CONSTRUCTION LOCKDOWN JAN 2021

billybonkers · 02-03-2021 12:20pm

Pink11 wrote: »

We scrimped and saved to buy a house. Now we’re about to go into debt after another month paying rent and mortgage beyond upset and frustrated from the stress and worry, as is our builder.

What have the bank to say about all this? Surely they can be a bit lenient to you

Cienciano · 02-03-2021 2:13pm

I got a reply from the HSE after I outlined my issue. It's a link to here with a copy and paste of the text! https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/2dc71-level-5/#construction, nothing else!

scwazrh · 02-03-2021 2:20pm

Cienciano wrote: »

I got a reply from the HSE after I outlined my issue. It's a link to here with a copy and paste of the text! https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/2dc71-level-5/#construction, nothing else!

Standard response unfortunately. It appears the way people are moving is to go ahead and ask for forgiveness afterwards if questioned which is unlikely

Cienciano · 02-03-2021 2:41pm

Yeah, the current process is, go ahead if you think it's emergency and falls into the above criteria. If someone complains, we'll investigate. If not, you're grand

jayjay2010 · 02-03-2021 4:34pm

There are 3 new houses being built near me, I would say 80% complete and I was surprised to see that they are still being worked on despite Level 5 restrictions. I don’t believe that they are social housing. Any way for me to find out? More curious than anything!

Frozen Veg · 02-03-2021 5:37pm

Why should social housing be classified as essential over standard residential housing.

Family that are building their one off build and need a place to live should be just as entitled to build as social housing projects.

wolfyboy555 · 02-03-2021 6:23pm

Frozen Veg wrote: »

Why should social housing be classified as essential over standard residential housing.

Family that are building their one off build and need a place to live should be just as entitled to build as social housing projects.

True. Private buyers waiting on completion of new build estates overlooked too.

Cienciano · 02-03-2021 9:18pm

Frozen Veg wrote: »

Why should social housing be classified as essential over standard residential housing.

Family that are building their one off build and need a place to live should be just as entitled to build as social housing projects.

Exactly what my builder said. 2 of us working and paying tax and he cannot build for us but if he was working on social housing he'd be fine.

sydthebeat · 02-03-2021 9:32pm

Frozen Veg wrote: »

Why should social housing be classified as essential over standard residential housing.

Family that are building their one off build and need a place to live should be just as entitled to build as social housing projects.

thats a question that should be aimed at your local TD

Wildly Boaring · 02-03-2021 9:38pm

Pretty obvious really.

Any state contracts are pushing on.

They got a raft of claims for delay last March and gave avoided that by allowing social housing and any "essential" infrastructure continue.

So Irish water and TII have stopped nothing.
I mean is a new aeration tank for energy efficiency at a sewerage plant any more essential than a private housing estate?

They got hammered last year from every side.

Corby Trouser Press · 02-03-2021 10:34pm

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

Pretty obvious really.

Any state contracts are pushing on.

They got a raft of claims for delay last March and gave avoided that by allowing social housing and any "essential" infrastructure continue.

So Irish water and TII have stopped nothing.
I mean is a new aeration tank for energy efficiency at a sewerage plant any more essential than a private housing estate?

They got hammered last year from every side.

This country is run by the public sector, for the public sector.

NPHET want everyone under their beds for the rest of the year it seems.

Nobody wants to question them on the logic of these restrictions, in media or politics.

Small builder and self builder have no voice and no representation.

beggars_bush · 02-03-2021 10:44pm

private house up the road today

2 lorry loads of precast floor slabs
crane

no lockdown here

Le shovelle · 03-03-2021 11:18am

Local guard building a house not far from me. Hollow core slabs being fitted today by a northern Irish company.
I suppose were all in this together eh!

LCD · 03-03-2021 1:24pm

Can see quite a lot of building going on again in Co. Louth, neither essential or social

Speaking of guards, live beside one. Driving a northern reg car the last 6months & during 1st lockdown had the full on birthday part for his kid with the bouncy castle. You would know to talk to him that he isn't the brightest spark but has a touch of arrogance about him.

I am just having a moan because I am frustrated that my own build wont start again. Electrician is playing is safe doing nixers instead

Frozen Veg · 03-03-2021 8:29pm

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

Pretty obvious really.

Any state contracts are pushing on.

They got a raft of claims for delay last March and gave avoided that by allowing social housing and any "essential" infrastructure continue.

So Irish water and TII have stopped nothing.
I mean is a new aeration tank for energy efficiency at a sewerage plant any more essential than a private housing estate?

They got hammered last year from every side.

There are a number of new road infrastructure projects still going on in the West.

Which 'essential' criteria is that meeting?

Weepsie · 03-03-2021 8:34pm

There are a fair few private housing estates going up around d15 still, and there's an awful lot of people getting work done on houses on my road alone. I wouldn't be classifying any of them as essential either.

Gumbo · 03-03-2021 11:37pm

Frozen Veg wrote: »

There are a number of new road infrastructure projects still going on in the West.

Which 'essential' criteria is that meeting?

Infrastructure projects are allowed under SI4 of 2021.

