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Polish Mayor murdered on stage

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    #2
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    Thanks Batgoat, caught a headline in an app that aggregates news feeds the other day, but the article wouldn't load up for me.


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    #3
    Poll Dubh
    Registered Users Posts: 1,145 ✭✭✭Poll Dubh


    There's something rotten in the state of Poland. I started getting concerned when they rolled out the welcome wagon for Donald Trump.


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    #4
    joujoujou
    Registered Users Posts: 13,499 ✭✭✭✭joujoujou
    Unregistered Users


    I was born in Gdańsk, grew up in Gdańsk, lived in Gdańsk the best 35 years of my life. Mr. Adamowicz was the right person on the right place, he made Gdańsk greater/better/nicer than ever. Even being Mayor, you could meet him out and about, he loved to go out just to talk to us, to everybody who just was there and wanted to interact. Like ordinary person, yet so extraordinary at the same time.

    City of Gdańsk will never be the same without him.

    And I'd rather prefer not to say anything about current political situation in my home country, I just have a feeling the whole country goes downhill, regrettably.


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    #5
    Riddle101
    Registered Users Posts: 8,378 ✭✭✭Riddle101


    Crazy that the guy who stabbed the mayor was an ex-convict who shouted that he was wrongly convicted and innocent. Yet he shows his innocence by killing the mayor and being put back into prison. :eek:


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    #6
    wakka12
    Registered Users Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    Thats very gruesome and tragic. RIP.


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    #7
    Earthsnotflat
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭Earthsnotflat


    Yes, the murderer had obviously had a problem with judging his own actions as wrong, it's hard to imagine someone with right senses to commit such a crime. But what is worse is what triggered such action, and political climate created but governing party has a lot to answer. Hateful rhetoric just brought its fruits, not first time in history


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    #8
    ednwireland
    Registered Users Posts: 14,286 ✭✭✭✭ednwireland


    my mothers familiy moved there during WW2 so any family i have left are there visted the last years after a 16 year break and what changes what a great city

    RIP Mr. Adamowicz

    My weather

    https://www.ecowitt.net/home/share?authorize=96CT1F



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    #9
    AndyTheDude
    Registered Users Posts: 276 ✭✭AndyTheDude


    batgoat wrote: »
    A Polish Mayor known for his liberal views in contrast to the current ruling government was killed on stage yesterday.
    Horrible act no doubt. I don't think the mayor's liberal views had anything to do with it though. The perpetrator was previously convicted for bank robberies and has a long history of mental illness. He was being treated for schizophrenia while in prison. "Surprisingly enough" there's only one sentence in the quoted Indo's piece about it.
    batgoat wrote: »
    This is under a climate where the government has become incredibly right wing

    Actually, their social policies put them on the left of the political scene in Poland. Even if they were "incredibly right wing" as you say then I wouldn't see any problem with that at all. Apparently, according to some, there's only place for left wing parties in Europe. That's not how democracy is supposed to work though.
    batgoat wrote: »
    anti migrant
    Great. They have my vote then.
    batgoat wrote: »
    and attempted to hijack the judiciary.
    Complete and utter nonsense. Switch off your Euronews and go for a walk.


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    #10
    Captain Obvious
    Registered Users Posts: 4,165 ✭✭✭Captain Obvious


    Interesting parallels to Jo Cox.


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    #11
    wakka12
    Registered Users Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    Captain Obvious wrote: »
    Interesting parallels to Jo Cox.

    I was just thinking that. Theres something particularly distubring about it, especially because they were both well intentioned decent people


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    #12
    strandroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    Captain Obvious wrote: »
    Interesting parallels to Jo Cox.

    Yes, a disturbed mind picking up the signals of narratives playing out in the public sphere. "The judicial process cannot be trusted", "the liberals are to blame" in this case. He chose the liberal leaning charity event too while he could have attacked the mayor in the street on any other day with no security to deal with.
    Very sad. Just like Jo Cox indeed.


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    #13
    batgoat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭batgoat


    AndyTheDude wrote: »
    Horrible act no doubt. I don't think the mayor's liberal views had anything to do with it though. The perpetrator was previously convicted for bank robberies and has a long history of mental illness. He was being treated for schizophrenia while in prison. "Surprisingly enough" there's only one sentence in the quoted Indo's piece about it.



    Actually, their social policies put them on the left of the political scene in Poland. Even if they were "incredibly right wing" as you say then I wouldn't see any problem with that at all. Apparently, according to some, there's only place for left wing parties in Europe. That's not how democracy is supposed to work though.


