Ireland is a pretend football country

upandcumming · 17-01-2021 11:40pm

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

Well it is, there’s not another ground compares at all.

Longford Town's stadium certainly does, and one of the few clubs that own their ground.

Did you smash it · 17-01-2021 11:40pm

dxhound2005 wrote: »

And our national team has used those resources to good effect since 1988. You tried to associate them with our club co-efficient, which is a totally wrong comparison.

It’s all part of the Irish football scene. Our clubs are below Luxembourg. You seem to think I’m just talking about the international senior men’s side only.

You saw my first post was about Dalymount?

OneEightSeven · 17-01-2021 11:41pm

Smee_Again wrote: »

Of course it does, look at the difference in facilities between most GAA/Rugby clubs and soccer clubs, there’s money there but the FAI just squander it.

There may not be Premier League type money but there’s potential for more growth.

Smee_Again wrote: »

The biggest barrier to football succeeding in Ireland is the FAI, not the GAA.

A popular scapegoat, but blaming the FAI just displays the ignorance of how football is organised across the world. Except for France, whose football association run a youth academy, it's up to the club's academies to develop players.

FAs don't give money to clubs or build stadiums and pitches like the GAA do. The players who helped Croatia reach the World Cup Final in 2018 were developed by mostly Croatians teams. FAs just organise football tournaments for youth teams spend little time training them. The training is up the clubs they play for.

The problem is two-fold:

1. The GAA. Ireland's population is too small to have this much sports diversity. We also have a lot of one-off houses thanks to Fianna Fail's laissez-faire policy on planning permission and the GAA hold the monopoly over the youth in our countryside townlands. Football clubs are located in towns, while GAA clubs can be found everywhere. In my area, kids from Oldtown and Garristown used to get their parents to drive them to Ashbourne to play for Ashbourne United, but if the wanted to play GAA, there are GAA clubs in both Garristown and Oldtown.

The decline of our national team seems to coincide with the rise of Dublin GAA. Can't be a coincidence.

https://www.statista.com/chart/14329/global-interest-in-football/

Spain, Portugal and Italy rank the highest in Europe for football and those countries produce buckets of talent. Sure, look at America, massive population and their players are rubbish. Participation rates are definitely a factor.

2. The popularity of English football in Ireland. Most football fans in Ireland are Premier League fans. This deprives our LOI teams of money to build facilities for youth teams.

Did you smash it · 17-01-2021 11:41pm

Brian? wrote: »

Underinvestment? Why invest in it at all? It’s a p professional sport that should invest in itself to be honest. Same with the IRFU.

Money should only go to grassroots football.

Ok, some countries don’t see it that way. We see it another way and our international sports scene is small time outside of horse racing.

dxhound2005 · 17-01-2021 11:45pm

Did you smash it wrote: »

Our clubs are below Luxembourg.

I don't understand that. Countries are not ranked by some sort of aggregation of their individual clubs coefficients. And anyway Dundalk are ranked above the top ranked Luxembourg club.

Did you smash it · 17-01-2021 11:49pm

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I don't understand that. Countries are not ranked by some sort of aggregation of their individual clubs coefficients. And anyway Dundalk are ranked above the top ranked Luxembourg club.

Ireland are ranked below Luxembourg on their clubs performance in international uefa competitions.

https://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/uefarankings/country/#/yr/2021

fryup · 17-01-2021 11:54pm

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Bob Marley, Mohammed Ali, Pele, Zidane all played in Dalymount.

Bit of useless information for a Sunday night.

Ali was Croke Park

irishguitarlad · 17-01-2021 11:59pm

Another factor is that Irish footballers need to expand their horizons a bit and should start learning a few languages. If they are going to be relying on premier league clubs to get their big break they are going to be waiting. Much better to move to the Belgian, Dutch, Portuguese or Austrian league and gain experience there. Might gain some European cup experience as well.

dxhound2005 · 18-01-2021 12:01am

Did you smash it wrote: »

Ireland are ranked below Luxembourg on their clubs performance in international uefa competitions.

https://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/uefarankings/country/#/yr/2021

And Liechtenstein population 38,000 are ranked above Luxembourg.

chrissb8 · 18-01-2021 12:03am

It's funny. Ireland is ruled by GAA and that's fine, but then are always shocked at how bad the national football/soccer team is. What do you expect when it gets nowhere near the investment of GAA. Which is great, as Ireland has its own cultural heritage through GAA and allows the nation to rally with pride around a true Irish created institution where so many other aspects of Irish culture are marginalised or seen as just afterthoughts.

