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Millionaire, should he switch?

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 40,102 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Riskymove wrote: »
    TBH, while I understand the concept I'd be happy to stick with my random selection of 1 from 3 and risk losing

    It will kill me if I had chosen the car and then handed it back based on the idea that I had improved odds


    they ran an experiment using this problem and pigeons and the pigeons learned that switching was the best option. Humans seem to be a lot more obtuse when it comes to a problem that contradicts what they think is obvious.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,381 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    they ran an experiment using this problem and pigeons and the pigeons learned that switching was the best option. Humans seem to be a lot more obtuse when it comes to a problem that contradicts what they think is obvious.

    I don't trust pigeons at all.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,100 ✭✭✭ectoraige


    In terms of how random the selection of wrong answers that the 'computer' removes, it strikes me that this could be predetermined by the question creators. The questions become progressively harder, so the effectiveness of 50:50 might be designed to scale too.

    For example, the first question is always extremely easy, but I'd imagine the writers would ensure that if somebody did have to use 50:50 at this stage, they would keep the most implausible wrong answer alongside the right answer. For the final question they could leave the most plausible wrong answer to make it harder for the contestant.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,492 ✭✭✭pleas advice


    A boat's a boat, but the Mystery Box could be anything! It could even be a boat!


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,201 ✭✭✭facehugger99


    A boat's a boat, but the Mystery Box could be anything! It could even be a boat!

    or a goat.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 40,102 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    kippy wrote: »
    I don't trust pigeons at all.


    you really should. they seem smarter than a lot of humans.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    It was 50:50 and the audience were fools.

    However, I didnt know he had stated originally he was thinking it was A - that was silly of him because it influenced the audience.


  • Posts: 17,381 [Deleted User]


    First few pages were painful to read. I truly hope that a site filled with programmers have explained that it's 50:50 and there is no more argument.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,018 ✭✭✭Ficheall


    Python code if anyone wants to experiment:
    import random
    import sys
    import io
    from contextlib import redirect_stdout
    
    # WWTBAM - 1 answer of 4 is correct. 
    # Contestant  mentally selects one of the four. 
    # Computer removes two random incorrect answers. 
    # Should contestant now switch?
    
    ######################################################
    # One iteration - prints STICK if intial guess 
    # was correct, SWITCH if it remains and was incorrect, 
    # and OOPS  if it does not remain  after the removal.
    
    def one_go():
        global stick
        global switch
        global oops
        options=['A','B','C','D']
        correct = random.choice(options)
        print('The correct answer is ', correct)
    
        guess = random.choice(options)
        print('The initial guess is ', guess)
    
        incorrect = list.copy(options)
        incorrect.remove(correct)
        print('The incorrect options are ', incorrect)
    
        for i in range(2):
            removed = incorrect.pop()
            options.remove(removed)
        print('The remaining options are ', options)
    
        if guess in options:
            if correct == guess:
                stick=stick+1
                print('STICK')
            else:
                print('SWITCH')
                switch=switch+1
        else:
            print('OOPS')
            oops=oops+1
    
    #######################################################
    # Prompt for number of iterations
    # Returns counts for 
    # stick (where you should have stuck)
    # switch (where you should haves switched)
    # oops (where your guess was removed at random)
    
    stick = 0
    switch = 0
    oops = 0
    
    trials=input('How many trials would you like?')
    
    junk='Invalid'
    while junk not in ('y', 'n'):
        junk=input('Do you want to see the output junk? (y/n)')
    
    for i in range(int(trials)):
        if junk == 'y':
            one_go()
        else:
            trap=io.StringIO()
            with redirect_stdout(trap):
                one_go()
    
    print('STICK=', stick)
    print('SWITCH=', switch)
    print('OOPS=', oops)
    #######################################################
    
    Output from 100000000 trials:
    STICK (better off sticking): 24997043

    SWITCH (better off switching): 24990445

    OOPS (your guess was removed during the 50:50): 50012512







    Somebody please hire me :(


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,713 ✭✭✭abff


    First few pages were painful to read. I truly hope that a site filled with programmers have explained that it's 50:50 and there is no more argument.


