Legalities of accessing your own roof

seannash · 09-01-2019 11:49pm #1

Hi,
As a homeowner what is the legal situation around accessing your own roof.

I have an extension with a flat roof which I can access for maintenance if I want. Our architect had originally advised that we can't have a roof garden on the extension which is fair enough but I'm wondering how much time you are allowed to spend up there.
For example could I sunbathe up there on a warm day (not that I sunbathe but you get the idea)

cnocbui · 09-01-2019 11:54pm

I would say the architect would be referring to planning permission not allowing a roof garden, you can do anything on your roof you want so long as it doesn't require planning permission and is legal. Sunbathing would fit both criteria.

seannash · 10-01-2019 12:00am

cnocbui wrote: »

I would say the architect would be referring to planning permission not allowing a roof garden, you can do anything on your roof you want so long as it doesn't require planning permission and is legal. Sunbathing would fit both criteria.

Thanks for the reply,
I figured that was the correct answer but wasn't sure. I'm kinda curious as to what would prohibit a unofficial roof garden then.
I've no plans to do this but bar the height restrictions in the necessary safety fencing what would stop me from using it regularly on sunny days

cnocbui · 10-01-2019 12:12am

The only thing that would get in the way of an unofficial roof garden would be someone complaining. Personally I would be far more worried about high winds dislodging things and the weight loading of the roof - if it was too heavy to blow away.

Stanford · 10-01-2019 12:17am

You cannot construct anything on your roof which would have the effect of increasing the height of the house and/or compromising the structural integrity of the roof or create a precedent for adjacent flat roofed dwellings

seannash · 10-01-2019 1:36am

Stanford wrote: »

You cannot construct anything on your roof which would have the effect of increasing the height of the house and/or compromising the structural integrity of the roof or create a precedent for adjacent flat roofed dwellings

Thanks for that,
The extension was built to take the weight of people on the roof as I have several skylights on the extension which I would need to clean.
In terms of increasing the height, the extension of about 7 foot below the top of the roof of the main house and currently it's the only extension on any of the surrounding houses.

Would all of the above qualify me to be exempt

seannash · 10-01-2019 1:39am

cnocbui wrote: »

The only thing that would get in the way of an unofficial roof garden would be someone complaining. Personally I would be far more worried about high winds dislodging things and the weight loading of the roof - if it was too heavy to blow away.

Yep this is something that also worried me and as a result would be the main reason I wouldn't be treating it as a permanent unofficial roof garden and more of a place where I could sit out on a rug if the weather was favourable

mickdw · 10-01-2019 1:46am

In my opinion, you do not have planning to be up there other than for maintenance. One obvious issue I can see is overlooking which would surely be a major concern to neighbours.

seannash · 10-01-2019 1:53am

mickdw wrote: »

In my opinion, you do not have planning to be up there other than for maintenance. One obvious issue I can see is overlooking which would surely be a major concern to neighbours.

I understand, and yes that's correct. I guess I was just asking in case of a good spell of weather is all.
In terms of overlooking I'm in a unique situation where by my extension is two stories (ground floor is a kitchen, top floor of extension is a bedroom) all of my neighbours who have extensions only have single story extensions. I'm the last house on a terrace and with a road separating me from the next section of houses.
I can certainly see down into my neighbours "garden" but it's dominated by an extension so there's no garden To speak of

seannash · 10-01-2019 1:57am

By the way I totally get that I'm pushing the boundaries of what is acceptable use but I'm kind of just asking to see if being on the roof a few times a year is an option. I have no back garden so the chance to lie out in the evening in some good weather is basically zero except for this.
Poor me right ðŸ˜‚

Doop · 10-01-2019 11:20am

seannash wrote: »

Thanks for that,
In terms of increasing the height, the extension of about 7 foot below the top of the roof of the main house and currently it's the only extension on any of the surrounding houses.

Thats not really the point... the point is you had planning permission to build an extension to 'x' height. Going above that would be contrary to the planning permission granted.

That said ... have at it I reckon we only get a handful of good days a year! however a double storey extension without a parapet sounds unsafe for having a glass of wine!

10-01-2019 11:21am

Just do what you want but I wouldn’t leave anything up there permanently for the sole reason of wind etc. The absolute worst that’s going to happen is someone busybody neighbor will complain to you. I wouldn’t even be thinking twice about going up there never mind asking about it.

murphaph · 10-01-2019 11:29am

Aniya Nice Varnish wrote: »

Just do what you want but I wouldn’t leave anything up there permanently for the sole reason of wind etc. The absolute worst that’s going to happen is someone busybody neighbor will complain to you. I wouldn’t even be thinking twice about going up there never mind asking about it.

