Handwriting decipher thread must post link to full page

CeannRua · 20-08-2015 12:06am

shanew wrote: »

here's a link to the corresponding transcript and image - the marriage took place in St. Mary's Marlborough St. (Pro-Cathedral) in 1861

The highlighted one would mean dispensation granted by parish Administrator, I think.

P. Breathnach · 20-08-2015 12:34am

CeannRua wrote: »

The highlighted one would mean dispensation granted by parish Administrator, I think.

Damn! Missed the highlighting. Yes, agreed.

In a cathedral, the Bishop is nominally the Parish Priest. An Administrator is a priest who undertakes the day-to-day work of the Parish Priest, leaving the Bishop free for the "more important stuff".

wexflyer · 20-08-2015 5:17am

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Dispensatio ab Archiepiscope - dispensation from the archbishop.

That is the first one in the image posted, but the OP is interested in the second one, which someone has (correctly I think) suggested is by the Admin.

Karen Cassidy · 20-08-2015 8:27am

Thank you all so much that makes sense! Slightly disappointed that it hasn't given me any genealogical info but cest la vie!

P. Breathnach · 20-08-2015 10:46am

Karen Cassidy wrote: »

Thank you all so much that makes sense! Slightly disappointed that it hasn't given me any genealogical info but cest la vie!

It hints at the possibility of genealogical info. They received a dispensation, which tells you there was an impediment to the marriage.

The most usual impediment was consanguinity, and if the dispensation was granted at the Parish Priest's level rather than at the Bishop's level (as in the one I incorrectly dealt with), it might have been that the couple were second cousins or thereabouts. Worth a little bit of digging, I would think.

Karen Cassidy · 20-08-2015 2:09pm

Yes but you can also I think have dispensation for not having done banns or being underage and possibly more that I don't know. Elsewhere on that page under dispensations it says Ter - I think that's what I remember which I read as 3rd degree relation so second cousin so figured that if they wrote that for one mine must be something different - if that makes sense?

Boscod · 20-08-2015 5:01pm

Hello, can anyone help translate / decipher the attached, which appears alongside a baptism record.
Thanks.

P. Breathnach · 20-08-2015 5:15pm

Boscod wrote: »

Hello, can anyone help translate / decipher the attached, which appears alongside a baptism record.
Thanks.

It looks to me like "Per proxiam Joannam Donnelly". I take it that this was written beside one of the sponsor's names, and it would mean that Joan(na) Donnelly was a proxy for that sponsor.

wexflyer · 20-08-2015 6:02pm

Karen Cassidy wrote: »

Yes but you can also I think have dispensation for not having done banns or being underage and possibly more that I don't know. Elsewhere on that page under dispensations it says Ter - I think that's what I remember which I read as 3rd degree relation so second cousin so figured that if they wrote that for one mine must be something different - if that makes sense?

Dispensations could be required for time, place, affinity, consanguinity, banns, age, plus who knows what else.

Boscod · 20-08-2015 6:02pm

Thanks P. It is beside one of the sponsor names, so what you are saying sounds spot on.

VirginiaB · 20-08-2015 6:32pm

Re dispensations, a very valuable book for Irish genealogy is 'Bishop Loughlin's Dispensations, Diocese of Brooklyn, 1859-1866', compiled by Joseph Silinonte and pub 1996.

The vast majority of the thousands seeking dispensations and listed in this book were Irish-born, as were their priests so the info may reflect practice in Ireland as well. Parents' names, counties, parishes of origin are often included with other valuable info.

Silinonte, now deceased, says that "by far the greatest number of requests were for Dispensation from Banns." For privacy reasons, he did not publish individual reasons for requests tho that is available from the archives of the diocese. He also says over 95% of requests were granted.

Wherever you may live, you may find relatives in this book with useful info for your research. It's out of print but available thru inter-library loan in the US. Maybe the NLI has a copy--they should.

CeannRua · 21-08-2015 7:31am

Karen Cassidy wrote: »

Yes but you can also I think have dispensation for not having done banns or being underage and possibly more that I don't know. Elsewhere on that page under dispensations it says Ter - I think that's what I remember which I read as 3rd degree relation so second cousin so figured that if they wrote that for one mine must be something different - if that makes sense?

