Boy A and Boy B guilty

Infernal Racket · 18-06-2019 6:05pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

No he didn't....

I think he did, he just didnt plead guilty in court

punisher5112 · 18-06-2019 6:50pm

Gerry G wrote: »

I think he did, he just didnt plead guilty in court

He plead not guilty and lied the whole time!!! How is that admitting????

2Mad2BeMad · 18-06-2019 6:57pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

He plead not guilty and lied the whole time!!! How is that admitting????

You can admit to something but deny the charge against you. Court is basically politics. It's all fancy words. It's the reason the solicitors exist. There the TD's of the court room

Graces7 · 18-06-2019 7:28pm

RTE posted a detailled item re sentencing

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2019/0618/1056052-ana-kriegel-trial-what-happens-next/

Hardcharger · 19-06-2019 8:31pm

The barbarity cold calculation the denial of guilt and the age the boys makes this case uniquely disturbing.

These boys should never be released however they will probably will be out in their 20s after years of counselling one to one tutoring - they come across as very bright so they will do well academically - and good behavior - hard to misbehave if they are kept segregated for their own safety from the general population?

They seem to be on the extreme edge of the psychopath spectrum especially Boy A who is not only manipulative but extremely violent and a sexual deviant. They will simply be more dangerous when they get older.

That's neither here nor dare. We don't jail people for life and they will "rehabilitated" and free to go.

In confinement they will fantasize about killing again..

punisher5112 · 19-06-2019 8:35pm

The person found guilty of forwarding their images or those of family members can get up to 3 to 4 years in prison.

I actually find this so annoying as the limelight again is on the criminal and how they can be protected....

In the wild they would have to fend for themselves...

realitykeeper · 19-06-2019 10:33pm

laradevire wrote: »

Rightly so. Although I thought Boy B might be found guilty of manslaughter instead.

I think to be found guilty of manslaughter, he would have had to be charged with that and I don`t think he was. Besides, that would not have been an appropriate charge given that manslaughter implies a spur of the moment response and if he did deliberately lead her to her death, as the Gardaí and jury found, that would imply premeditation.

I thought he might be found innocent but then I was not on the jury. His father`s outburst did not impress me. The company he kept (boy A) was perhaps also an indication of Boy B`s character.

fryup · 19-06-2019 10:40pm

whats to stop some overseas based website/blog from naming them??? can they be stopped?

realitykeeper · 19-06-2019 10:43pm

GRACKEA wrote: »

I was so relieved to hear this verdict. Ana's treatment in life and also her horrible death really effected me. I was an awkward teenage girl myself and possibly saw myself or some of my peers in her. I certainly saw some of my male classmates' attitudes in these lads' comments about her. RIP and I hope her family can now grieve properly.

Indeed. This is so sad and I feel terrible for her parents. I think they are good people who did their best for her and loved her very much.

NSAman · 19-06-2019 10:49pm

DOn't know all the facts of this case but have been following some of it. Cold and calculating seems to be BoyA.... My heart goes out to the girls parents.. God love her, she seems to have had an awful time being bulled by her peers. Perhaps and I hope (but doubt) that parents of kids who knew her, will sit down and have a long hard chat with their own kids to stop this happening to any other child.

I know you cannot blame the parents always... but from what I have read, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

Not naming them is the ONLY saving grace these two scum have, i am sure everyone locally knows who they are. In my opinion, they should be named now that they have been convicted....

punisher5112 · 19-06-2019 10:49pm

fryup wrote: »

whats to stop some overseas based website/blog from naming them??? can they be stopped?

Dark web probably not but if you had the image or forward it then issues arise...

TCM · 19-06-2019 10:55pm

Strazdas wrote:

Not surprised Boy B was found guilty. He told lie after lie after lie under interrogation and seemed remarkably cool and composed while being questioned.

I'm actually very surprised boy b was found guilty of murder. No forensic evidence against him whatsoever. Also the jury asked if they could consider manslaughter charge. Judge refused.
I foresee boy b appealing.

fryup · 19-06-2019 11:01pm

^^^^^^

i was too to be honest....thought he'd be found guilty of perverting the course of justice, but not murder

he'll definitely appeal

realitykeeper · 19-06-2019 11:06pm

fryup wrote: »

whats to stop some overseas based website/blog from naming them??? can they be stopped?

