible?
In Norway - Satanists.

In 1992, members of the Norwegian black metal scene began a wave of arson attacks on Christian churches. By 1996, there had been at least 50 attacks in Norway; in every case that was solved, those responsible were black metal fans.

In US - Satanists.

Holden Matthews, 22, admitted to starting the fires to raise his profile as a "black metal" musician, prosecutors said.
He burned three Baptist churches in the Opelousas area over 10 days beginning in late March 2019.

That said, it seems lefties isn't leaving churches alone either.

It would be quite a stretch to blame churches for George Floyd’s death, police brutality or Confederate memorials, yet houses of worship and religious statues are coming under attack in the protest mayhem.

Last weekend, at least four Catholic Church-affiliated buildings and statues from Boston to Los Angeles were set on fire or vandalized. A blaze that gutted the 249-year-old San Gabriel Mission, once led by Father Junipero Serra, is being investigated as possible arson.

“Given that there were four attacks on Catholic churches nationwide over a 48 hour period, from July 10 to July 12, suspicion, obviously, turns toward the left wing extremists who have been toppling statues of Saint Junipero Serra and attempting to remove a statue of Saint Louis,” Catholic Action League Executive Director C.J. Doyle said in an email.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/jul/15/black-lives-matter-protesters-turn-rage-churches-r/

biko · 20-07-2020 11:46am

About France itself
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/churches-destroyed-in-france/

Verdict: Miscaptioned

While this image is often shared as if it shows all of the churches that were “destroyed” in France, this map actually documents a wide range of nefarious activity, such as vandalism, theft, and arson, that occurred at both churches and cemeteries over an apparent span of two years (not four), covering 2017 and 2018.

It should also be noted that while this map does document some relatively serious crimes, such as arson or the toppling of church statues, many of these pins correspond to graffiti-related incidents. We also found one pin related to a person’s simply interrupting a church service.

You can find the real map on https://www.christianophobie.fr/carte
As you can see in the image there are different icons for different attacks.

is "Incendie criminel" - arson

biko · 20-07-2020 11:48am

Catholic Churches Are Being Desecrated Across France—and Officials Don't Know Why

Last Sunday, the historic Church of St. Sulpice in Paris was set on fire just after midday mass on Sunday, Le Parisien reported, although no one was injured. Police are still investigating the attack, which firefighters have confidently attributed to arson.

https://www.newsweek.com/spate-attacks-catholic-churches-france-sees-altars-desecrated-christ-statue-1370800

irishgrover · 20-07-2020 12:45pm

biko wrote: »

https://www.newsweek.com/spate-attacks-catholic-churches-france-sees-altars-desecrated-christ-statue-1370800

its funny, newsweek comments section is very similar to here....
the person being interviewed states
"The pressure is coming from the radical secularists or anti-religion groups as well as feminist activists who tend to target churches as a symbol of the patriarchy that needs to be dismantled,"

the response from the comments section is filled with - "what about da muslims" rage...

MontgomeryClift · 20-07-2020 3:42pm

It looks like the feminists and Flying Spaghetti Monster people are going to be thrown under l'autobus to protect the non-whites.

It's interesting watching the deck of protected groups being shuffled like this.

4068ac1elhodqr · 20-07-2020 4:07pm

'Newsweak' seem to be giving the feminists a hard ride^.

Surely the Churches of France are the least of their worries, when there are still manhole covers, on every street.
It's likely their activists have a greater manifesto to manoeuvre from, such as mandatory equal pay in the workplace.

Timberrrrrrrr · 20-07-2020 4:34pm

MontgomeryClift wrote: »

It looks like the feminists and Flying Spaghetti Monster people are going to be thrown under l'autobus to protect the non-whites.

It's interesting watching the deck of protected groups being shuffled like this.

Why do they need protection in relation to this incident?

fly_agaric · 20-07-2020 5:44pm

MontgomeryClift wrote: »

It looks like the feminists and Flying Spaghetti Monster people are going to be thrown under l'autobus to protect the non-whites.

It's interesting watching the deck of protected groups being shuffled like this.

Edit: If that is where people involved with the religion believe the trouble is coming from, I wouldn't tend to discount it.

