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General Rugby Discussion II

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Comments

  • #6152
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,282 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    Former Former wrote: »
    At some point, rugby administrators are going to have to realise that this season is a write off and it's next season they need to be salvaging.

    Funnily nearly everything I see on soccer forums seems to be that this season needs to be finished. I think though ultimately money will talk.


  • #6153
    troyzer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,199 ✭✭✭troyzer


    salmocab wrote: »
    Funnily nearly everything I see on soccer forums seems to be that this season needs to be finished. I think though ultimately money will talk.

    Soccer, ironically, is much more under the pump financially than rugby.

    If they don't finish the season, they're in HUGE financial trouble.


  • #6154
    errlloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 12,599 ✭✭✭✭errlloyd


    Deleted User wrote: »
    This could accelerate the progress on VR spectator sports. I gotta go buy some stocks...

    I bought match.com shares at the start of lockdown here and they're up something deadly like 37% since. Figured Match.com owns tinder and people will buy tinder gold just to talk to someone, in a sexual way, or whatever.

    I suspect they're gonna dive soon though.


  • #6155
    Panda Killa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,384 ✭✭✭Panda Killa


    troyzer wrote: »
    Soccer, ironically, is much more under the pump financially than rugby.

    If they don't finish the season, they're in HUGE financial trouble.

    They reckon only 3 Premier League clubs are actually in a position financially to buy players this summer...that's scary esp seeing all the money that is pumped into the PL from all angles


  • #6156
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,282 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    troyzer wrote: »
    Soccer, ironically, is much more under the pump financially than rugby.

    If they don't finish the season, they're in HUGE financial trouble.

    The TV deal in English premier league is absolutely whopper and the clubs will lose out massively if it’s not fulfilled. Obviously rugby is far less open to that issue with a much smaller deal but I’d assume gates is the big issue which wouldn’t be affected too much by which season it is. That said knock out rugby must be the big payday I doubt Leinster will be too keen to give 40,000 people their money back for the Sarries game. They’ll be holding onto any hope of it happening.


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  • #6157
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,087 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Soccer players can afford to take a 90% pay cut if there's no club still in existence capable of paying them what they're on currently. Rugby players can only lose so much income before it becomes financially unsound to keep playing full time.


  • #6158
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    pickarooney wrote: »
    Soccer players can afford to take a 90% pay cut if there's no club still in existence capable of paying them what they're on currently. Rugby players can only lose so much income before it becomes financially unsound to keep playing full time.

    In reality they probably can’t, most of them probably are used to wages, have loans etc based on those wages so they could also go bust

    Just because they get more wages per month to me, doesn’t mean they are not broke come payday :-)


  • #6159
    bilston
    Registered Users Posts: 17,742 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    salmocab wrote: »
    Funnily nearly everything I see on soccer forums seems to be that this season needs to be finished. I think though ultimately money will talk.

    Football is slightly different because of promotion and relegation. What happens this season has a very direct impact on next season. As others have said because of enormous TV deals there will almost certainly be a push to get the various Soccer league campaigns finished even if it is behind closed doors.

    Obviously in Rugby there are certain things like European qualification and seedings etc which would need to be worked out, but accepting that this season is gone seems to be the most likely outcome. The promotion/relegation has already been resolved in England, it is obviously up to the French to decide what they should should do.

    Playing games behind closed doors seems the most likely outcome, but this will be a financial disaster. However the players and officials will have to be regularly tested to protect their own health and that of their families. I don't think we are at the stage yet where we can afford to give up tests to professional sports stars. There are others who need them more. Hopefully testing becomes more widespread in the next few weeks which would solve this issue.


  • #6160
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 14,974 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Panda Killa wrote: »
    They reckon only 3 Premier League clubs are actually in a position financially to buy players this summer...that's scary esp seeing all the money that is pumped into the PL from all angles

    Off-topic , but I did see a comment from a French MP in the last few days using Mbappe as an example. Earlier in the year Mbappe was valued at something like €180M on the transfer market, this guy reckoned that he might only be worth €30M if he was sold in the coming season due to the impact that all this is going to have on global sports revenue.

    His numbers might be a bit off , but very hard to argue with the underlying logic.


  • #6161
    bilston
    Registered Users Posts: 17,742 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    pickarooney wrote: »
    Soccer players can afford to take a 90% pay cut if there's no club still in existence capable of paying them what they're on currently. Rugby players can only lose so much income before it becomes financially unsound to keep playing full time.

