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UFC 249 - Ferguson v Gaethje Sat May 9th

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 38,923 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Good one, but your post turned to cow**** when you decided to a pledge that Ali spoke worse than McGregor.
    Ali said and did some horrible things that history like to gloss over.
    I see a difference between charisma and ignorance, between manners and rudeness, between humility and hubris.
    There is a difference between all of those things. But they aren’t mutually exclusive. Separate traits.

    Ted Bundy was also by all accounts very charismatic. Of course he was also a rapist, serial killer and necrophiliac.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,370 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Mellor wrote: »
    Ali said and did some horrible things that history like to gloss over.


    There is a difference between all of those things. But they aren’t mutually exclusive. Separate traits.

    Ted Bundy was also by all accounts very charismatic. Of course he was also a rapist, serial killer and necrophiliac.


    I can’t comment on Ted, never met the guy.


  • Registered Users Posts: 54,495 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    cletus wrote: »
    "A black man should be killed if he’s messing with a white woman"
    "We’ll kill anybody who tries to mess around with our women"

    On being asked about a black woman being with a white man
    “Then she dies. Kill her too.”

    All direct quotes from Ali.

    This on top of refering to Joe Fraiser as "Uncle Tom” and a “gorilla” as well as “ignorant, stupid, ugly, and smelly.”

    Yes, we know....Ali lived in a time far different than today. He had his faults...he was brainwashed, for starters!

    He also had bags of charisma.....effortless.

    Jonathon Eig wrote a great book on his life.....the good, bad and ugly....

    But overall, he was undeniably a great human being......


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,370 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    cletus wrote: »
    "A black man should be killed if he’s messing with a white woman"
    "We’ll kill anybody who tries to mess around with our women"

    On being asked about a black woman being with a white man
    “Then she dies. Kill her too.”

    All direct quotes from Ali.

    This on top of refering to Joe Fraiser as "Uncle Tom” and a “gorilla” as well as “ignorant, stupid, ugly, and smelly.”

    If you want to take the small few quotes, without context or background and attribute them as being the measure of a persons character then you are doing their character a disservice, I never said Ali was perfect, he was a great sports person, he made some right and some wrong decisions in his life, but he had charisma, plenty of it.

    I had the pleasure of meeting him when he came to Ireland last, and he was a class act.


  • Registered Users Posts: 37,331 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    mdwexford wrote:
    I believe you have no idea what you are talking about.
    Short answer with nothing but an attempt to insult. I don't think I've ever read a post with any depth to it from you.
    derfderf wrote:
    He may have been burned out from the long camp, but the training for a non-striker is bull. He's was training for Gaethje for as long as Gaethje was training for him.
    A long camp is a killer, his camp went on far too long. He needed time off and then another camp for Gaethje.

    His energy, speed and power were below his normal level. He was training for a match where he'd spend a lot of time defending the takedown not taking power shots.
    .
    I think he needs to fire his manager and move to a new team.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,271 ✭✭✭✭mdwexford


    eagle eye wrote: »
    Short answer with nothing but an attempt to insult. I don't think I've ever read a post with any depth to it from you.


    A long camp is a killer, his camp went on far too long. He needed time off and then another camp for Gaethje.

    His energy, speed and power were below his normal level. He was training for a match where he'd spend a lot of time defending the takedown not taking power shots.
    .
    I think he needs to fire his manager and move to a new team.

    You have posted multiple disparaging posts about Gaethje since he won. All unfounded and ridiculous. Clearly you prefer Tony but it’s time to hold up your hands and admit he got destroyed. We saw nothing on Sunday to suggest a different result was possible. Yeah you claim Justin is ordinary and Tony would win a rematch easily.

    Almost everything you post verges on trolling to me because I can’t believe some of the tripe I’m reading.


