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BER Technical thread

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 52 ✭✭Count1


    Engrish, thank you for your reply. They really had me questioning myself. Much appreciated.


  • Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭paulclan


    Hi All,

    I have a house which I wish to dispose of soon. It has storage and convector heating under I think the ESB warm Home scheme of 10 years ago.

    Will it be possible to source clean electricity and avoid the DEAP penalty of a factor of 2.7 over other fuels such as oil (no gas in area except perhaps a Calor tank may suit if the building regs can be satisfied.)
    thanks if the experts can advise!!:D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 146 ✭✭Chimpster


    paulclan wrote: »
    Hi All,

    I have a house which I wish to dispose of soon. It has storage and convector heating under I think the ESB warm Home scheme of 10 years ago.

    Will it be possible to source clean electricity and avoid the DEAP penalty of a factor of 2.7 over other fuels such as oil (no gas in area except perhaps a Calor tank may suit if the building regs can be satisfied.)
    thanks if the experts can advise!!:D



    The 2.7 factor may have to be adjusted as we increase the amount of renewables used in our our fuel mix and as we improve the efficiency of our power stations but for now your stuck with 2.7.

    The only other way to improve the rating on the energy requirements side is to introduce PV, Wind or Micro CHP to help power the unit. All this comes at a cost and is site specific so you need to decide if you'll get the extra money on the sale price to cover the cost of the improvements.


  • Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭paulclan


    Thanks Chimpster,

    Looks like Gold Shield home will not fare out very well as regards the overall result of the BER!!

    I'll have to look at getting a letter from the assessor to explain the gain in replacing the system with another more CO2 friendly system.

    Seems a big penalty for homeowners due to inefficiencies in our power generation authority the ESB!

    thanks for your help,


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 146 ✭✭Chimpster


    paulclan wrote: »
    Thanks Chimpster,

    Looks like Gold Shield home will not fare out very well as regards the overall result of the BER!!

    I'll have to look at getting a letter from the assessor to explain the gain in replacing the system with another more CO2 friendly system.

    Seems a big penalty for homeowners due to inefficiencies in our power generation authority the ESB!

    thanks for your help,

    Yeah, goldshield indeed!

    Maybe in 2050 when our Energy Mix is 50% supplied by wind and biomass it will look like a great heating system. Or maybe it will be 50% Nuclear by then!

    Anyway, your assessor should be able to provide you with a specific improvement report which should highlight the improved rating if the current electric system was replaced with a tightly controlled wet system.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 166 ✭✭SilverBER


    If you did a BER assessment without actually publishing the results and then factor in some inexpensive improvements to see where the dwelling would end up. Gold Shield homes were speced for enhanced insulation to walls and HW cylinder (50mm - 70mm). They also were supposed to have enhanced heating controls such as room stats for secondary heating (combi units) etc so it might be worth while doing a little invasive work on an unseen part of the external wals to see what the construction is regarding internal insulation etc. It would not be expensive to repair such invasion or maybe you can do what I sometimes do for clients by taking off a light switch or socket and calculating the U value of the wall.
    It might be worth a spin - one never knows.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 52 ✭✭Count1


    Hi back again with another technical query!

    Doing a BER on a pre 1900 house. It was split into two units for a few years in the past but is now back to a single unit with one MPRN. So far so good. However thare are two gas boilers ( different brands) and two hot water cylinders (different lagging and sizes etc).

    Heres what I think so far: One gas boiler heats the larger part of the house therefore, I intend to put IT down as primary heating source. The second gas boiler heats the smaller part of the house and I reckon, I should rightly be inputting this as secondary heating heating source. Feedback appreciated!

    Where I think I am coming unstuck is the two hot water cylinders! How should these be entered? Should I use the one that provides for the larger part of the house? The only option is for entering one cylinder on DEAP. In a moment of absurdity I thought about adding up the volume of both cylinders and averaging lagging/insulation but this will greatly skewer figures in my opinion. Any thoughts will be gratefully received.