But in that, there has to be an acceptance that soccer is huge here in Ireland and warrants much more investment. I love the sport and have been playing it since I was a kid all the way up until now, even have a ball I'll just dribble around the house when I'm bored.

The pitches are a state, the facilities are sparse, not enough all-weather/indoor pitches outside of Dublin. No real incentive to invest in grassroots level or improve the quality of the LOI across all areas.

The state of football pitches being flooded, filled with sand, bobbly surfaces does nothing for no one in terms of wanting to actually play a game of football i.e. play on the ground and pass the ball without it jumping 2 feet in the air or just stopping completely. Something that was the norm for me playing and ultimately turned me off waking up on a cold Sunday to go play on. It wasn't football, just hoofing.

No one is looking for immaculate Old Trafford turf, but if there were more of the above (all-weather) pitches it would mean Ireland's s**** weather wouldn't be such an issue. Why the season is over winter and not spring/summer has always been a weird one for me.

Then FAI sponsored development centres, with dedicated full-time staff would be a huge help, as it stands, there's really only one. There are real football people in Ireland with huge passion who are an untapped resource, but sadly they will have to make do with what's been given to them.

The level people want Ireland to reach in football will never be achieved unless there's a proper investment from the ground up. But don't put your hands on your head when Ireland come crashing out hard in the next finals they get to. All you have to do is look around and realise why.

Did you smash it · 18-01-2021 12:05am

dxhound2005 wrote: »

And Liechtenstein population 38,000 are ranked above Luxembourg.

I think that’s a bit of a statisical freak if I remember correctly for an obscure reason but it’s rather irrelevant anyway to the discussion.

chrissb8 · 18-01-2021 12:14am

irishguitarlad wrote: »

Another factor is that Irish footballers need to expand their horizons a bit and should start learning a few languages. If they are going to be relying on premier league clubs to get their big break they are going to be waiting. Much better to move to the Belgian, Dutch, Portuguese or Austrian league and gain experience there. Might gain some European cup experience as well.

This. 100% this. Tunnel vision of making it in England narrows the view of what it means to make it. Those countries you mention have quality teams and players in them who even sometimes amass a few shock defeats to top opposition in European competitions.

Very limiting to stop yourself because of something like a language. If some players in Europe can speak 5 languages then it's not much to ask.

Lost Ormond · 18-01-2021 12:17am

OneEightSeven wrote: »

A popular scapegoat, but blaming the FAI just displays the ignorance of how football is organised across the world. Except for France, whose football association run a youth academy, it's up to the club's academies to develop players.

FAs don't give money to clubs or build stadiums and pitches like the GAA do. The players who helped Croatia reach the World Cup Final in 2018 were developed by mostly Croatians teams. FAs just organise football tournaments for youth teams spend little time training them. The training is up the clubs they play for.

The problem is two-fold:

1. The GAA. Ireland's population is too small to have this much sports diversity. We also have a lot of one-off houses thanks to Fianna Fail's laissez-faire policy on planning permission and the GAA hold the monopoly over the youth in our countryside townlands. Football clubs are located in towns, while GAA clubs can be found everywhere. In my area, kids from Oldtown and Garristown used to get their parents to drive them to Ashbourne to play for Ashbourne United, but if the wanted to play GAA, there are GAA clubs in both Garristown and Oldtown.

The decline of our national team seems to coincide with the rise of Dublin GAA. Can't be a coincidence.

https://www.statista.com/chart/14329/global-interest-in-football/

Spain, Portugal and Italy rank the highest in Europe for football and those countries produce buckets of talent. Sure, look at America, massive population and their players are rubbish. Participation rates are definitely a factor.

2. The popularity of English football in Ireland. Most football fans in Ireland are Premier League fans. This deprives our LOI teams of money to build facilities for youth teams.

I think New Zealand, Iceland, many other examples show countries are not too small to have a diverse number of sports played to a high level.
There is soccer clubs in a lot more than the towns,

tastyt · 18-01-2021 12:48am

The FAI need to geographically spread the game . Kerry , Clare , Tipp , Mayo , Kilkenny, Kildare , all big populations with no team to identify with yet every young kid in those places and more can support and identify with their GAA heroes or Munster/Leinster/ Connaught. They feel those teams represent them and soccer is more of a tv show and they will shout for Ireland in a big game obviously.

Yes there has been regional teams before and they have gone to the wall because of lack of support but they were never set up in the communities properly, the way Sligo Rovers has been .