    It's only 50:50 if the contestant literally has no idea which of the remaining answers is correct.

    Of course, for higher value questions, the correct answer may be counterintuitive and the contestant may therefore have a less than 50:50 chance of guessing correctly.


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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,207 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    abff wrote: »
    It's only 50:50 if the contestant literally has no idea which of the remaining answers is correct.

    Of course, for higher value questions, the correct answer may be counterintuitive and the contestant may therefore have a less than 50:50 chance of guessing correctly.

    If he starts trying to intuit the answer then he is not "guessing".


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,657 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    I mostly remember 50:50 being marginally more useful than an ashtray on a motorbike.

    Any time I was down to two answers they were almost always the ones left after it.


  • Posts: 8,856 ✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    ....... wrote: »
    It was 50:50 and the audience were fools.

    However, I didnt know he had stated originally he was thinking it was A - that was silly of him because it influenced the audience.

    Yeah totally- that swayed the audience completely. Option A was Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy and Option B was Dracula (both books and question related to the opening line). The opening line sounded like something from a spy novel- but that in itself should have raised alarm bells contrasting it with something like Dracula.
    He messed up on the "ask the audience"- instead he should have chosen that option first and then completed 50:50 and see what the stats said without saying a word to the audience.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,713 ✭✭✭abff


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    If he starts trying to intuit the answer then he is not "guessing".

    If he doesn't know the answer and tries to figure it out, I think most people would refer to it as a guess. But why use a common word when presented with an opportunity to split hairs?


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,461 ✭✭✭✭Ush1


    abff wrote: »
    If he doesn't know the answer and tries to figure it out, I think most people would refer to it as a guess. But why use a common word when presented with an opportunity to split hairs?

    The point is that it's not a random selection process anymore.

    This nothing like the Monty Hall example at all. /thread


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,318 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    28064212 wrote: »
    So you're saying if there were 100 doors to start, the host opened 98 of them after you made your choice, you wouldn't switch because you still have a 1% chance of winning?
    This is where a lot of people struggle with dependent vs independent events.
    Of course the probability is 50:50 when looking at it in isolation, but when you look at the odds from the start (when you made your choice - important) then of course it is not an independent event but a chain of dependent events.


    The probability is close to 99% that you should switch in the scenario above with 98 doors opened.
    Ush1 wrote: »
    The point is that it's not a random selection process anymore.

    This nothing like the Monty Hall example at all. /thread
    +1


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,207 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    abff wrote: »
    If he doesn't know the answer and tries to figure it out, I think most people would refer to it as a guess. But why use a common word when presented with an opportunity to split hairs?

    If you want to tackle a problem statistically, then precision in framing the question is important. It is not mere semantics.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,713 ✭✭✭abff


    I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I'm not even sure that intuit is the correct word. I found the following definition online:

    to know or understand something because of a feeling that you have rather than because of facts or what someone has told you

    When talking about Millionaire, it's more likely that someone will try to figure out the answer through reasoning than by using intuition. At end of the day, if the contestant doesn't know the answer, then he's guessing, even if he might consider it an 'educated' guess.

    I think we're both agreed that the situation is not totally random and that, in particular, Monty Hall definitely does not apply when a contestant uses 50:50.


  • Posts: 17,381 [Deleted User]


    ELM327 wrote: »
    This is where a lot of people struggle with dependent vs independent events.
    Of course the probability is 50:50 when looking at it in isolation, but when you look at the odds from the start (when you made your choice - important) then of course it is not an independent event but a chain of dependent events.


    The probability is close to 99% that you should switch in the scenario above with 98 doors opened.

    Are we talking about a scenario where any 98 random doors get picked, meaning your own door only has a 1/50 chance of surviving?

    Because in Millionaire, I thought the person's thoughts counted for nothing when two answers get removed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,318 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Are we talking about a scenario where any 98 random doors get picked, meaning your own door only has a 1/50 chance of surviving?

    Because in Millionaire, I thought the person's thoughts counted for nothing when two answers get removed.
    We are talking about the example above of 98 doors opened, as an extension of the monty hall problem


    In millionaire your "door" can be opened if it's wrong, so the same process does not apply. This is why it's not the same as the monty hall problem.


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