That's not the worst thing that can happen. The worst thing that can happen is the OP falls off the 2 storey extension when rolling over for the sun cream.

abcabc123123 · 10-01-2019 11:45am

If, as it sounds like, you live in a terrace of old workers' cottages, I wouldn't worry about it. Several of my neighbours have built permanent roof terraces on their extensions and I plan on doing the same evenually. It's highly unlikely anyone will complain as your neighbours will want to be able to go up on their roof themselves.

It'd be different if you're in a leafy suburb and can peer down on your neighbour while she's sunbathing, but in an urban cottage nobody uses their yard for anything much beyond bin storage. I doubt the council would care much either.

incentsitive · 10-01-2019 11:48am

Once you are not sitting up their in your speedo's or letting it all hang out, I wouldn't complain on a fine day!

Grumpypants · 10-01-2019 11:51am

Is the extension to the side or back of the house? If you can see it from the road any change could fall foul of planning but at the back here no one can see it would be fine.

But if all you do is hop up once or twice a year to lay down then I can't see any issue.

If you want to put anything of significant weight or that could pond water it might affect the actual structure.

conorhal · 10-01-2019 11:53am

seannash wrote: »

By the way I totally get that I'm pushing the boundaries of what is acceptable use but I'm kind of just asking to see if being on the roof a few times a year is an option. I have no back garden so the chance to lie out in the evening in some good weather is basically zero except for this.
Poor me right &#55357;&#56834;

Well if what you're asking is how far can a skirt legallity then the answer to that is how likely are you to piss off your neighbours by doing so and how likely are they to complain.
Does your flat roof overlook other's properties that might object?

seannash · 10-01-2019 12:20pm

Thanks everyone for the replies.
Safety is definitely a concern even though it would only be the two of us up there but you never know how long I'll be here or if kids arrive sooner than expected.

I hypothesized a fold down gate that surrounds the edge which I could fold down and secure when not in use. I'd ideally like to put glass around it like you see on more contemporary roof gardens but I don't think I could argue that its there for safety during maintenance (Although that is what it is for regardless of what I'm doing up there)

In terms of neighbors I think I'll be safe in that regard. The property next door is rented on a very long term lease so I don't think my neighbors would complain as no objection was made to the height of the extension (Which shocked us)

Its town center so exactly as someone described although its a Georgian house over 3 levels (Tiny though) The extension is only 9ft wide by 16 ft long so we wont be having any wild parties up there.

cnocbui · 10-01-2019 12:40pm

You can always just do it and see what happens.

I can't help being amused by those who think frequent use of such a space for sunbathing or sitting on portable chairs is going to get a cease and desist from a council.

rgodard80a · 10-01-2019 12:48pm

I'd be more worried that flat roofs aren't designed to be walked on, especially if it's a torch-on felt roof.

Much more likely that the leg of a chair would poke a hole through the felt and you then have leaks.

Carlos Orange · 10-01-2019 1:00pm

cnocbui wrote: »

I can't help being amused by those who think frequent use of such a space for sunbathing or sitting on portable chairs is going to get a cease and desist from a council.

Maybe I'm reading too much into the title but asking if something is legal is very different from asking will you get away with it.

El Tarangu · 10-01-2019 1:06pm

I don't know if you ever envisage selling it, but if you were to stick up some of rail that was not strictly within the planning regulations, you could be creating difficulties for yourself if you ever wanted to sell it down the road.

(though you could always take down the railing before putting it on the market).

Spook_ie · 10-01-2019 1:24pm

Dublin City Council say no you can't.

http://www.dublincity.ie/main-menu-services-planning/frequently-asked-questions-planning#Can%20I%20build%20a%20balcony%20/%20roof%20garden%20on%20my%20extension%20without%20permission?

Can I build a balcony / roof garden on my extension without permission?
No - specifically excluded from exemption by Part 1, Schedule 2, Column 2, Condition 7.

(Page 156).

Can't find the document they are referencing though

EDIT found it

7. The roof of any extension shall not be
used as a balcony or roof garden.

https://www.housing.gov.ie/sites/default/files/legislations/planning_and_development_regulations_2001_-_2018unofficial_consolidation_annotated.pdf

Page 334

abcabc123123 · 10-01-2019 1:48pm

Spook_ie wrote: »

Dublin City Council say no you can't.

http://www.dublincity.ie/main-menu-services-planning/frequently-asked-questions-planning#Can%20I%20build%20a%20balcony%20/%20roof%20garden%20on%20my%20extension%20without%20permission?

Can't find the document they are referencing though

EDIT found it

https://www.housing.gov.ie/sites/default/files/legislations/planning_and_development_regulations_2001_-_2018unofficial_consolidation_annotated.pdf

Page 334

The regs say that, doesn't mean they're applied.

