What's next.

So this hasn't gone well start a log, get a knock

Went out of any easy run on Monday, very easy pace, legs a bit stiff but left ok until I hit 5K and had to pull up with a big knot in my calf. Came to a complete halt and had to stretch it out. Tried to run again and it was still locked so stretched again and thankfully got moving enough to turn back for home at a slow trot....... Just shows you how careful you have to be when adding in more effort. Between the intervals and being back on the bike I'd say it should have been a rest day, too late now. Have used voltirol a few times and had a foam roller at home so have tried that it. Seems a little better today but not good enough to run on. Will leave off running now until next week, have a swim and a cycle lined up for Friday and Saturday and hopefully they won't antagonise it.

MisterJinx wrote: »

Going to try the new trainers this evening on a short easy one

Didn't go well, calf went again. Got going and ran home with some pain but wasn't right. Booked the physio and stopped running.

First physio visit and went ok, no real damage and diagnosis was adding too much stimulus in the previous weeks training. Got some exercises and some general great other points and tips on getting some other muscles firing and working better. Another week off but got a bike in, HR stayed stubbornly low even though effort was high

Sunday 13th - Was supposed to wait until seeing the physio on Tuesday but had to get moving at this stage and everything was feeling fine. Warm outside and a misty rain, couldn't have asked for a better way to get back and the mood was infinitely better once home. Also marked out a couple of hills in a local park, a 4% and a 10%... (14K @ 5.40/km)

Monday 14th - Pool swim

Tuesday physio - all you need to hear is that you are fine and that you can get back at it, nothing serious and some more exercises to get co-contractions working better and some better hip movement.

Now that life is moving more since lockdown ended there are a lot more organisation and co-ordinations required in the daily schedule, it was still busy either way though, so now trying to slot the things I enjoy in without it being an issue at home so looking at following the plan below, roughly based on on boards graduate 5/10k plan but to suit my availability and slotting in the appropriate times for the sessions

Monday - Swim
Tuesday - 60 minute easy run @ 5:30->6 min per km
Wed - alternating Hills & Intervals CV @4:10, AP @3:55, Vo2Max @3:50
Thursday - bike
Friday - Tempo @ 4:35 or Threshold @ 4:20 min per km
Saturday - usually too busy for training
Sunday - LSR capped at 2 hours @5:30 per km

I'll progress each of the Wednesday and Friday sessions in line with the Grads 5/10K plan and as things always change I'll aim to just add in 60 minute easy runs should some of the other activities fall out. I'm not sure right now how Friday will work out but we'll see.

Wednesday 29th - club session of 8x400's but slightly short...
This was a good session and delighted to be running with people again. You do tend to put much more effort in when there are others around you and i like the shorter stuff. Based on the paces (cause it was short) went form 3:35min/k down to 3:05min/k.

This is some food for thought and if I was to do the mile TT again would give me a target of 5.20 for the mile if I held a 3:20min/k pace which should be manageable on a good day and if I was able to control the starting pace.


Saturday 1st August - 10km easy - exploring the countryside on holiday.
Friday 7th August - 14Km easy - still exploring the lanes in the countryside
Monday 10th - 10km easy with a faster finish.

In a quandary on what to do tomorrow, should be hills but might try to get to club intervals on Wednesday, will see how the legs feel tomorrow and decide. Back to back intensity isn't good however feel i'm in a stronger position now than a few weeks ago with some good rest from running on holidays although a full belly from lots of take away which is a special treat :-)

Monday 31st 9.5k @5.35 min/k avg HR 142 around the roads. Nothing but a run to clear the head after the day and nice and easy after the tempo session on the Sunday. No ill effects on the legs or with the back.

Tuesday - technical support for my aunt!

Wednesday - was supposed to be intervals but work was very busy and with the exception of 30 minutes lunch didn't move from the home office and at 6pm didn't feel like saying I was heading out for a run to the family so we had dinner instead.

Thursday - 60km bike, nice ride and was with some faster riders so pushed along the pace which was great for a change and felt like a good workout.

Friday - Hills 10 x hill sprints. After missing Wednesday I really wanted to get out so squeezed this in before the taxi runs to various activities.

