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Wars of Decolonization and Northern Ireland.

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    #32
    jonniebgood1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,577 ✭✭✭jonniebgood1


    LordSutch wrote: »
    During the troubles and after the troubles, it has always been acknowledged that the Provo's had minority support within a Nationalist minority in Northern Ireland, .

    Do you have any source to back that up.

    The reason I ask is that their political wing had success in democratic votes suggesting more than a minority supported them.


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    #33
    HansHolzel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 996 ✭✭✭HansHolzel


    It is true to say that before the ceasefire the SDLP got more votes than Sinn Féin but this picture is complicated by the fact that in any straight contest between an Republican candidate and a Unionist, the Catholic population voted for the one linked to the IRA.


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    #34
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    HansHolzel wrote: »
    It is true to say that before the ceasefire the SDLP got more votes than Sinn Féin but this picture is complicated by the fact that in any straight contest between an Republican candidate and a Unionist, the Catholic population voted for the one linked to the IRA.

    You can provide evidence of that can you?


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    #35
    HansHolzel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 996 ✭✭✭HansHolzel


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    You can provide evidence of that can you?

    Bobby Sands MP

    Owen Carron MP


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    #36
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    HansHolzel wrote: »
    Bobby Sands MP

    Owen Carron MP

    Oh, of course, nothing skewed about those stats at all.


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    #37
    jonniebgood1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,577 ✭✭✭jonniebgood1


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Oh, of course, nothing skewed about those stats at all.

    The point is quite clear Fred. On several occasions Sinn Fein candidates got elected. That's popular support in anyones book.


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    #38
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    jonniebgood1 wrote: »
    The point is quite clear Fred. On several occasions Sinn Fein candidates got elected. That's popular support in anyones book.

    That wasn't the point.


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    #39
    jonniebgood1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,577 ✭✭✭jonniebgood1


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    That wasn't the point.

    The initial question was yours. You asked for evidence that the nationalist population voted for ira linked candidates. If Sinn Fein success does not answer your question then you will need to ask it again more clearly.


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    #40
    Jolly Red Giant
    Registered Users Posts: 3,434 ✭✭✭Jolly Red Giant


    HansHolzel wrote: »
    Bobby Sands MP

    Owen Carron MP
    the campaign to elect Bobby Sands was based on 'vote for Bobby to save his life' - 'lend us your vote to save Bobby'

    Carron got elected on a wave of revulsion after the death of Bobby Sands. Carron lost the seat to the OUP in 1983 (in part because the SDLP also stood a candidate). Owen Carron stood again in a by-election in 1986 and his vote dropped by a further 7-8%.

    The by-elections in Fermanagh-South Tyrone led to SF realising that they could take advantage of electoral politics which in turn led to the 'armalite and ballot box' strategy. SF's vote in the North was around 11% for three elctions in the 1980s and only began to rise to its present 26% after the IRA ceasefire. SF's vote has been consistently around 26% over the last 15 years indicating that it has reached its limit in the North (unless the SDLP disappaear altogether).


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    #41
    tac foley
    Registered Users Posts: 5,504 ✭✭✭tac foley


    How much of SF's vote was obtained by coercion is a matter of some conjecture. Walking to the ballot box or being carried because your knees don't work any more is some choice.

    Having an independent choice when the boyos come visiting your lonely little farm one night and having a 'wee word in your ear, just to make things clear' is hardly democracy as we know it, Jim.

    tac


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    #42
    jonniebgood1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,577 ✭✭✭jonniebgood1


    Quite the arguments against democracy lads ...


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    #43
    tdv123
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,292 ✭✭✭tdv123


    Support for the PIRA was usually biggest in areas that were most subjected towards the Loyalists & British Army campaign of terror against the nationalist community.

    A lot of people would have been afraid to show open support for SF during the war in case they were targeted by the security forces or the death squads. Now that the war is over people can express their true admiration for SF without fear of being killed or mutilated.


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    #44
    feargale
    Registered Users Posts: 8,636 ✭✭✭feargale


    Dr.Tank Adams wrote: »
    I accept it was difficult for the BA, but the fact remains that the PIRA could not have continued for as long as it did without at least the passive support of a majority of Nationalists. If you want to see what an IRA without any public support looks like, I would direct you towards the RIRA etc. They have almost no backing whatsoever (thank Jesus) and it basically cripples them to point where they can't do anything other than plant the odd small-scale explosive here or there.

    Passive support for PIRA surely presupposes a vote for Sinn Fein. That never came from a majority of Catholics while violence was the order of the day.


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    #45
    feargale
    Registered Users Posts: 8,636 ✭✭✭feargale


    HansHolzel wrote: »
    It is true to say that before the ceasefire the SDLP got more votes than Sinn Féin but this picture is complicated by the fact that in any straight contest between an Republican candidate and a Unionist, the Catholic population voted for the one linked to the IRA.

    A Westminster election is a poor guide to popular support, given the inherently undemocratic nature of the first past the post system. Much as I am opposed to Sinn Fein/IRA, I would be favourably disposed to voting for them in certain circumstances in a first past the post election, if only to show my disdain and disgust at that manifestly unfair voting system.


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