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/homes-and-property/new-to-market/stoneybatter-stunner-50sq-m-of-smart-homely-space-for-345k-1.3249883

Contra regs roof terrace on display in a national newspaper, still sold for 100k over asking.

Ray Palmer · 10-01-2019 2:15pm

abcabc123123 wrote: »

Spook_ie wrote: »

Dublin City Council say no you can't.

http://www.dublincity.ie/main-menu-services-planning/frequently-asked-questions-planning#Can%20I%20build%20a%20balcony%20/%20roof%20garden%20on%20my%20extension%20without%20permission?

Can't find the document they are referencing though

EDIT found it

https://www.housing.gov.ie/sites/default/files/legislations/planning_and_development_regulations_2001_-_2018unofficial_consolidation_annotated.pdf

Page 334

The regs say that, doesn't mean they're applied.

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/homes-and-property/new-to-market/stoneybatter-stunner-50sq-m-of-smart-homely-space-for-345k-1.3249883

Contra regs roof terrace on display in a national newspaper, still sold for 100k over asking.

They could have planning for that. It isn't against the rules to have a roof garden you just need to have planning which you can get.
The regulations allow for it. The cover what strength the roof needs to be to be used in such a way. Just because a roof feels safe and can hold a person or people doesn't mean it is safe as a roof garden. Adding plants and furniture may cause it to be unsafe

Ray Palmer · 10-01-2019 2:15pm

abcabc123123 wrote: »

Spook_ie wrote: »

Dublin City Council say no you can't.

http://www.dublincity.ie/main-menu-services-planning/frequently-asked-questions-planning#Can%20I%20build%20a%20balcony%20/%20roof%20garden%20on%20my%20extension%20without%20permission?

Can't find the document they are referencing though

EDIT found it

https://www.housing.gov.ie/sites/default/files/legislations/planning_and_development_regulations_2001_-_2018unofficial_consolidation_annotated.pdf

Page 334

The regs say that, doesn't mean they're applied.

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/homes-and-property/new-to-market/stoneybatter-stunner-50sq-m-of-smart-homely-space-for-345k-1.3249883

Contra regs roof terrace on display in a national newspaper, still sold for 100k over asking.

They could have planning for that. It isn't against the rules to have a roof garden you just need to have planning which you can get.
The regulations allow for it. The cover what strength the roof needs to be to be used in such a way. Just because a roof feels safe and can hold a person or people doesn't mean it is safe as a roof garden. Adding plants and furniture may cause it to be unsafe

jester77 · 10-01-2019 2:29pm

seannash wrote: »

For example could I sunbathe up there on a warm day (not that I sunbathe but you get the idea)

I highly doubt being 3 meters closer to the sun will make much of a difference :pac:

seannash · 10-01-2019 2:33pm

jester77 wrote: »

I highly doubt being 3 meters closer to the sun will make much of a difference :pac:

Hahaha Its more that I have zero outside space so this is my only option

seannash · 10-01-2019 2:38pm

Thanks again,
I guess the consensus is, its not legal to advertise it as a roof garden unless planning is obtained however occasional use is okay as long as no one complains of overlooking or me being up there.

In terms of erecting a glass safety fence, Id have to take it down if I was selling with no planning for the roof garden. It may also draw attention to it and as a result complaints might be made.

The weight issue, I'm not too worried about as it was spec'd for taking people up there as even though we knew we wouldn't get planning for a roof garden we knew we would probably go up there on good evenings just to look out over the town.

I think that's most angles covered

cnocbui · 10-01-2019 3:15pm

jester77 wrote: »

I highly doubt being 3 meters closer to the sun will make much of a difference :pac:

The micro climate caused by the roof heating the air near it is likely to deliver a considerably different experience than close proximity to cold ground.

Ray Palmer · 10-01-2019 4:10pm

seannash wrote: »

Thanks again,
I guess the consensus is, its not legal to advertise it as a roof garden unless planning is obtained however occasional use is okay as long as no one complains of overlooking or me being up there.

In terms of erecting a glass safety fence, Id have to take it down if I was selling with no planning for the roof garden. It may also draw attention to it and as a result complaints might be made.

The weight issue, I'm not too worried about as it was spec'd for taking people up there as even though we knew we wouldn't get planning for a roof garden we knew we would probably go up there on good evenings just to look out over the town.

I think that's most angles covered

You can't put up a fence without planning permission. The roof has not been speced for people because of access. A roof will by its nature be strong enough to carry people. The walls may not be strong enough for a fence either.
You are taking up information incorrectly. Planning is not just about selling.
Why don't you just apply for planning? You should have the drawings from the extension so easy to do.

Legalities of accessing your own roof

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