  • Registered Users Posts: 37,331 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    mdwexford wrote:
    You have posted multiple disparaging posts about Gaethje since he won. All unfounded and ridiculous. Clearly you prefer Tony but it’s time to hold up your hands and admit he got destroyed. We saw nothing on Sunday to suggest a different result was possible. Yeah you claim Justin is ordinary and Tony would win a rematch easily.
    So you don't bother to take up anything I've said and challenge it only post that I'm wrong. And that's your opinion although you say it like it's a fact.
    mdwexford wrote:
    Almost everything you post verges on trolling to me because I can’t believe some of the tripe I’m reading.
    This is just pathetic schoolboy attempts to insult.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,811 ✭✭✭cletus


    If you want to take the small few quotes, without context or background and attribute them as being the measure of a persons character then you are doing their character a disservice, I never said Ali was perfect, he was a great sports person, he made some right and some wrong decisions in his life, but he had charisma, plenty of it.

    I had the pleasure of meeting him when he came to Ireland last, and he was a class act.

    And people have met McGregor, and said he was also a class act.

    The above comments are not "out of context" as I wasn't contextualising them. I'm not disagreeing that Ali was charismatic, I'm simply pointing out that horrible nasty comments can be made by charismatic people.

    As regards you not knowing whether Ted Bundy was charismatic or not as you had not met him, surely your personal interactions with people are not how we establish charisma?


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,145 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    eagle eye wrote: »
    So you don't bother to take up anything I've said and challenge it only post that I'm wrong.

    To be fair, things like "If Tony had a full camp...." are completely hyperbolic.

    There's not much challenging you can do to that kind of thinking.

    Talking about his camp being too long and opponent changes etc...... it's all excuses.

    Would the fight go a different way on a different night? Who knows! He got beat by the better man on the night. That is the only fact here.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,811 ✭✭✭cletus


    walshb wrote: »
    Yes, we know....Ali lived in a time far different than today. He had his faults...he was brainwashed, for starters!

    He also had bags of charisma.....effortless.

    Jonathon Eig wrote a great book on his life.....the good, bad and ugly....

    But overall, he was undeniably a great human being......

    Unless, of course, you were one of the women he treated abismally. His having charisma does not automatically mean he was a great, or even nice person.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 54,495 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    cletus wrote: »
    Unless, of course, you were one of the women he treated abismally. His having charisma does not automatically mean he was a great, or even nice person.

    Like I said, he had his flaws....we all do

    As regards his charisma.....well, he is and was the most iconic and beloved sports athlete of all times..

    Hey, and those women, like a lot, aren't completely innocent......there is responsibility for oneself...back then, and today!!!!!!!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,370 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    cletus wrote: »
    And people have met McGregor, and said he was also a class act.

    The above comments are not "out of context" as I wasn't contextualising them. I'm not disagreeing that Ali was charismatic, I'm simply pointing out that horrible nasty comments can be made by charismatic people.

    As regards you not knowing whether Ted Bundy was charismatic or not as you had not met him, surely your personal interactions with people are not how we establish charisma?

    And people have met McGregor and said he isn’t a class act.

    This is getting pretty childish. If you want to think someone Like McGregor is charismatic then go you, that’s your call.

    My personal interactions with people are most definitely not how you should establish charisma, but it is a major deciding factor for me deciding it.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 10,461 Mod ✭✭✭✭Axwell


    Lads this is the UFC 249 event thread..not the place for discussing McGregors charisma..back on topic


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,884 ✭✭✭SlowBlowin


    I thought the funniest part of the night was when DC and Rogan realised that the fighters could hear what they were saying !!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 146 ✭✭PyreOfHellfire


    Sorry Ax for dragging off topic just thought someone needed a dictionary.


  • Registered Users Posts: 37,331 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    MrStuffins wrote:
    He got beat by the better man on the night.
    And I never disputed that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,145 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    eagle eye wrote: »
    And I never disputed that.

    Of course not. Only a blind, deaf and lobotomised man would. Justin put a prolonged and sustained beating on Ferguson.