Used the Hoka's for this as it was a speed session however it started to rain as I left for the hilly park. They are simply no good in the rain, very little grip and going up the hills I was loosing traction on the tarmac. To combat this I had to take to raising the knees higher rather than curling the toes and gripping as I do when going fast which is probably better form and beneficial for technique but overall I won't take these out again in the wet.

Generally good session, 9km's with 10 hills, jog down and 1 minute rest. Quads really felt it on the way home.

Sunday 6th 13km very easy run @6min/k avg HR 141. Just a really nice run, weather was beautiful, didn't have time to go round the PP so just enjoyed this. Legs felt great and was thinking that perhaps I'm an every second day runner rather than every day based on how I felt on each run this week. The hard sessions are fine with me but running every day does seem to take the bounce out of my legs. I got a copy of the Science of running as an ebook after I say someone else's log mention it in relation to fast twitch/slow twitch and had a quick scan but must go back and read it and see if there is anything interesting or applicable in it.

By this stage 1 of the kids has had a cold and passed it to the other one who has gotten it worse and now passed it on to me! Looking at the class whatsapps it looks like nearly a third of the kids have had or are coming down with something already, to be expected but amazing how quickly things spread even with all the precautions etc...

It's been a little while! Well I got my long cycle in which was really good and delighted with the achievement +120Km for the first time, felt good the whole time and sorted out some nutrition on the bike which made a world of difference.

Decided to pick up where i left off then and get back running.

Decided then that I might go for the 1mile TT in the next week or so was thinking the Wednesday would be good so went out to see how the legs were on the Tuesday

22/09 8.5Km @ 5.40km/m there was nothing in the legs at all. Dead. Had the long bike ride coming up so there was no point in trying to flog a dead horse.

29/09 same as above after the long bike ride, felt fine but not bouncy which was understandable considering the long bike ride.

01/10 Decided on a tempo 5K to see where I was not at, 5Km @ 4.25k/min. First time I had run at this pace in quite a while to it hurt but wasn't maxed out.

02/10 7.5K @ 5.30k/min pace just to stretch out the legs nothing special.

03/10 - walking the dogs. As I'm looking one way they decided to pull in the completely opposite direction while I'm not prepared....... 3 weeks of back pain, lovely.

24/11 Evening run this time, 6k easy with 10 x fast strides at the end. Dark, wet and cold out but really enjoyed it.

25/11 Interval run, easy 3k warm up then 2,5K @ roughly 10K pace which worked out at 4.20m/km pace. After done some strides in the 3rd km to warm up I could feel the lactate from yesterdays run so I wasn't expecting much and I did find this very tough even on such a short run at only a 10k pace but I definitely felt the benefit of having to push on "tired" legs and working through it.

Focus now over the next few weeks needs to be on the longer intervals at 10k and 5k pace in order to be in good shape for the TT, although my wife wants to do a 10k TT one on the same day and asked me to run with her so I'll pace her on the day and do my own a few days later.

The rest of the week and the weekend was a write off with life and stuff so back on it this week....

And the last one of the year and what a year it's been!!!!

09/12 - 6k lunchtime run, from what I remember it was slow and leggy....

11/12 - 10k after work and another stress buster. Cold so kept it tempo @5.10m/k pace.

13/12 Sunday LSR, decided again to keep mixing up the pace on this run 6k @5.30m/k pace warm up, 5K @ 4.30m/k pace and 2k home up the hill. I'm liking this instead of steady easy running all the time. After doing so much LSR pace i'm finding I need to get used to the comfortably uncomfortable and the bodies reaction to it, once you are a few minutes in you settle and get on with it and it's not as hard as you think, does the confidence good to know you can do it.

14/12 & 16/12 2 very easy trots around the block at lunchtime

19/12 10K pace setter for her glorious self at the bull wall. The wind and weather was terrible so she put getting a PR out of her mind. The first 1K was horrific but the wind behind us head down towards howth felt great. The path then ended and she barrelled up a grass embankment to run on the grass, big mistake, she lost all her rhythm, turned into cross winds and the wheels fell off for 3k. With 3k to go she got her rhythm back and we push home against the wind for a strong finish in 53 minutes. It was a struggle and I think she was disappointed however the conditions weren't with us and it was a triumph to finish. I'll see if she would like to do a 5k TT in the new year.