    Thanks in advance.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 52 ✭✭Count1


    No takers on my quaestion above?;) Not sure if that means it was silly question or a good question:eek: Have sent email to SEI and followed up with a phone call but no response yet.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6 buzymc


    Count1,

    "Where multiple hot water cylinders are present in a dwelling the average insulation thickness is determinedusing the weighted volume of each cylinder." I have taken this from the BER technical bulletin from April 09, if you download the pdf from the sei's website they give examples of calculations.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8 dibber


    I'm assessing a dwelling that I am designing and I want to put in underfloor heating in 4 zones. In the DEAP software in "distribution systems losses & gains" you are asked to input the number of of central heating pumps. Will I need 4 pumps, just one or none?

    Thanks.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 166 ✭✭SilverBER


    Based on underfloor heating systems that I have done in the past it is usually just one pump with a manifold split into 4 zones using motorised valves controlled by room stats in each zone.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8 dibber


    Thanks SilverBER. You might be able to answer this one too... I have solar thermal for water heating, do I list this again under "Renewable and energy saving technologies" in the "Fuel data" tab of "Energy Requirements"?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 166 ✭✭SilverBER


    This hasn't arisen for me yet but thats what we were told to do.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 52 ✭✭Count1


    buzymc wrote: »
    Count1,

    "Where multiple hot water cylinders are present in a dwelling the average insulation thickness is determinedusing the weighted volume of each cylinder." I have taken this from the BER technical bulletin from April 09, if you download the pdf from the sei's website they give examples of calculations.


    Thanks buzymc. Much appreciated! SEI have also come back to me ( over a week later) with what seems to be the same response. Great to have the feedback form boards.ie!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8 dibber


    Just checking a few things...

    If a living area is open to the stairs and first floor landing do you include this area in zone 1 - I seem to remember you don't

    If a house has closable trickle vents in the windows do you count these as passive vents?

    If I have a h/w cylinder that is .5 radius and .65 high what is the likely water storage capacity? (The volume works out at about .5m3)

    Cheers


  • Subscribers Posts: 40,722 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    dibber wrote: »
    Just checking a few things...

    If a living area is open to the stairs and first floor landing do you include this area in zone 1 - I seem to remember you don't

    If a house has closable trickle vents in the windows do you count these as passive vents?

    If I have a h/w cylinder that is .5 radius and .65 high what is the likely water storage capacity? (The volume works out at about .5m3)

    Cheers

    dibber... i dont mean to be facetious but if you were to receive direct answers to your questions, i would fear that you wouldnt actually learn anything... read the DEAP manual if you are unsure of things...

    but anyway

    1. you dont
    2. you dont
    3. The water cylinder volume should be calculated by recording both the cylinder height and the diameter of the cylinder. The volume (which applies to hot water storage only) is then calculated as follows:
    V = (pi x d2/4) x h / 1000
    Where:
    d = diameter of the cylinder (cm)
    h = height of the cylinder (cm)
    pi = 3.142
    V = volume of the cylinder (litres)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8 dibber


    Fair point Sydthebeat - I will go through the manual cover to cover. However is the volume not pi r squared x height? i.e. pi x (d/2) squared x h, not pi x d2/4 x h as you have suggested?


  • Subscribers Posts: 40,722 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    i agree that pi r2 h is the formula for a cylinder

    that formula is straight from an SEI technical bulletin....

    im going to assume that formula takes the spherical top section into account as well as the cylinder....


  • Registered Users Posts: 548 ✭✭✭joebre


    As r=D/2,
    then π r2 is the same as π D2/4.

    "Sorry but it is hard to get superscript to work here"

    I take the height of the cylinder as the tiop of the cylindrical bit and do not take account of the tapered bit on top.

    Joe


  • Subscribers Posts: 40,722 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    joebre wrote: »
    As r=D/2,
    then π r2 is the same as π D2/4.

    "Sorry but it is hard to get superscript to work here"

    I take the height of the cylinder as the tiop of the cylindrical bit and do not take account of the tapered bit on top.

    Joe

    thanks joe... maths not my strong point :D


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  • Registered Users Posts: 548 ✭✭✭joebre


    No problem at all.
    I think that they use Dsquared /4 as you have measured the diameter in your survey and it saves you having to divide it by 2 to get and radius and then square that !