    Great. They have my vote then.


    Complete and utter nonsense. Switch off your Euronews and go for a walk.

    Yes, the judiciary has been hijacked by the government. It's currently going through European courts, they also tried to force judges over 70 to retire because they wouldn't align with them. That's currently blocked by the EU. This is a fact. Yes they are considered rather right wing and they would be considered far right in most states. Their social policies are akin to the Catholic Church with the addition of the anti migrant position.

    Other notable events include members of the party marching with fascists last year..
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/11/11/polish-government-officials-march-far-right-groups-mark-century/


    So yep, I do find it of note when a politician who holds views that are the antithesis of the governments to be of note.


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    #14
    AndyTheDude
    Registered Users Posts: 276 ✭✭AndyTheDude


    batgoat wrote: »
    Yes, the judiciary has been hijacked by the government. It's currently going through European courts, they also tried to force judges over 70 to retire because they wouldn't align with them. That's currently blocked by the EU. This is a fact. Yes they are considered rather right wing and they would be considered far right in most states. Their social policies are akin to the Catholic Church with the addition of the anti migrant position.

    Other notable events include members of the party marching with fascists last year..
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/11/11/polish-government-officials-march-far-right-groups-mark-century/


    So yep, I do find it of note when a politician who holds views that are the antithesis of the governments to be of note.
    It would be better if the EU looked closely at the current situation in France for instance. Quite a number of people got killed during demonstrations there. Thousands arrested, water cannons on the streets just like when martial law was imposed in Poland in December 1981.
    Good old Poland is doing just fine, no need to worry about it.
    As for describing the annual Independence March as a "fascist" or "right wing" event, I am not even going to waste my time for that. It's simply beyond ridiculous.


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    #15
    Sonic Youth
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 193 ✭✭Sonic Youth


    I've been to Gdansk. Nice city.


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    #16
    Sonic Youth
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 193 ✭✭Sonic Youth


    batgoat wrote: »
    A Polish Mayor known for his liberal views in contrast to the current ruling government was killed on stage yesterday. This is under a climate where the government has become incredibly right wing, anti migrant and attempted to hijack the judiciary.

    Poland is great. You should go visit instead of bitching about their policies that have no effect on you.


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    #17
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    Captain Obvious wrote: »
    Interesting parallels to Jo Cox.

    Are you suggesting a "clean skin" was used?

    May I suggest you post here?

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=576


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    #18
    batgoat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭batgoat


    Sonic Youth wrote: »
    Poland is great. You should go visit instead of bitching about their policies that have no effect on you.

    I've got plenty of Polish friends that are concerned about the way things have gone in Poland. When politicians start getting killed, that's a matter for concern. When judiciaries are hijacked by the ruling party that's a concern. Your stance is akin to saying that the enabling act in Nazi Germany couldn't be criticised by non Germans since it was only national policy.

    But good try at glossing over serious issues.


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    #19
    Sonic Youth
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 193 ✭✭Sonic Youth


    batgoat wrote: »
    I've got plenty of Polish friends that are concerned about the way things have gone in Poland. When politicians start getting killed, that's a matter for concern. When judiciaries are hijacked by the ruling party that's a concern. Your stance is akin to saying that the enabling act in Nazi Germany couldn't be criticised by non Germans since it was only national policy.

    But good try at glossing over serious issues.

    Or how about you let the Poles run their affairs and stop being a lefty whinger?


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    #20
    batgoat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭batgoat


    Sonic Youth wrote: »
    Or how about you let the Poles run their affairs and stop being a lefty whinger?

    You don't think a government hijacking the judiciary is of significance? That's literally undermining democracy and is of interest regardless of if you're left or right wing..


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    #21
    mikhail
    Registered Users Posts: 3,863 ✭✭✭mikhail


    Sonic Youth wrote: »
    Or how about you let the Poles run their affairs and stop being a lefty whinger?
    Their right wing government is enabling the right wing government in Hungary by vetoing EU sanctions, and vice versa. So as long as we're in the EU, Poland's ****e government is a matter of some concern.


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    #22
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    batgoat wrote: »
    Yes, the judiciary has been hijacked by the government. It's currently going through European courts, they also tried to force judges over 70 to retire because they wouldn't align with them. That's currently blocked by the EU. This is a fact. Yes they are considered rather right wing and they would be considered far right in most states. Their social policies are akin to the Catholic Church with the addition of the anti migrant position.