20/12 13K with the same 5K in the middle at higher pace. Feet were sore I think from the socks I was wearing and same trainers as the previous day's 10kTT which while was comfortable pace wise was a fair effort with the wind. Beautiful sun shine out and I suspect the hangovers were in full flow as it was quiet considering I only headed out at 12. Nice to see however that the 5K interval at what I perceived to be 10K pace again was this time at 4:20 m/k pace which is an improvement on the last couple of runs on the route which were 4:30 pace.

That's probably me for the year, if i get out great, if I don't I won't worry about it, think I've done a fair bit this year. Got a new watch and it's telling me that I'm as fit as a 20 year old and that I need to take a break and rest, can't complain about that

Year to date 114 runs, 1,164 km's, 1 mile & 5k PB's and a tone of endurance built up. I think as well that I've found the right cadence for me at the moment at least with 4 runs a week, it seems to balance fitness and freshness. Looking forward to next year and seeing what it brings, the only way is up (and to beat those 2 PB's from this year...)

I knew it would be painful and that I wouldn't get a time I was going to be overly happy with but I figure it is better to know where I am and see the time and put that impetus into the plan and improving.

Deciding on a location was difficult but picked a local park without many people in it due to the fact it's wind, a bit hilly and exposed which was going to make it a challenge in any case!

Picked the loops and set up the watch - new watch so lots of fiddling!!!
Headed off into the wind and as per usual, despite all my mental reminders and talking to myself to run conservatively for the first 2k I was out the door running at 3.30m/k pace for the first 500m but did slow it down quickly enough and got a rhythm at just under 4m/k pace.

First loop and up the hill was managed but difficult, second loop and I'm coming around to the hill again and I look at the distance, 3.76k and I'm gassed going up the hill, it's totally took the wind out of my sails and I'm despondent! I was slowing down to 4.30 pace getting up the hill and really no looking forward to the last 1.24k

My course planning wasn't that great when I realised my short final look had to go up the hill again to finish close to where I had left my gear.....

The watch tells me I've finished the workout set for 5K, do I hit the stop button or does it do it itself, the little frustrations of technology.

Strava tells me 5k in 20:58. I've a minute improvement to make up over the next 6 weeks to reach goal number 1 for 2021

So I was following another log, can't remember which and there was a discussion around HRV and using this instead of % of Max HR for Zone calculation.

This got me doing a little bit of research on the Garmin connect app and looking at various different methods for HR Zone calculation. Now I'm not a slave to these but do try and run my easy runs in Z2 and it keeps me in check.

Why i'm interested in this is I though I might use the resting HR (51) - Max HR as a way of calculating zones so I could probably up the pace some more on the LSR's and get a better placement for tempo runs.

So I was interested to see with the new garmin watch would it have different readings from my old TomTom. As the Tom Tom had recoded several high heart rates for me, 199, 200 & 201 all in races when it was hot i.e. anything above 25 degrees! These seemed high so I was always sceptical considering my max by the standard 220 - age should be 176. I had recorded 187 on the bike for similar conditions.

Also to note, I'm fair, not very hairy and keep the watch tight so based on research I think that I'm probably a fairly good subject in terms of getting a good optical HR reading.

So on the bike first during the week, it was a really hard session and I was totally spent by the end and it was max effort covering 45 minutes. Max HR on the watch was 179.

On the 5K TT which was just 20 minutes my max HR got to 192. There was probably a bit more there on this one if I had to keep running for another 10 minutes and it was warmer.

On Sunday's long run I took a cliff shot jelly. Full of sugar and only took it just as I thought I might be tired, normally I don't feed on these runs under 20K. So the HR climbed massively without changing pace or effort, it was an un-natural climb and totally related to the sweet and the HR hit 195 which I actually trust as I was still running very steady easy cadence.

So I have some questions on this
Is a running MAX HR always going to be higher than on the bike (I expect it would be due to the load bearing impact) and would ~15bpm be unreasonable?