    But rather than give any credit to the winner of run the fight you've made a litany of excuses on behalf of Tony including:

    - Camp was too long
    - He was training for a grappler (Poor Tony had obviously never seen kickboxing before Sat night and were completely blindsided by this new-fangled striking stuff)
    - Took the fight on short notice (One fighter was actually training for a fight up to this point and it wasn't Justin)
    - He needs to fire his manager
    - He needs to move camps

    It's like something pulled directly from the Conor McGregor thread. It's almost a full house on the bingo card of fighter excuses.

    And all complete hyperbole, without giving any sort of credit to the man who won the fight.


  • Registered Users Posts: 37,331 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    MrStuffins wrote:
    And all complete hyperbole, without giving any sort of credit to the man who won the fight.
    And you've just decided that Tony is that? You are willing to completely dismiss all he has accomplished to that point in his career. He went in a hot favourite the other night, wonder why?
    It's not often people get it that badly wrong.
    We seen a shadow of the normal Tony and it wasn't because Gaethje changed his game that much. Gaethje got very good advice from his corner for sure but he didn't start out patient and relaxed and still Tony wasn't able for him.
    This had a lot more to do with Tony not being ready for the fight than it had to do with Gaethje upping his game.
    Before this fight Gaethje didn't have a big name win on his record. I'm telling you right here and now that there won't be another, unless a similar situation as regards a long camp arises, so you can quote me if it happens.
    You'll see that I was saying before the fight that this shouldn't be for the right to face Khabib because Tony had already earned that right.
    Tony said himself after the fight about the long camp and how most of it was preparing for a non-striker. I presume you are calling his words crap like you are calling mine? Tell me the last time you remember be Tony talking crap about his prep.


  • Registered Users Posts: 29,437 ✭✭✭✭Zero-Cool




  • Registered Users Posts: 7,733 ✭✭✭ASOT


    Zero-Cool wrote: »

    That's class. Was very surprised that Dom said that, he should have a bit more cop on. Especially as he's an analyst now.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,145 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    eagle eye wrote: »
    And you've just decided that Tony is that? You are willing to completely dismiss all he has accomplished to that point in his career. He went in a hot favourite the other night, wonder why?
    It's not often people get it that badly wrong.
    We seen a shadow of the normal Tony and it wasn't because Gaethje changed his game that much. Gaethje got very good advice from his corner for sure but he didn't start out patient and relaxed and still Tony wasn't able for him.
    This had a lot more to do with Tony not being ready for the fight than it had to do with Gaethje upping his game.
    Before this fight Gaethje didn't have a big name win on his record. I'm telling you right here and now that there won't be another, unless a similar situation as regards a long camp arises, so you can quote me if it happens.
    You'll see that I was saying before the fight that this shouldn't be for the right to face Khabib because Tony had already earned that right.
    Tony said himself after the fight about the long camp and how most of it was preparing for a non-striker. I presume you are calling his words crap like you are calling mine? Tell me the last time you remember be Tony talking crap about his prep.

    More hyperbole and excuses.


  • Registered Users Posts: 37,331 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    MrStuffins wrote:
    More hyperbole and excuses.
    There's no hyperbole in my post. Maybe you need to go learn what hyperbole actually means


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,370 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Sorry Ax for dragging off topic just thought someone needed a dictionary.

    Thesaurus maybe?