    Other notable events include members of the party marching with fascists last year..
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/11/11/polish-government-officials-march-far-right-groups-mark-century/


    So yep, I do find it of note when a politician who holds views that are the antithesis of the governments to be of note.

    The over 70 years judiciary would have been active in the communist era, right? Or were they previously replaced.


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    #23
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    mikhail wrote: »
    Their right wing government is enabling the right wing government in Hungary by vetoing EU sanctions, and vice versa. So as long as we're in the EU, Poland's ****e government is a matter of some concern.

    Irexit? Join the British?


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    #24
    Sonic Youth
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 193 ✭✭Sonic Youth


    batgoat wrote: »
    You don't think a government hijacking the judiciary is of significance? That's literally undermining democracy and is of interest regardless of if you're left or right wing..

    Not my country, I don't care. But I think the real issue is that you are mad that there are countries in Europe that are strongly nationalist, don't want to be swamped with the dregs of the third world and will stand up to trash like Merkel.


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    #25
    strandroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    AndyTheDude wrote: »
    As for describing the annual Independence March as a "fascist" or "right wing" event, I am not even going to waste my time for that. It's simply beyond ridiculous.

    Sure, it's a family picnic.

    46219108_303.jpg

    _104268179_hi050543865.jpg


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    #26
    Sonic Youth
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 193 ✭✭Sonic Youth


    mikhail wrote: »
    Their right wing government is enabling the right wing government in Hungary by vetoing EU sanctions, and vice versa. So as long as we're in the EU, Poland's ****e government is a matter of some concern.

    Excellent. Long may they continue.


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    #27
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    batgoat wrote: »
    You don't think a government hijacking the judiciary is of significance? That's literally undermining democracy and is of interest regardless of if you're left or right wing..

    There are plenty of democracies where governments, or the people, or the parliaments can choose or reject the judiciary or impeach them.


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    #28
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    batgoat wrote: »
    I've got plenty of Polish friends that are concerned about the way things have gone in Poland. When politicians start getting killed, that's a matter for concern. When judiciaries are hijacked by the ruling party that's a concern. Your stance is akin to saying that the enabling act in Nazi Germany couldn't be criticised by non Germans since it was only national policy.

    But good try at glossing over serious issues.
    Why bother when that person only sees politics as sports, their reaction mimicking how a Real Madrid fan would react to Lionel Messi getting injured from a bad foul says it all. It's a sad state of affairs, but it is where we are - and their response to your post I have quoted here couldn't be a better example if they tried.


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    #29
    Captain Obvious
    Registered Users Posts: 4,165 ✭✭✭Captain Obvious


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    Are you suggesting a "clean skin" was used?

    May I suggest you post here?

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=576


    A what now?


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    #30
    batgoat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭batgoat


    Sonic Youth wrote: »
    Not my country, I don't care. But I think the real issue is that you are mad that there are countries in Europe that are strongly nationalist, don't want to be swamped with the dregs of the third world and will stand up to trash like Merkel.
    So you view hijacking the judiciary as okay? What view would you hold on the enabling act?
    Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »
    The over 70 years judiciary would have been active in the communist era, right? Or were they previously replaced.

    Was actually a reduction of the age of retirement to 65 from 70. It would have resulted in a third of supreme court judges retiring. The government could then replace one third of judges with those that they wanted in. The argument that the Polish government used was that it would allow for the removal of communist era appointments.

    The reason they're being brought to the ECJ is because the EU view the intent to be to undermine the judiciary and it violates two EU treaties.
    Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »
    There are plenty of democracies where governments, or the people, or the parliaments can choose or reject the judiciary or impeach them.

    Removing Judges in this manner within the EU? Nope, it's literally a violation of EU law. Controlling the supreme court to this degree is pretty unusual. There's a reason why it was referred to as a purge? I'm sure you can reference a similar situation to this one?


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    #31
    Lefty Bicek
    Registered Users Posts: 1,625 ✭✭✭Lefty Bicek


    batgoat wrote: »
    A Polish Mayor known for his liberal views in contrast to the current ruling government was killed on stage yesterday. This is under a climate where the government has become incredibly right wing, anti migrant and attempted to hijack the judiciary.

    In the first place, it's quite cynical of you to lump your agenda in there. None of your screed has any real prominence in the article you linked to.

    In the second place, as much as you are hostile to 'right wing', when Poland was soi disant left-wing, do you think you would have thrived ?

    Poland's has problems and issues to face, but the fact that it is a substantially mono-ethnic and mono-cultural society is not one of them.


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