    The very top footballers, maybe, but then you have to consider that they probably pay their agents and general entourage a decent wedge. A 90% loss of income would be hard to swallow for anyone.

    However they are unlikely to end up homeless which I think was your general point. Most rugby players will have mortgages like the rest of us.


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  • #6162
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,282 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    bilston wrote: »
    The very top footballers, maybe, but then you have to consider that they probably pay their agents and general entourage a decent wedge. A 90% loss of income would be hard to swallow for anyone.

    However they are unlikely to end up homeless which I think was your general point. Most rugby players will have mortgages like the rest of us.

    A lot of the players in Ireland have qualifications so for some of the lower earners a move to a normal job may become attractive.


  • #6163
    troyzer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,199 ✭✭✭troyzer


    I'd say the soccer players are probably better off than rugby players.

    But financially, you'd imagine the big national unions are more capable of taking this hit than top flight European soccer clubs who are completely hand to mouth with these TV deals.


  • #6164
    Buer
    Registered Users Posts: 24,175 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    salmocab wrote: »
    A lot of the players in Ireland have qualifications so for some of the lower earners a move to a normal job may become attractive.

    I'd be surprised unless they were let go by their province. It's not like the job market is going to be swimming with opportunities for someone with zero experience in the working world and, if it is, those jobs won't be offering anything more than basic salary. A lot of junior players would be on relatively small salaries for professional athletes but they're still making far more than they would if they were starting out in the working world.

    Someone like Josh Murphy who has a career in medicine awaiting him, might be an exception. He'd still take a wage drop but I'd imagine the intention is to start his medical career at some point.


  • #6165
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    Anyone following the Francis Kean story? It's a horrific look for Fiji rugby.

    Dan Leo of PRPW published a letter:

    https://www.pacificrugbywelfare.com/blog/prpw-world-rugby-nomination-francis-kean


  • #6166
    bilston
    Registered Users Posts: 17,742 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    Oktoberfest has just been cancelled. The relevance to this thread being that it runs from September to October.

    I think this gives us some idea of the prospect of the 2020/21 rugby season going ahead as normal...in short...it won't...


  • #6167
    Squidgy Black
    Registered Users Posts: 21,605 ✭✭✭✭Squidgy Black


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    Anyone following the Francis Kean story? It's a horrific look for Fiji rugby.

    Dan Leo of PRPW published a letter:

    https://www.pacificrugbywelfare.com/blog/prpw-world-rugby-nomination-francis-kean

    "Her last social media posts on the 27th of November said 'Off to bed now, see you tomorrow if I am not murdered in my sleep'. She was admitted to hospital the next day and passed away on November 29th."

    The Pacific Nations really need to be investigated and sanctioned by World Rugby at this stage. The stories that have been told for the past decade about military rule and the way the players are treated are shocking, particularly the French involvement.


  • #6168
    troyzer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,199 ✭✭✭troyzer


    bilston wrote: »
    Oktoberfest has just been cancelled. The relevance to this thread being that it runs from September to October.

    I think this gives us some idea of the prospect of the 2020/21 rugby season going ahead as normal...in short...it won't...

    If we're LUCKY, they'll be able to play the next season on time but behind closed doors for the first few months.


  • #6169
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 40,967 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    Anyone following the Francis Kean story? It's a horrific look for Fiji rugby.

    Dan Leo of PRPW published a letter:

    https://www.pacificrugbywelfare.com/blog/prpw-world-rugby-nomination-francis-kean

    Wow... Just, wow!


  • #6170
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 40,967 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2020/04/21/bill-beaumont-backer-convicted-killer-francis-kean-stood-world/amp/

    Kean has been stood down


  • #6171
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 14,974 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    Anyone following the Francis Kean story? It's a horrific look for Fiji rugby.

    Dan Leo of PRPW published a letter:

    https://www.pacificrugbywelfare.com/blog/prpw-world-rugby-nomination-francis-kean
    sydthebeat wrote: »
    Wow... Just, wow!

    Wow doesn't even cover it.

    The information in that letter is appalling , not just from a Rugby perspective , but just in terms of how pretty grim things must be in Fiji.

    Terrible.


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  • #6172
    errlloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 12,599 ✭✭✭✭errlloyd


    The IT and Indo leading with "stood down after allegations of homophobia".