I was looking at the Kovanan calculation - it looks to be very similar to the calculation Garmin connect made for Max - Resting HR - is it using this formula?

Does 195 seem completely strange? It might be wrong but if it's consistently wrong then I can use it to set the Zones for running and use the bike max HR separately as Garmin connect gives this option.

It does make a difference on the App as say +178 is Anaerobic top effort which it isn't so will tell me I'm working too hard when I'm not at that effort level.
Also it will raise my Zone 2 Cap to 149bpm from 142bpm which would give me more room to pace up the LSR's

shotgunmcos wrote: »

First Max: 192 on the 5kTT but 195 on your steady LR. Something obviously up there. Are you using wrist based HR or HR strap?

It was all wrist based HR. So the Cliff shot kick in after 10/15 minutes and the HR shot up for no discernible additional fatigue or effort. I had seen this before after taking a shot of basically pure sugar when training for a half marathon.

shotgunmcos wrote: »

Next: 192 on 5k TT: your 20:58? You say you could have hit max with another 10 mins of running?! Either you were seriously under gassing the TT or you have a bit to learn about HR. Even if you hit your TT at 95% and finished on your knees thinking you could have got a little harder? If you straight away ran an all out 400m I bet you would see a new max. Its also possible you maxed on that hill and finished slowing down thinking you could give more...?

Yes 192 on this one. I was referring to something I had read where to get a true max HR you should be running flat out for 30 minutes where as my run was only 20. You are quite correct in saying that I had come up the hill and slowed down on the last 500m so there was more to give. I would have though another 5% was there, I wasn't on my knees panting.

shotgunmcos wrote: »

Next: Running HR zones are different to Bike HR zones. I used to get VO2 Max session from my triathlon coach that would near make me puke. I still wouldn't get within 5% of my max run HR.

This makes sense and is now what I have set up so the running max is set to 192 and the bike to 179

shotgunmcos wrote: »

Lastly:
It does make a difference on the App as say +178 is Anaerobic top effort which it isn't so will tell me I'm working too hard when I'm not at that effort level.

Also it will raise my Zone 2 Cap to 149bpm from 142bpm which would give me more room to pace up the LSR's

This would concern me. Even if you suddenly learned that your anaerobic threshold was higher than you originally thought, it would not suddenly mean you can boost your LSR pace!! :eek: Thats a recipe for disaster, even if, and I suspect its not, accurate HR readings. Add pace in segments and gradually to your LSR or better yet, enjoy running your LSR at lower effort knowing you are fitter.

On the anaerobic point my point was more in relation to when the watch had set itself as default with 176 as my MAX HR it will telling me that all my efforts were harder than they actually were. e.g. a Zone 3 tempo effort was coming in as an anaerobic effort etc. The new setting now is more reflective of the effort based on a higher HR MAX

shotgunmcos wrote: »

Also it will raise my Zone 2 Cap to 149bpm from 142bpm which would give me more room to pace up the LSR's[/I]

This would concern me. Even if you suddenly learned that your anaerobic threshold was higher than you originally thought, it would not suddenly mean you can boost your LSR pace!! :eek: Thats a recipe for disaster, even if, and I suspect its not, accurate HR readings. Add pace in segments and gradually to your LSR or better yet, enjoy running your LSR at lower effort knowing you are fitter.

Thanks for the concern :-) . So what I was really interested in was seeing whether there was a possibility of raising the Z2 cap that I try to keep to. If it is the case then I would see whether I could start to slowly up the pace of the LSR's. Currently all run at 5.30 m/k pace which is very comfortable. I have started putting more interval work into the routine now as last year was all LSR pretty much to improve endurance but I'll definitely keep mind that the improvement in LSR pace should come from the intervals rather than by increasing LSR pace by itself. The 5.30m/k is probably the bottom end of the pace bracket based on 5K pace so seeing if there was room to move there!

Thanks for the input, appreciate it. I have found using the Zones help me keep the easy easy and having a cap, although I don't follow it religiously does keep me in check and means I've built up the mileage and frequency in a controlled way.