(h) the repair, maintenance and construction of critical transport and utility infrastructure;

Weepsie wrote: »

There are a fair few private housing estates going up around d15 still, and there's an awful lot of people getting work done on houses on my road alone. I wouldn't be classifying any of them as essential either.

Most residential projects should be stopped but home adaptation works, grant funded works and repairs/maintenance are allowed.

Cienciano · 04-03-2021 11:08am

Gumbo wrote: »

Infrastructure projects are allowed under SI4 of 2021.

Most residential projects should be stopped but home adaptation works, grant funded works and repairs/maintenance are allowed.

You could easily say it's not "critical". Basically, if the project is big enough it won't stop. Just the plebs doing small projects. #allinthistogether

Bonzo Delaney · 04-03-2021 11:39am

What a lot of people here giving out about works still going on in houses are forgetting, is the mortgage and loan company's have stopped their mortgage and loan holiday option.
An awfull lot of trades people are self employed in the industry so still have the yearly running costs of their businesses to maintain regardless.
So most workers are and have to take any work they can get to keep afloat regardless in a safe a manner as they can.

scwazrh · 04-03-2021 11:45am

Bonzo Delaney wrote: »

What a lot of people here giving out about works still going on in houses are forgetting, is the mortgage and loan company's have stopped their mortgage and loan holiday option.
An awfull lot of trades people are self employed in the industry so still have the yearly running costs of their businesses to maintain regardless.
So most workers are and have to take any work they can get to keep afloat regardless in a safe a manner as they can.

Same argument can be used for pub staff but they don’t just open and work away .why is it different for trades people?

elvisn · 04-03-2021 2:28pm

Not sure if this is the right thread for this kind of question, but here it goes...

Does anyone know what kind of person/company I'd need to contact to come and inspect how my house was constructed and provide a report. I'm having an issue with the flooring upstairs, if you move around gently upstairs, the shelves, desks, wardrobes and floors in 2+ rooms will shake, it's getting progressively worse too. It's a new build house that's under 18months old, the contractor has "fixed" it once by putting in some extra screws. In one room the flooring has started to "sag" towards the middle so the dresser, crib etc now all tilts away from the walls towards the middle and we were told "sure you'll never get a floor completely level". So my only course of action now is to get someone in to rip up the floors and check if it was done right or not and provide a professional report if it's not correct so that I can go back to the contractor and him fix it properly. It's gotten to stage now where I'm worried the wardrobe might fall on us while we sleep, or the floor might cave in (possibly over dramatic), can't even sneak up the stairs without waking the kids, so it means everyone upstairs at 8pm, we're like prisoners in our own home.

Gumbo · 04-03-2021 2:40pm

elvisn wrote: »

Not sure if this is the right thread for this kind of question, but here it goes...

Does anyone know what kind of person/company I'd need to contact to come and inspect how my house was constructed and provide a report. I'm having an issue with the flooring upstairs, if you move around gently upstairs, the shelves, desks, wardrobes and floors in 2+ rooms will shake, it's getting progressively worse too. It's a new build house that's under 18months old, the contractor has "fixed" it once by putting in some extra screws. In one room the flooring has started to "sag" towards the middle so the dresser, crib etc now all tilts away from the walls towards the middle and we were told "sure you'll never get a floor completely level". So my only course of action now is to get someone in to rip up the floors and check if it was done right or not and provide a professional report if it's not correct so that I can go back to the contractor and him fix it properly. It's gotten to stage now where I'm worried the wardrobe might fall on us while we sleep, or the floor might cave in (possibly over dramatic), can't even sneak up the stairs without waking the kids, so it means everyone upstairs at 8pm, we're like prisoners in our own home.

Building Surveyor

elvisn · 04-03-2021 2:50pm

Gumbo wrote: »

Building Surveyor

Cheers, mind went blank and couldn't think of what to search. Got in contact with a company that are getting back to me. Thanks.

Corby Trouser Press · 05-03-2021 1:53pm

https://www.independent.ie/news/state-faces-legal-challenge-to-discriminatory-covid-19-construction-restrictions-40162601.html

State faces legal challenge to ‘discriminatory’ Covid-19 construction restrictions

The State is facing a High Court challenge to Covid-19 restrictions which have halted around 60pc of construction work across the country.

The case is being taken by Blue Whisp Ltd, a company controlled by businessmen Paddy McKillen Jr and Matt Ryan which had been building an apartment block at the site of the old Kiely’s Pub in Mount Merrion, Dublin.

It is the second legal challenge launched by the two businessmen over Covid restrictions.

Their Press Up group, which has substantial interests in leisure and hospitality, also sued the State over restrictions closing pubs and restaurants last year.

The latest case involves claims that while certain types of construction work is exempt from restrictions, other types, such as the construction of private housing, are being unfairly discriminated against.

The application for a judicial review was moved this morning by Rossa Fanning SC, instructed by Leman Solicitors, for Blue Whisp Ltd.

“We wish to bring an urgent challenge to the regulations on the basis they are irrational, disproportionate and discriminatory,” Mr Fanning told Mr Justice Charles Meenan.