I guess not, only Irish media can be stopped. I don`t know if Ana had living relatives in Russia. If so, are they likely to hear about her murder? It was a high profile case here but I think usually there is no contact between adopted children and their original families. If her birth mother is still alive, she probably thinks about Ana, wondering how her life is. That too, is very tragic.

ger664 · 20-06-2019 1:21am

TCM wrote: »

I'm actually very surprised boy b was found guilty of murder. No forensic evidence against him whatsoever. Also the jury asked if they could consider manslaughter charge. Judge refused.
I foresee boy b appealing.

fryup wrote: »

^^^^^^

i was too to be honest....thought he'd be found guilty of perverting the course of justice, but not murder

he'll definitely appeal

He knocked on her door and walked her 3K to the scence of her horrific death. Mage no attempt to stop it and when questioned told lie after lie.

Guilty by association correct charge and correct verdict by a very brave jury

Sleeper12 · 20-06-2019 7:58am

TCM wrote:

I'm actually very surprised boy b was found guilty of murder. No forensic evidence against him whatsoever. Also the jury asked if they could consider manslaughter charge. Judge refused. I foresee boy b appealing.

He played a vital role in it. He called to her house & talked her into meeting boy A. He eventually admitted that he was there while she was being attacked, sexually assaulted. He did not try to stop boy A & didn't run screaming for help.

Four armed robbers hold up a security van. One shoots someone dead. All four will be charged with murder.

At the end of the day the judge heard all of evidence. He will decide on their sentence. He has the option to go light on boy B if he feels it's the right thing to do.

My heart goes out to the three families. What a horrible case

20-06-2019 8:09am

BarryD2 wrote: »

The jury seemed to take quite a while to give their verdict which I thought was puzzling?

It showed how seriously they took the task. They obviously took great care to consider all the evidence before reaching their decision.

fryup · 20-06-2019 11:42am

ger664 wrote: »

He knocked on her door and walked her 3K to the scence of her horrific death. Mage no attempt to stop it and when questioned told lie after lie.

Guilty by association correct charge and correct verdict by a very brave jury

yes i know......but....technically he didn't actually physically kill her....so i'm sure they are grounds for an appeal

maybe some legal eagles out there can clarify this

SozBbz · 20-06-2019 12:32pm

fryup wrote: »

yes i know......but....technically he didn't actually physically kill her....so i'm sure they are grounds for an appeal

maybe some legal eagles out there can clarify this

You don't have to lay a finger on someone to be found guilty of murder. The prosecution persuaded the jury that Boy B knew what was going to happen (or at minimum, that something bad was going to happen to Ana) and he helped Boy A in his endevours.

Its called joint enterprise.

Like if you knowingly are part of a gang going to committ an armed robbery. Person A goes into the bank while Person B sits outside in the getaway car. The plan may not have been to kill anyone, but things go wrong, a struggle ensues and Person A shoots and kills a bank employee.

Both are guilty of murder because;
- they both knew a gun was being used, even if the original plan wasn't specifically to shoot anyone
- when you bring a gun into a robbery, there is always the chance that it may be used

Basically if you involve yourself in a criminal enterprise where someone may get hurt, but it turns out they actually get killed, you're also guilty of murder because its reasonably forseeable that such a situation may escalate.

Now Boy B may try to appeal based on the ability of any 13 year old to make reasonable decisions - who knows if that argument would work.

I think the jury came to the conclusion that at minimum Boy B knew something pretty bad was likely to happen, and lured Ana into Boy A's path regardless.

Infernal Racket · 20-06-2019 2:44pm

SozBbz wrote: »

You don't have to lay a finger on someone to be found guilty of murder. The prosecution persuaded the jury that Boy B knew what was going to happen (or at minimum, that something bad was going to happen to Ana) and he helped Boy A in his endevours.

Its called joint enterprise.

Like if you knowingly are part of a gang going to committ an armed robbery. Person A goes into the bank while Person B sits outside in the getaway car. The plan may not have been to kill anyone, but things go wrong, a struggle ensues and Person A shoots and kills a bank employee.