    This is a guy who kicked a man to death at a party. Served 1 week of an 18 month jail sentence because he was well connected at the very top. Has presided over an awful period of intimidation and violence in the Fiji justice system. He's as corrupt as they come. It is not often I'd say this, but his homophobia (a trait shared by many players from religious rugby communities) is the least of our ****ing worries.


  • #6173
    Eod100
    Registered Users Posts: 11,632 ✭✭✭✭Eod100


    No mass gatherings including sports fixtures until August at the earliest, apparently. Don't think anyone would be too surprised by that. https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/coronavirus-all-mass-gatherings-in-state-set-to-be-banned-until-august-1.4234326


  • #6174
    swiwi_
    Registered Users Posts: 4,473 ✭✭✭swiwi_


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Starting to think this way myself unfortunately.

    There were no shortage of teams in financial distress prior to covid19, very difficult discussions around capital rationing will be ongoing.

    The best thing for rugby would be something that involves the RFU and the FFR taking over the clubs. Like they should have done in 1995


  • #6175
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    swiwi_ wrote: »
    The best thing for rugby would be something that involves the RFU and the FFR taking over the clubs. Like they should have done in 1995
    zero chance that happening. You would have less teams if unions had to take over the sides in top flight.


  • #6176
    bilston
    Registered Users Posts: 17,742 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    Eod100 wrote: »
    No mass gatherings including sports fixtures until August at the earliest, apparently. Don't think anyone would be too surprised by that. https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/coronavirus-all-mass-gatherings-in-state-set-to-be-banned-until-august-1.4234326

    Does that include sporting events behind closed doors?

    I wonder could the IRFU arrange an Inter Pro tournament to be based at the Aviva in late July/August. Play six games over 10 days to 2 weeks. Have all the top players available. Everyone plays each other once, so 3 games per province.

    Obviously the games would be behind closed doors, but maybe the IRFU could stream the games and charge a fiver or a tenner for the privilege to watch each game.

    Given we will have been starved of live sport I think a lot of people would pay the money. It might get a bit of cash flowing into the coffers.


  • #6177
    swiwi_
    Registered Users Posts: 4,473 ✭✭✭swiwi_


    The Lost Sheep wrote: »
    zero chance that happening. You would have less teams if unions had to take over the sides in top flight.

    I read that m French law prohibits wage reductions so French clubs still paying full salaries. Not sure if true. But if true then I could see expensive foreign players being let go at the end of their contracts.


  • #6178
    Squidgy Black
    Registered Users Posts: 21,605 ✭✭✭✭Squidgy Black


    swiwi_ wrote: »
    I read that m French law prohibits wage reductions so French clubs still paying full salaries. Not sure if true. But if true then I could see expensive foreign players being let go at the end of their contracts.

    It depends on how they're dealing with it from an employment standpoint, they might not have to pay them full salaries due to work commitments etc as they're effectively furloughed at the moment. Finn Russell mentioned it in an interview with rugbypass a while back but his quote was something along the lines of "we'll get a percentage of our salaries from the club or the government, I don't really know, but my accountants dealing with all that".

    There's reports that clubs are losing around €800K for every home game that isn't played


  • #6179
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 40,967 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    https://play.acast.com/s/therugbypod

    good chat with gus pichot here... some interesting ideas he was throwing around...

    i really like the idea of something like a real time hawkeye checking the offside line


  • #6180
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 14,974 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    https://play.acast.com/s/therugbypod

    good chat with gus pichot here... some interesting ideas he was throwing around...

    i really like the idea of something like a real time hawkeye checking the offside line

    The problem with using something like Hawkeye is that for an Offside Penalty you have to be both Offside AND Material to the play.

    So the right winger being offside on the far touchline when the play is on the left touchline is irrelevant to play. How would a tool like Hawkeye determine materiality?

    So not altogether sure what Hawkeye brings to the issue of offside that we don't already have covered with AR's or Tocuh Judges and Video refs


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  • #6181
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 40,967 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Quin_Dub wrote: »
    The problem with using something like Hawkeye is that for an Offside Penalty you have to be both Offside AND Material to the play.

    So the right winger being offside on the far touchline when the play is on the left touchline is irrelevant to play. How would a tool like Hawkeye determine materiality?

    So not altogether sure what Hawkeye brings to the issue of offside that we don't already have covered with AR's or Tocuh Judges and Video refs

    hes only muting it as a possible discussion point about the use of technology going forward... its a bit early to be dissecting it yet :D


This discussion has been closed.
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