He said it was an urgent and significant case. Regulations relating to what construction work can and cannot continue are due to be extended by the Government today.

“The significance of the case is that it would affect 60pc of the construction industry which is presently at a standstill. And there are very significant weekly costs being incurred by my client and clearly by other parties that would be interested in these proceedings,” said Mr Fanning.
The proceedings are against the Health Minister.

Mr Fanning said there had already been correspondence between his side and the minister in which minister rejected the claims being made.

The court heard that certain types of construction were exempt from restrictions, including work on hospitals, schools and critical transport infrastructure, but other types, including the construction work being undertaken at the Mount Merrion site, were not.

Mr Fanning said that in applying to strike down the regulations, his clients did not overlook the significant public health challenge posed by the pandemic.

“We accept the Government has had an unenviable task in seeking to strike a balance between protecting public health and permitting certain important economic activity,” he said.

“But we say this, and it is an important point. The criteria have to be based on public health.”

Mr Fanning said the minister, for example, can decide golf isn’t permitted. But it wouldn’t be permissible for the minister to say you can have golf on public courses but not on private courses or that men could play golf but not women.

“That would be a distinction in the regulations with no apparent connection to public health,” he said.

Mr Fanning said “public/private discrimination” was the “Achilles heel” of the construction regulations currently in place.

“There is a hotchpotch of different categories of construction, some of which are exempted and some of which are not. The exemption is determined by the purpose of the construction project, not by the public health effect,” he said.

Mr Fanning said construction on computer factories that manufacture microchips was exempt, as was building a data centre, or public housing construction that is about to conclude.

“But if I am engaged in the construction of private housing, that is excluded. We say that is a discriminatory criteria that is not relevant to public health,” he said.

Mr Justice Meenan ordered that the application be made on notice to the minister and adjourned proceedings for a week.

About time.

Not that he will get anywhere with it but worth a go at this stage.

DOCARCH · 05-03-2021 6:40pm

Would be good to have some clarity soon!

https://twitter.com/irishexaminer/status/1367852789422989319?s=21

Pink11 · 05-03-2021 8:11pm

Best wishes and thank you to the construction company taking legal action. It’s 100% not fair to allow some but not all.

I’m paying both rent and mortgage since early December. I need one builder to work for 5 weeks by himself and he’s not allowed since Christmas. We are not putting anyone in danger as we are renting a tiny apartment. The builder will be working alone at the property no interaction.

As usual the tax paying, law abiding hard working must suffer in this democratic country

Frozen Veg · 05-03-2021 9:37pm

Doesn't make sense either having lads claiming the PUP and working away at the same time.

Frozen Veg · 06-03-2021 9:46pm

For those that are adhering to restrictions and have not started or continued building.

If the government continue to extend the restrictions on construction into the summer, at what point are you going to decide you've had enough and just decide to get going with your project?

the_pen_turner · 06-03-2021 9:52pm

Frozen Veg wrote: »

For those that are adhering to restrictions and have not started or continued building.

If the government continue to extend the restrictions on construction into the summer, at what point are you going to decide you've had enough and just decide to get going with your project?

im a tradesman and have been adhering 100%. i did 2 small jobs that were very essential (a leak in a roof and making a wall safe). i could be working away on the QT but i am doing my bit.
but come april 5 i cant justify staying at home anymore while loads other are working away doing all kinds of stupid crap thats not even remotly essential.

Wildly Boaring · 06-03-2021 10:00pm

Bonzo Delaney wrote: »

What a lot of people here giving out about works still going on in houses are forgetting, is the mortgage and loan company's have stopped their mortgage and loan holiday option.
An awfull lot of trades people are self employed in the industry so still have the yearly running costs of their businesses to maintain regardless.
So most workers are and have to take any work they can get to keep afloat regardless in a safe a manner as they can.

Many "giving out" myself included, aren't really giving out.

My view is more that there are rules. There appears to be some enforcement of the rules. And then there is blatant disregard of they rules. For example I drove through my home parish and I see a groundworker I know well digging foundations on a new build.

It appears that the clients and builders following the rules are being penalized for actually following the rules.

So now we have companies like Flynn in trouble to the tune of 500k a week
https://amp-independent-ie.cdn.ampproject.org/c/s/amp.independent.ie/business/irish/interview-pandemic-pause-slows-flynns-march-40139142.html

The lockdown last year cost my employer 500k, we are now on a 4 day week.
70% of our sites are stopped.

I've heard of 3 major builders letting off salaried staff in the last week. 2 major builders imposing severe pay cuts. We have 2 clients in VERY precarious positions. Commercial builds with massive money owed and nothing bring built to pay back banks.

There are companies in severe financial distress but if they risk it and go building they could get away with it, or so it seems.

When I point out sites that are operating I'm not giving out. I'm more wondering what the story is?

For instance Walls kept building on a site I'm aware of, the guards called daily to ensure they were only doing a small bit of emergency works. Yet we have two clients with a couple of social houses in the estate and they are flat out building the whole estate. About 2 miles from that Walls estate.

CONSTRUCTION LOCKDOWN JAN 2021

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