My issue is probably more around the high intensity efforts when going past RPE 7.5 onwards. I don't have a good sense of RPE 8,9 & 10 and can easily hit a 10 when aiming for an 8 and then it's game over for me. I don't use HR for those types of set, more pace, but still it take a lot of effort to make sure I don't blow up on those harder shorter efforts.

Monday 1st - 7K with 5x strides at the end. Evening run and it was dark and cold but happy to get out.

Tuesday - Bike - hard effort, 45 mins

Wednesday rest - my watch beeped me saying it saw a pattern on my Wednesdays with very little activity - so less than 2,000 steps for the day.... This is what lockdown does, in normal times I'd be at 8,000 plus a bike commute every day..

Thursday - bike hard effort again, 1hr

Friday 5x800 - This was very tough. The aim was to run under 5K pace for these and thinking afterwards on why it was so hard there is definitely something there with doing 2 hard bikes during the week where I only had 1 the week before. 3:13 3:09 3:11 3:10 3:16 all under 5K pace but tough and I didn't have the right prescribed rest included and probably needed the extra 40 seconds. Except for the last one I was happy to have paced it fairly evenly and got it done.

Sunday 7th: Out a little later with the plan to put the tempo back into my long run. Wind was a big factor and had it in my face for the full 5K tempo section, bad planning! 13K with the tempo @~4:30 pace. Tired on the way home

This week I will keep the 2 bike sessions but have them as recovery spins only and take it easy but keep moving.

MisterJinx wrote: »

I think a quiet week did me good and looking forward to some more sessions over the next couple of weeks before the 5k TT

Famous last words! After that last session on the 15th I was again doing millions of sitting during the week and on the Wednesday my lower back tweaked again, disheartening.... It actually put me in quite a funk. I had to skip the planned session on Friday and I had a session planned for Sunday but instead got out for an easy 8K which felt fine but still wasn't great.

The following week my motivation was poor TBH and went out on Wednesday for an easy run and it felt terrible, HR all over the place, poor pace, sore back and was having a real moan in my head all the way round. By the next day I was wondering why I was bothering at all....My wife offered that I could get out on Thursday unexpectedly and I declined......

Friday the 26th, it was now either get back on the saddle or let another week slide. Decided not to let it slide. Out for a planned session which I knew was going to be really hard, 5x1K. The long intervals are just hard, no matter how you are feeling going into it. Out to the usual spot and got going, not expecting much considering the lay offs and hoping I could hold close to target pace for the full 5 reps. K's were 4:00 3:51 3:51 3:59 4:03 off 2:30 rest. I was delighted

The final 2 look off but on the final one I felt strong and was actually able to up the pace for a stronger finish, for some reason however the watch didn't stop the interval at the same place it had done for the previous 4. don't know why but had to run another 20 meters after stopping. Cost me a few seconds on the rep but I know how I was feeling and where it would have landed so was very happy all round with this and came home in a great mood. Confidence built....

Sunday 28th - 12K really easy. Did some loops around the park where I did the first 5K TT to see if there was a loop that didn't go up the hill 3 times. Found a better direction and start point so will use that. So many people out, it was great to see all the families on bikes and walking etc.

Tuesday 2nd March: Back for a session, stepped back a couple of weeks in the plan to repeat one of the sessions 400x5 (x2). I was expecting great things and the first set went well. Pared back the pace on the first one, second one was a little off but got the rhythm going 1:20 1:22 1:20 1:20 1:20 off 1:20 rest.

Was confident the next set would be just as good although running it in a different direction and like last time this direction is a little slower. On the 3rd rep I missed the start of the rep!! Was watching some kids on electric scooters eek - tried to catch myself back up which was a mistake and paid for it on the next rep too, I was shagged on the final rep. 1:22 1:24 1:27 1:30 1:24. A tale of two half's... Was disappointed with that second set, I though I would have been much more consistent.

But I did see something good when I came home and looked at the data. I had mentioned previously about trying to work on standing up straighter a keep the centre of gravity more aligned and not stretching into the pace but using the cadence to keep the pace up. Pic attached showing how the cadence has picked up from the same session with very similar times.