Both are guilty of murder because;
- they both knew a gun was being used, even if the original plan wasn't specifically to shoot anyone
- when you bring a gun into a robbery, there is always the chance that it may be used

Basically if you involve yourself in a criminal enterprise where someone may get hurt, but it turns out they actually get killed, you're also guilty of murder because its reasonably forseeable that such a situation may escalate.

Now Boy B may try to appeal based on the ability of any 13 year old to make reasonable decisions - who knows if that argument would work.

I think the jury came to the conclusion that at minimum Boy B knew something pretty bad was likely to happen, and lured Ana into Boy A's path regardless.

This is exactly true, guilty by association it's actually called I think. He knew what was going to happen, correct charge of murder. He's just as culpable as the killer

SirGerryAdams · 20-06-2019 2:46pm

spurious wrote: »

Local knowledge would suggest otherwise, but terrible case all round.

What do you mean? In regards to him knowing or him being clever?

walshb · 20-06-2019 5:09pm

Gerry G wrote: »

And rightly so

Very rightly so.

Bizarre twisted and depraved individuals

Premeditated massacre. Horrendous.

I really wanna' know who the person or persons will be that sign off on these two walking out of incarceration....

walshb · 20-06-2019 5:11pm

Gerry G wrote: »

This is exactly true, guilty by association it's actually called I think. He knew what was going to happen, correct charge of murder. He's just as culpable as the killer

I have read a fair bit on it, but is there a possibility that boy B also physically participated in the violence against Anna?

He certainly led her to her death....for that he is absolutely guilty. Even more so...

walshb · 20-06-2019 5:18pm

I found it very bizarre that both pled not guilty. It was so very obvious that they did it. Their parents? Surely the law and advice and all that is trumped by common decency and morals from time to time?

If that was my son, he would not be allowed plead not guilty, no matter what advice was given. He'd be disowned.

How could any parent have any genuine love for a son that could do that to another human being?

I'd happily pull the lever if the chair was available here...son or no son...

Also got me thinking about those who defend the "clearly" guilty......I mean, how could any defender stand up and defend these two? I wouldn't. It all boils down to doing it for money,....nothing else....defenders are not forced to defend this case or that, are they?

....... · 20-06-2019 5:24pm

walshb wrote: »

Also got me thinking about those who defend the "clearly" guilty......I mean, how could any defender stand up and defend these two? I wouldn't. It all boils down to doing it for money,....nothing else....defenders are not forced to defend this case or that, are they?

How do you know someone is clearly guilty until the case has been heard though?!?!?

Are you suggesting legal defense are Godlike in their omniscience?

walshb · 20-06-2019 5:25pm

....... wrote: »

How do you know someone is clearly guilty until the case has been heard though?!?!?

Are you suggesting legal defense are Godlike in their omniscience?

Come on...before trial starts the defense have all the details..

deandean · 20-06-2019 5:49pm

I reckon that not guilty pleas were entered for both in the hope that they might get off on some form of technicality.

Infernal Racket · 20-06-2019 6:35pm

deandean wrote: »

I reckon that not guilty pleas were entered for both in the hope that they might get off on some form of technicality.

Spot on Dean. There is no mitigating circumstances in Murder. If convicted you get life which is why so many of the cases are contested in the hopes of a legal team finding a tiny technical fault. Thankfully, the guards seem to have nailed this one

Infernal Racket · 20-06-2019 6:36pm

walshb wrote: »

I have read a fair bit on it, but is there a possibility that boy B also physically participated in the violence against Anna?

He certainly led her to her death....for that he is absolutely guilty. Even more so...

Doesn't look like it. Apparently there was no physical evidence linking B to Ana

Sam Quentin · 20-06-2019 6:42pm

walshb wrote: »

I have read a fair bit on it, but is there a possibility that boy B also physically participated in the violence against Anna?

He certainly led her to her death....for that he is absolutely guilty. Even more so...

Apparently not,.the poor girls 'DNA' was in a lot of places including on boy A.. but not on boy B

Boy A and Boy B guilty

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