No excuses , proper investment in youth structures , get ingrained in the community, in the schools and don’t just have a group of players training in Dublin and coming down to play a game.

It all takes money and hard work , there’s no easy way and it would take years to build an identity in these counties. It’s a hard way but it’s the only way .

If football just sticks to the areas it always has well it will always be mediocre with a few lucky years and big international tournaments every few decades

Greyfox · 18-01-2021 12:54am

chrissb8 wrote: »

Very limiting to stop yourself because of something like a language. If some players in Europe can speak 5 languages then it's not much to ask.

Learning languages is very time consuming and something to do only after youve signed a contract.

Lost Ormond · 18-01-2021 1:20am

tastyt wrote: »

The FAI need to geographically spread the game. Kerry, Clare, Tipp, Mayo, Kilkenny, Kildare, all big populations with no team to identify with yet every young kid in those places and more can support and identify with their GAA heroes or Munster/Leinster/ Connaught. They feel those teams represent them and soccer is more of a tv show and they will shout for Ireland in a big game obviously.

Yes there has been regional teams before and they have gone to the wall because of lack of support but they were never set up in the communities properly, the way Sligo Rovers has been .

No excuses, proper investment in youth structures, get ingrained in the community, in the schools and don’t just have a group of players training in Dublin and coming down to play a game.

It all takes money and hard work, there’s no easy way and it would take years to build an identity in these counties. It’s a hard way but it’s the only way .

If football just sticks to the areas it always has well it will always be mediocre with a few lucky years and big international tournaments every few decades

Tipp doesnt have base or support for a team at that level. Clonmel would be only place for a team and there wouldnt be the base to support a team.
Clare so close to Limerick and then Galway not far either. Wouldnt really be that suitable for a team.

An Ri rua · 18-01-2021 1:26am

whisky_galore wrote: »

White water rafting is our national sport, that's why.

It is very prescient of the powers that be to be implementing this investment and getting our people ready. Strategically brilliant.

The jury was out on 2020, but now, now we're definitely up sh1t creek without a paddle.

Pull like a dog there Mīcheál...

Thelonious Monk · 18-01-2021 1:33am

I can't remember us ever having such a poor team as we have now either which is depressing. Not one player doing well at a top team now.

Strumms · 18-01-2021 3:30am

tastyt wrote: »

The FAI need to geographically spread the game . Kerry , Clare , Tipp , Mayo , Kilkenny, Kildare , all big populations with no team to identify with yet every young kid in those places and more can support and identify with their GAA heroes or Munster/Leinster/ Connaught. They feel those teams represent them and soccer is more of a tv show and they will shout for Ireland in a big game obviously.

Yes there has been regional teams before and they have gone to the wall because of lack of support but they were never set up in the communities properly, the way Sligo Rovers has been .

No excuses , proper investment in youth structures , get ingrained in the community, in the schools and don’t just have a group of players training in Dublin and coming down to play a game.

It all takes money and hard work , there’s no easy way and it would take years to build an identity in these counties. It’s a hard way but it’s the only way .

If football just sticks to the areas it always has well it will always be mediocre with a few lucky years and big international tournaments every few decades

The are clubs in most major population centers though.

Dublin : Bohs, Shels, Rovers, Pats,

Cork : Cork City

Limerick : Limerick FC

Kilkenny : Kilkenny City

Donegal : Finn Harps

Louth : Dundalk, Drogheda

Galway : Galway United

Waterford : Waterford United

Sligo : Sligo Rovers

The cities or population centers you’ve mentioned, should it be up to the FAI ? Or people on the ground... to sort out teams and be successful.

pgj2015 · 18-01-2021 9:53am

Greyfox wrote: »

Learning languages is very time consuming and something to do only after youve signed a contract.

Especially for a nation who learn their own native language from the age of 4 to 18 and which the majority still cant string a sentence together. Irish people in my experience are terrible at learning a new language.

pgj2015 · 18-01-2021 10:03am

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I can't remember us ever having such a poor team as we have now either which is depressing. Not one player doing well at a top team now.

caoimhin kelleher at liverpool.

Thelonious Monk · 18-01-2021 10:04am

pgj2015 wrote: »

Especially for a nation who learn their own native language from the age of 4 to 18 and which the majority still cant string a sentence together. Irish people in my experience are terrible at learning a new language.

So is every English speaking country tbf. Why would you bother when the world language is English and all popular culture is in English? You can see why it's so attractive to learn for non English speakers.
I've been learning Spanish for years, it's bloody difficult to get to a good level.