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,145 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    eagle eye wrote: »
    There's no hyperbole in my post. Maybe you need to go learn what hyperbole actually means

    You'd be the man to ask if I needed a lesson ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,271 ✭✭✭✭mdwexford


    eagle eye wrote: »
    And you've just decided that Tony is that? You are willing to completely dismiss all he has accomplished to that point in his career. He went in a hot favourite the other night, wonder why?
    It's not often people get it that badly wrong.
    We seen a shadow of the normal Tony and it wasn't because Gaethje changed his game that much. Gaethje got very good advice from his corner for sure but he didn't start out patient and relaxed and still Tony wasn't able for him.
    This had a lot more to do with Tony not being ready for the fight than it had to do with Gaethje upping his game.
    Before this fight Gaethje didn't have a big name win on his record. I'm telling you right here and now that there won't be another, unless a similar situation as regards a long camp arises, so you can quote me if it happens.
    You'll see that I was saying before the fight that this shouldn't be for the right to face Khabib because Tony had already earned that right.
    Tony said himself after the fight about the long camp and how most of it was preparing for a non-striker. I presume you are calling his words crap like you are calling mine? Tell me the last time you remember be Tony talking crap about his prep.

    Who is dismissing anything. He is a former champion and a top notch fighter.

    He went in a 1/2 fav, far from super short. Those sort of prices lose on every fight card, by no means a major upset.

    Tony wasn’t at his best. Nobody knows why. Cutting weight previously was stupid in my opinion. Regardless I believe Justin is a better fighter.

    Why do you come out with statements like he will never beat another big name fighter. It’s things like this that make you come across ridiculously. He’s a top class fighter who can beat anyone in the world on a given night. Same as most of the rest of the top guys/girls in most divisions.

    You can’t lose a fight and still be ahead of the guy who beat you in the pecking order. Not how this works and never has been.

    All of them train and prepare for everything. This he wasn’t ready for a striker thing is silly. If his camp went wrong he only has himself and his team to blame.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,762 ✭✭✭bmcc10


    eagle eye wrote: »
    Tony said himself after the fight about the long camp and how most of it was preparing for a non-striker. I presume you are calling his words crap like you are calling mine? Tell me the last time you remember be Tony talking crap about his prep.

    This is the same Tony Ferguson who said just over a month ago that he hasn't sparred since the Thibau fight but him preparing for a non-striker this time is the excuse? Give over.


  • Registered Users Posts: 38,923 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    eagle eye wrote: »
    And you've just decided that Tony is that? You are willing to completely dismiss all he has accomplished to that point in his career. He went in a hot favourite the other night, wonder why?
    It's not often people get it that badly wrong.

    Aspects of Tony's game were vastly overstated by mma-fans and media. Prticular his jiu jitsu. That's not a recent opinion.
    He was a rightful favorite, as Justin had his own flaws to this point. But favorites lose all the time. "It's not often" makes no sense to me.
    We seen a shadow of the normal Tony and it wasn't because Gaethje changed his game that much. Gaethje got very good advice from his corner for sure but he didn't start out patient and relaxed and still Tony wasn't able for him.

    Not starting out patient and relaxed make it harder for Tony, not easier.
    The reason he was told to ease off was so he made it to the 5th.
    This had a lot more to do with Tony not being ready for the fight than it had to do with Gaethje upping his game.
    The improvement in Justin's game was very very obvious. And a huge factor.

    Tony never got going. He look bad, but he hasn't exactly been flawless in the past.

    Round 1 vrs Lando he looked terrible.
    Round 1 vrs Kevin Lee he looked bad.
    Pretty sure he was down a round to Pettis also.

    In those 3 fights he found a stoppage. But he looked to be losing each at one point. He was down 2-1 to RDA.
    For somebody with a record streak, Tony spent a lot of time behind in fights. This time he just didn't get out from behind.
    You'll see that I was saying before the fight that this shouldn't be for the right to face Khabib because Tony had already earned that right.

    And you'll see that I said it's Tony's decision to put that right on the line or not. He risked it and lost.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,132 ✭✭✭akelly02


    Zero-Cool wrote: »



    that whole page is absoulutely class !!!!!!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,382 ✭✭✭Beersmith


    Anyone else absolutely hate the tweets appearing mid fight! ****ing so annoying!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,145 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    Beersmith wrote: »
    Anyone else absolutely hate the tweets appearing mid fight! ****ing so annoying!

    I actually quite like it


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