With the "holier than thou" atheist types, bring up Christianity in any positive way (esp. the Catholic church here in Ireland) and the venom really starts to flow.

As with any angry group with a "cause", you could see a few of the stupider/younger or more violent types being inclined to take their hatred over into physical actions in the real world such as offensive graffiti/vandalism.

As for a hierarchy of protection, such people will (metaphorically) throw rocks all day at Christianity/Catholicism. Islam is immune from them IMO both due to minority faith status and the fact that Islamic fundamentalists react violently when Islam is seen to be "attacked", and doing so is a very dangerous business.

MontgomeryClift · 20-07-2020 10:19pm

fly_agaric wrote: »

Edit: If that is where people involved with the religion believe the trouble is coming from, I wouldn't tend to discount it.

With the "holier than thou" atheist types, bring up Christianity in any positive way (esp. the Catholic church here in Ireland) and the venom really starts to flow.

As with any angry group with a "cause", you could see a few of the stupider/younger or more violent types being inclined to take their hatred over into physical actions in the real world such as offensive graffiti/vandalism.

As for a hierarchy of protection, such people will (metaphorically) throw rocks all day at Christianity/Catholicism. Islam is immune from them IMO both due to minority faith status and the fact that Islamic fundamentalists react violently when Islam is seen to be "attacked", and doing so is a very dangerous business.

I'm aware of the anti-clerical atheist types, but we've had them for a long time and they haven't bothered to burn churches. It could be them, but I find it hard to believe.

I'm suspicious of these church attacks in diverse France, and I don't underestimate the eagerness of the French authorities to keep a lid on things by suppressing information about who's really responsible, or merely by neglecting to investigate when they suspect who's responsible.

Edit: I suppose I find it amusing that the feminist groups in particular can be blamed when the alternative is to blame immigrant groups. It's like the "Karens" in the US. They spend their lives on what they think is the correct side, only to find themselves out in the cold when the narrative shifts.

biko · 21-07-2020 11:13am

The damage doesn't look too bad. Hopefully it will be quick to rebuild.

jmayo · 21-07-2020 11:51am

biko wrote: »

About France itself
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/churches-destroyed-in-france/

Verdict: Miscaptioned

You can find the real map on https://www.christianophobie.fr/

That is very disturbing.
I wonder how much media coverage would we get if attacks were happening on the centres of worship of some other religions. :rolleyes:

jmayo · 21-07-2020 11:53am

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I've twice been in Barca twice mad that I never got to the GSF. Will do someday. Only took four trips to Rome to see the Pantheon.

Piece of advice, go to the Pantheon for mass.
The tourist throngs are not in there, you can just sit and take in the place for over half and hour.
Great way to relax for a while from hussle and bussle of Rome.

fly_agaric · 21-07-2020 2:19pm

MontgomeryClift wrote: »

I'm aware of the anti-clerical atheist types, but we've had them for a long time and they haven't bothered to burn churches. It could be them, but I find it hard to believe.

I'm suspicious of these church attacks in diverse France, and I don't underestimate the eagerness of the French authorities to keep a lid on things by suppressing information about who's really responsible, or merely by neglecting to investigate when they suspect who's responsible.

I don't know. Was only going on that posted 2019 newsweek article about France where it was some sort of religious group interested in keeping track of this stuff (not the authorities) which was quoted as pointing a finger at anarchists and extreme feminists in particular.

The Vienna-based Observatory of Intolerance and Discrimination Against Christians in Europe, which was founded in cooperation with the Council of European Bishops Conferences (CCEE) but is now independent said there had been a 25 percent increase in attacks on Catholic churches in the first two months of the year, compared with the same time last year.

Its executive director, Ellen Fantini, told Newsweek that while in many cases the motive for the attacks was not known, France faced growing problems with anti-Christian violence, especially by anarchist and feminist groups.

I know our "anti-Clerical" lot here in Ireland have not escalated to vandalism and desecration of churches.

The religious are supportive of rights of muslims & immigrants etc. but I think they would say so if they believed muslims were doing alot of it.

Fire at Nantes Cathedral

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