[Deleted User] · 18-01-2021 10:04am

pgj2015 wrote: »

caoimhin kelleher at liverpool.

He might never see a game for them again outside the league cup if Becker stays fit.

Thelonious Monk · 18-01-2021 10:05am

pgj2015 wrote: »

caoimhin kelleher at liverpool.

he's not playing!

pgj2015 · 18-01-2021 10:06am

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

He might never see a game for them again outside the league cup if Becker stays fit.

Thats the kind of optimism we need lol.

El_Duderino 09 · 18-01-2021 10:15am

Ireland is very poor at football, but people like watching and following football, so where’s the problem?

Irish cricket fans watch Ireland and they don’t expect to win everything, but it doesn’t mean they get upset about it. They follow, they support, they watch they cheer and they enjoy.

Why do Irish football fans have such unrealistic expectations? I think it’s because people follow football not because they look all around and pick foot bass their favourite sports - they start supporting football because everyone else supports it. How many people support Liverpool because their uncle worked in Liverpool in the 80s and brought them home a jersey?

I have English friends who support the local team through thick and thin. They’re always plotting ways for their club to climb the 10 leagues to the premiership. It’s more like supporting the local GAA team. They don’t expect that it’s going to win the club championship, but they support them
Through thick and thin.

I can’t think of anything more lonely than supporting a premiership club and having absolutely no real attachments to that club. I think the vast majority of football fans start supporting football before they even think about it. They are always p1ssed off by it and they don’t realise it’s because they don’t really like football.

[Deleted User] · 18-01-2021 10:18am

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Ireland is very poor at football, but people like watching and following football, so where’s the problem?

Irish cricket fans watch Ireland and try don’t expect to win everything, but it doesn’t mean they get upset about it. They follow, they support, they watch they cheer and they enjoy.

Why do Irish football fans have such unrealistic expectations?

Spoiled in a completely different era. There’s no realism towards the international side these days.

Thelonious Monk · 18-01-2021 10:20am

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Why do Irish football fans have such unrealistic expectations?

I would be happy if we had 2 or 3 decent players, that can make all the difference and I don't think it's unrealistic. Scotland have a few excellent players now and I'm envious after them being in the doldrums for so long. Tierney, McGinn, McTominay, Robertson, they could be the spine of a very good team. We've been lauding some of our youth coming through now but they never seem to make it if they're Irish.

pgj2015 · 18-01-2021 10:22am

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Ireland is very poor at football, but people like watching and following football, so where’s the problem?

Irish cricket fans watch Ireland and try don’t expect to win everything, but it doesn’t mean they get upset about it. They follow, they support, they watch they cheer and they enjoy.

Why do Irish football fans have such unrealistic expectations?

some have unrealistic expectations and forget its not 1994 anymore but most don't, some have even given up watching them, these are the guys who are big man u and liverpool fans. These are the kind of guys who you couldnt pay to go to a LOI match. I agree with a previous poster, they arent real football people. Then you have Irish people who say they support liverpool or man u, might even wear the jersey but would struggle to name a few players and wouldnt even know the results of their teams games that were on a few days before.

CorkRed93 · 18-01-2021 10:29am

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Ireland is very poor at football, but people like watching and following football, so where’s the problem?

Irish cricket fans watch Ireland and try don’t expect to win everything, but it doesn’t mean they get upset about it. They follow, they support, they watch they cheer and they enjoy.

Why do Irish football fans have such unrealistic expectations?

Getting to major championships from 1988-2002 and having a legitimately good squad for that 02 WC led people to believe it would all stay the same. 20 years on the PL is saturated with all the best global talent, very hard for irish players to get a look in like decades previous.

On LOI. I'm obviously bias as a fan/season ticket holder but there is definitely potential to grow the league here but calling out "bar stoolers" and the likes needs to stop. Those people will never be the possible fan. Likewise those who constantly go on with "the league is ****e so I just watch X EPL club instead" . Well thats obvious isn't it , if the players in this league were that good they'd be in England and going to games with that expectation is always going to lead them to the conclusion they want, which is its ****e so I'll never go again.

Clubs like Bohs and Sligo are the real case studies on how to build up fan bases properly. LOI could do worse than following the GAAs lead on the whole "community" aspect of sport aswell. Engaging locals to feel part of something is what its all about. Facilities take away from the experience in most cases too. Id love to see my own club and others sell the idea of nights out at games better. A few beers, watching a game with friends you might not see otherwise if it weren't for going to the game. Make it attractive and the casual fan will come back.

Ireland is a pretend football country

Comments