'Ter' means 'three times' so would take this to mean that the banns were read three times as was usual. The note you queried is in the banns rather than impediments column so depending on how consistently the register was kept, the dispensation may just relate to banns.

wexflyer · 01-09-2015 7:18am

I wonder if anyone can help with the surname of the groom for the marriage on 15 February 1830, in Ferns, middle of page, on left
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634064#page/14/mode/1up
He is John Do....?, of what appears to be Blackwater, married Elizabeth Doyle of Clonee.

As an aside, I would note that at this period, the Ferns parish register tended to include the address of BOTH parties to the marriage, what joy!
Also, this marriage comes as a great surprise for me, as Blackwater is a long way from Ferns (relative to a day's walk!), so my family must have somehow been more prominent than I thought!
Thanks in advance

shanew · 01-09-2015 7:29am

John Downy ?

montgo · 01-09-2015 7:44am

I would agree with John Downy (Downey).

This Ferns register was very neatly written and much easier to read & research than many others.

wexflyer · 02-09-2015 6:08am

Thanks, I agree with Downy also, if belatedly.

Boscod · 09-09-2015 9:16pm

Any ideas on the the second line of the attached. It's a note in the last column of the 1890 baptism register entry for my relative.
Thanks.

Jellybaby1 · 09-09-2015 11:39pm

A bit of a guess......'Lived off Land Sale' ??

Hermy · 09-09-2015 11:40pm

married 2? December 1916
Luigi Lardi Sale

There's a corresponding record in the England & Wales, Marriage Index, 1916-2005.

Oct-Nov-Dec 1916
Bucklow, Cheshire
v.8a p.347

shanew · 10-09-2015 1:36pm

Hermy wrote: »

married 2? December 1916
Luigi Lardi Sale

There's a corresponding record in the England & Wales, Marriage Index, 1916-2005.

Oct-Nov-Dec 1916
Bucklow, Cheshire
v.8a p.347

some possible children for this couple on FreeBMD Index between 1918 and 1928, first two in Chorlton district and two more in Manchester S. district. (both close to Bucklow)

Boscod · 10-09-2015 4:40pm

Thanks for your inputs. Very interesting development indeed !

shanew · 10-09-2015 5:34pm

There's a death for this Christina in Manchester in the 3rd Quarter of 2000 - which gives her dob as 25 December 1891, and also a record (headstone transcript?) on FindaGrave

Hermy · 10-09-2015 5:44pm

Christina also appears on finbarconnolly.com as one of Ireland's longest living people!

EDIT: Too slow!

shanew · 10-09-2015 5:47pm

I'll p.m. Boscod with a few details on the children... bit recent for online posts

Boscod · 13-09-2015 8:24pm

I'm having a problem understanding the location of this marriage. I don't think it's Irish, possibly in England. I've found marriage records for Ilford and Wolverhampton, but can't make a definite name match to this.

Baptism record of Jane Byrne, born 7th Sept 1896, Sandyford Parish.

Thanks for your help.

CeannRua · 13-09-2015 9:01pm

Boscod wrote: »

I'm having a problem understanding the location of this marriage. I don't think it's Irish, possibly in England. I've found marriage records for Ilford and Wolverhampton, but can't make a definite name match to this.

Baptism record of Jane Byrne, born 7th Sept 1896, Sandyford Parish.

Thanks for your help.

Westland Row??

tabbey · 13-09-2015 10:10pm

Westland Row looks right to me also. However the marriage date of 1961 seems statistically unusual. It may have been a second marriage, or an error, perhaps my own error.

Boscod · 14-09-2015 8:33am

Thanks for your help, Westland Row looks spot on.
I wouldn't be surprised by the date of the marriage, but as I now have the Reg Dist I will investigate further.

Boscod · 16-09-2015 8:47am

tabbey wrote: »

Westland Row looks right to me also. However the marriage date of 1961 seems statistically unusual. It may have been a second marriage, or an error, perhaps my own error.

Well this one defied the stats! Westland Row was correct. Jane was 65 when she married and James was 68, described as spinster and batchelor.
James died in 1964 and Jane 1980. Another nugget.

tonycascarino · 18-09-2015 6:51pm

Hi..I was doing a bit of research & I was just wondering if someone could help make out the place name beside 15 - Married Patrick Gleeson of ?? & Bridget etc. The place name looks like it starts with P but I haven't a clue what it is. Maybe one of your eyes are better than mine.

http://mediasvc.ancestry.co.uk/v2/image/namespaces/1093/media/bf622c1c-1c8e-4085-afd5-457a91d033dd?client=TreesUI

Thanks in advance..

Handwriting decipher thread *must post link to full page*

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Handwriting decipher thread must post link to full page