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13 Ron09


    Im doing a BER for existing apartment build in late 90's. It has a combination cylinder fully insulated (hot and cold water stored ) how do i work out how much of its just for the hot water?? will i just go with half??


  • Registered Users Posts: 53 ✭✭zelemon


    I applied for planning in Jan 2007 & was granted it, i started building in late 2008 & am close to signing off on the final a/c. I am yet to get my BER done. Can I ask what should have happened? when should i have got the preliminary done & when should i get the final test?


  • Registered Users Posts: 14 nodenrg


    zelemon wrote: »
    I applied for planning in Jan 2007 & was granted it, i started building in late 2008 & am close to signing off on the final a/c. I am yet to get my BER done. Can I ask what should have happened? when should i have got the preliminary done & when should i get the final test?
    My understanding is you should have done your preliminary before starting on site - building control have a right to ask you to produce it - and you should get your full one before occupation.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5 drocklen1985


    Good Morning,

    Bloody great start to my day means i have been attacked very successfully by the 'avenger' virus, rendering my computer completely useless.

    I am in dire need of IT help this morning.

    How can I recover the XML files from the program files of the DEAP from the hard-drive i have rescued and attached to another computer.

    I can locate any exported xml files, no luck with anything else. BTW I use the DEAP for design purposes so the need for me to export them is rare.

    Are these files unobtainable now> I would appreciate any advice or help.


  • Subscribers Posts: 40,722 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Good Morning,

    Bloody great start to my day means i have been attacked very successfully by the 'avenger' virus, rendering my computer completely useless.

    I am in dire need of IT help this morning.

    How can I recover the XML files from the program files of the DEAP from the hard-drive i have rescued and attached to another computer.

    I can locate any exported xml files, no luck with anything else. BTW I use the DEAP for design purposes so the need for me to export them is rare.

    Are these files unobtainable now> I would appreciate any advice or help.

    as far as i understand it, deap doesn't create xml files until they are exported.
    until then data is stored in the local SQL server database. Ive no idea where thats located though, maybe you could do a search.
    even if you find it, ive no idea how you can access it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 637 ✭✭✭Rabbo


    My (limited) understanding is that the data is saved as an SDF file at the following location:
    C:\Program Files\SEAI DEAP 3.2.1\DB

    I'm running XP but newer versions of windows have a different location for the Program Files.

    I have two SDF files at that location - DEAP_BLANK.sdf and DICT.sdf

    I would try the following:
    Download and install DEAP onto your new computer
    Search for the above named files on your old hard drive. If you find them replace the SDF files on your new computer with them.
    Run DEAP and hope for the best

    Let us know how you get on


  • Registered Users Posts: 5 drocklen1985


    thanks very much indeed!

    will give that a whirl and keep ya'll posted.


  • Registered Users Posts: 412 ✭✭MOTM


    Rabbo wrote: »
    My (limited) understanding is that the data is saved as an SDF file at the following location:
    C:\Program Files\SEAI DEAP 3.2.1\DB

    I'm running XP but newer versions of windows have a different location for the Program Files.

    I have two SDF files at that location - DEAP_BLANK.sdf and DICT.sdf

    I would try the following:
    Download and install DEAP onto your new computer
    Search for the above named files on your old hard drive. If you find them replace the SDF files on your new computer with them.
    Run DEAP and hope for the best

    Let us know how you get on


    The files under C:\Program Files\SEAI DEAP 3.2.1\DB are unchanged since the program is first installed so do not appear to be updated every time you create a DEAP record (i.e. its not that folder you're looking for).

    Check with the BER helpdesk, but it should be the file DEAPv321.SDF file in the "C:\ProgramData\SEI DEAP 3" folder. Folders in ProgramData might be hidden though so you'd have to unhide those first.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 71 ✭✭BERmad


    Hi does anyone know the best way to get old DEAP files onto a new computer.
    I got a new PC but dont know how to get the data over. Does the above method work?


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